Diablo® III

crusader

if you want my opinion on crusader
1st add more different (fire for me) runes in various skills or in general more choices for specific type damage since most are holy and we cant work on diferent builds
2st add scaling block ammount on shields this had to be done in d3 vanila also
3rd add resource gain when blocking so we can cast skills easier like all other classes allthough i got a great armor that helps a lot i still cant do the big skills
4th and final add some damage boost to the wrath spending skills like the hammers cause all other classes secondary skill does more %
thanks again
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04/04/2014 13:53Posted by Zelas
I am sorry but if you equip shield on monk, the monk will be able to tank better when the 30% dmg reduction is taken into account the monk will also do way more dps.


I am sorry, but if I do that, I will also take a 30% DPS hit as well.

Besides, thanks to that shield from caches which reduces damage from blocked attacks by 60%, Crusaders can become nigh indestructible, since it takes very little effort for them to have high block percentage as opposed to Monks/Barbs.

My Crusader friend got this shield and he is almost indestructible in T3, yes I do more dommag!11 with my Monk, but when it comes to taking heat I'm like a rollercoaster, while he is like a damn rock. Really for every time he dies - I die like 2-3 times.

Also, his damage is not horrible really, it's okay.


I am sure there are a bunch of legendaries having the same effect on a monk
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Community
Posts: 2,795
04/04/2014 14:13Posted by Pinpoint
I guess this patch would be before the next major patch?


Yes, although I cannot say if there will be additional smaller patches before the big content patch
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04/04/2014 13:53Posted by Vaneras
and will a blue confirm anything????

While I can't share any specific details right now, we have been monitoring the performance of the different classes since launch and we do have some adjustments planned for all classes that will be implemented in an upcoming patch. In the upcoming patch notes, the Crusader will likely be listed with the most adjustments of all the classes.


Good guy Vaneras, helpful on Diablo forums and SC forums :)

Thanks for the update!
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I think this thread somewhat derailed in comparing tanking capabilities. However you look at it, the crusader does less damage via skills overall. That this could be offset by his toughness alone (which is rather good, lets be honest) is nonsense. If you go ranged crusader you could easily spec yourself to be not very tough, while still in no way resembling the damage output of a wizard or DH.

Crusaders are awesome, but definitely deserve some love in the DPS department.
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Praise the blue post :) Thanks for the update Veneras, looking forward for this awesome crusader getting his deserved attention. Want to see what he'is really capable of. Hope the patch hits sooner rather then later.
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Great news on a Friday, for sure. Looking forward to reading (and then complaining) about the patch notes!
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04/04/2014 13:53Posted by Zelas

Besides, thanks to that shield from caches which reduces damage from blocked attacks by 60%, Crusaders can become nigh indestructible, since it takes very little effort for them to have high block percentage as opposed to Monks/Barbs.


Now if you only could block all the elemental attacks....

But since you can not do that, the whole defensive concept of the Crusader is what... a 4 second shield wall on a 30 second CD?
A passive that reduces magical damage taken by 5 (Five!!) percent?
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04/04/2014 15:37Posted by Marwynn
Great news on a Friday, for sure. Looking forward to reading (and then complaining) about the patch notes!


I'm also positively surprised that there is any feedback at all, but i am not sure if this is good news.

Basically he said that there will be a lots of changes in the next big patch. And this will likely take months before it gets released.

So do you want to keep on playing the Crusader in this state for several months?
I don't.
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04/04/2014 13:53Posted by Vaneras
and will a blue confirm anything????

While I can't share any specific details right now, we have been monitoring the performance of the different classes since launch and we do have some adjustments planned for all classes that will be implemented in an upcoming patch. In the upcoming patch notes, the Crusader will likely be listed with the most adjustments of all the classes.
Does it mean that Demon Hunters will be insta nerfed into the ground again, now that they're playable again after long 1.5 years?
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04/04/2014 13:53Posted by Vaneras
In the upcoming patch notes, the Crusader will likely be listed with the most adjustments of all the classes.


well all you need to do now is shake your keys and there will be happy crusaders everywhere... until they find out theyre getting nerfed for any reason imaginable!
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Hello Veneras.

I hope this means crusader passives are going to be looked into, we are currently being pidgeon holed into using heavenly strength due to the 2hander dps and toughness different between 2h and 1hs and also the lack of paragon and gear movement speed effecting the movement penalty.

Effective it means we are level 70 crusaders limited to a level 60 passive number selection, as Heavenly strength is mandatory we only have 3 other slots to mix and match with, if you don't take heavenly strength you lose to much dps and toughness and currently we have no reason to even take a 1hander over said 2handers.

I'm sure the devs would argue its to much of a bonus to have paragon and gear movement to reduce the effect but if you paragon out the movement speed you give up DPS, if you take gear movement speed bonus you give up another favourable primary stat.

Also the passive vigilant, its 5% to all non physical damage sources and health regeneration...well this would be all good and well if we had 30% class damage reduction and finery was still +resistance all as it was in beta and not strength as it is now. I would hope the developers would change this to get rid of the health regeneration and make it similar to the barbarians supersition passive which gives 20% reduction to magic and ranged and adds 2 fury, this could easily be changed to wrath and sort out the issue of our primary attacks not giving enough wrath gen.

We also have alot of passives which practically do the same job, we have atleast 5 which add to defense but all do a very similar job to each other, a few could be combined into 4 to make a tank like crusader IF heavenly strength wasn't mandatory.

The class as a whole currently does less damage on wrath spenders than any other class ingame, we are slower than any other class ingame and currently we take quite abit more damage than most other classes ingame from magic/ranged sources especially when we don't have 30% reduction class bonus which I don't think because we have a shield and can use 2hander in one hand warrants not having it.

