Diablo® III

Ways to scale GRIFTS without flat HP/DMG increases

Hi, lots of people are annoyed by the rather uninspired "moreHP, more damage" style of scaling the greater rifts have at the harder levels. People are suggesting here and there other ways it would be possible to scale the difficulty of the greater rifts without simply making things live longer and hit harder.

Lets make a compilation of these ideas here, so that after the weekend, Vaneras has a nice easy link to give to the 'higher ups' with any/all of the good alternatives. Nobody wants trillion HP rift guardians. It will also make the repeat grind somewhat tedious when it is literally just "more of the same".

Sooo. Pop your ideas into the thread, I'll try to edit them into the OP.

So far:

1) Increase mobs mitigation
2) Populate the rift more densely and require more mobs to be killed in the same amount of time;
3) Make the rifts larger with the same density but *still* require more mobs killed in the same amount of time;
4) Increased the base movement speed of the mobs,
5) Increased the base attack speed of mobs;
6) Given extra affixes to elite and champion packs (5 affix horde mobs anyone?),
7) Given white mobs affixes,
8) Used a more deadly combinations of mobs (no more act1 zombie dreams or stygian crawlers),
9) Make a more hostile environment to rift in (random arcane sentries just popping up),
10) Increase the duration of mob crowd control effects on the player
11) Player death results in the closing of the rift
12) Give mobs (white, elite or champion) boss abilities, like sandstorm, locusts, summoning adds
13) Increase the ratio of white mobs: elite packs so eventually you're facing an epilepsy inducing sea of pulsing blue and golden demons
14) Super-rares or even act bosses midway through the rift

So please, let's hear all your ideas so that with a grain of luck we won't end up with hurr durr "And then it goes up by another 10%" style difficulty curves. That would be dull. It might well be what we're getting; but I don't think Blizz really want trillion HP mobs in the game either, it screws with their code and you end up spawning mobs with a bigger HP pool than they can actually have max health (so they start with fractions of their max HP)...

Your turn :)
Edited by Aeneas#2115 on 06/07/2014 16:10 BST
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no 2,3,6,8,9,11 -> good ones
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dont like hostile enviroment. Do like white affixes, as long as its just the normal "minion possible" affixes without arcane sentry..(hate it. sorry.)

like rift close on player death most i think. would really force you to pay attention.
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Oh these are just ideas, I want ti hear *more* :D
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- higher % elites. above a certain threshold, you'll only see see elites. at lvl 1, they're not even there.
- add superuniques. those might work just like elite packs, but i think they will be a bigger time investment, and hard to just leave behind.(I think this is a good idea with rifts anyway, not just grifts.)
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Added :)
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