I do have the ask why the crusader near end of beta which was pretty good and had better passives, wrath spenders with better damage%s and other various bits was nerfed into the release version of the crusader.

I also hope the developers would take note that alot of builds are coming out which require a specific legendaries to make the build work. No its not fine when a class is on the crutch of legendaries to make the class work, a class should be able to stand upon its own feet and do things which the other 4 classes get easily without requiring to hunt and search for specific legendary, thats a scapegoat to bad game design.
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04/04/2014 13:53Posted by Vaneras
and will a blue confirm anything????

While I can't share any specific details right now, we have been monitoring the performance of the different classes since launch and we do have some adjustments planned for all classes that will be implemented in an upcoming patch. In the upcoming patch notes, the Crusader will likely be listed with the most adjustments of all the classes.


Cool! Thx!
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I'm glad the EU community managers can take some time to respond to this.

We've been discussing this in the NA region, and there is not and should not be a tank class. The crusader should, like every other class have it's own unique abilities to survive, and do damage so that it is viable in a group and alone.
We shouldn't be lagging behind the group, doing very little damage, and rarely "tanking" in an MMO holding aggro sense.
There is no place for a tank class in Diablo and there should absolutely not be. Sure there are differences between a melee and a ranged and they can provide some tank like tactics/skills, but it is not and should not be the defining mechanic, role, and basis for skill options and damage. It's not fair to anyone that wants to play solo, and it's not fair to the other classes to suddenly have a required tanking role... Crusader needs to keep up with the other classes in all respects - damage, survivability, etc. There can be some mild differences of course, but the gap right now between the crusader damage is reprehensible to any other class, and their survivability, unless perfectly equipped, is typically less than any other class.
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right now any ranged spellcaster is the bane of my existence as a crusader, and i stack full resist gems whenever i can.

ran into elite succubi with a group of elite buggs that spawn bees, and it was literally a nightmare from hell. I was ghetting KO'd when popping all the defensives I could, and still finding I was getting ruined, because crusader's mitigation relies on blocking things that can be blocked (projectiles such as bullets and arrows, and melee attacks) they are far too squishy when it comes to ranged mobs that shoot things that cannot be blocked.

I believe that crusaders don't need 30% damage reduction when it comes to melee and bullet attacks, but when it comes to spell damage taken, they require it.
Edited by Calderath#1604 on 04/04/2014 17:15 BST
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04/04/2014 11:00Posted by Dragonuk1986
Can a blue rep confirm if the crusader's damage has been fixed at all? if not do you have a timescale on when?

I really want to play crusader but the way it is at moment its unbearable


Dude I got to 70 in 3 days, and I can already destroy Torment only 2 days after hitting 70.

Crusader is fine. They'll make some minor changes (cooldown on horse is too long, etc) but nothing major needs to be done.

What is your problem? Do you understand how to itemize in Diablo? What level are you?

Ignore sheet dps. That number lies to you.

Are you complaining just because your sheet dps is lower than wizard?

I assure you we can put out just as much dps, it just doesn't look that way on your number sheet.
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04/04/2014 17:14Posted by Calderath
right now any ranged spellcaster is the bane of my existence as a crusader, and i stack full resist gems whenever i can.

ran into elite succubi with a group of elite buggs that spawn bees, and it was literally a nightmare from hell. I was ghetting KO'd when popping all the defensives I could, and still finding I was getting ruined, because crusader's mitigation relies on blocking things that can be blocked (projectiles such as bullets and arrows, and melee attacks) they are far too squishy when it comes to ranged mobs that shoot things that cannot be blocked.

I believe that crusaders don't need 30% damage reduction when it comes to melee and bullet attacks, but when it comes to spell damage taken, they require it.


What are your resists at? What is your armor at? What passives are you using? How good is the block rate and block amount on your shield?

I'm not having any trouble at all. I can facetank almost anything in torment 1 without even paying attention, and I've barely been 70 for 2 days.
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04/04/2014 17:02Posted by xepharalon
I'm glad the EU community managers can take some time to respond to this.

We've been discussing this in the NA region, and there is not and should not be a tank class. The crusader should, like every other class have it's own unique abilities to survive, and do damage so that it is viable in a group and alone.
We shouldn't be lagging behind the group, doing very little damage, and rarely "tanking" in an MMO holding aggro sense.
There is no place for a tank class in Diablo and there should absolutely not be. Sure there are differences between a melee and a ranged and they can provide some tank like tactics/skills, but it is not and should not be the defining mechanic, role, and basis for skill options and damage. It's not fair to anyone that wants to play solo, and it's not fair to the other classes to suddenly have a required tanking role... Crusader needs to keep up with the other classes in all respects - damage, survivability, etc. There can be some mild differences of course, but the gap right now between the crusader damage is reprehensible to any other class, and their survivability, unless perfectly equipped, is typically less than any other class.


There's no holy trinity in Diablo, this isn't world of warcraft.

In Diablo there are no Tanks and no Healers. Everybody is damage. There's only ranged damage and melee damage.

Crusader is hybrid melee-ranged damage.

I assure you that I'm putting out !@#$ tons of damage, having no problem.

Post your Crusader profile and I'll help you build better.
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@Zaphod42 Given your gear i find it hard to believe (profile doesnt show shield though)
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04/04/2014 17:51Posted by Crystyn
@Zaphod42 Given your gear i find it hard to believe (profile doesnt show shield though)


Its a recent bug, you can still mouse over the name to see it, the icon just doesn't show.

I assure you my items are kicking butt. I have over +50% fire damage.

Why is your crusader naked? Don't want us criticizing your build?
Edited by zaphod42#1712 on 04/04/2014 18:05 BST
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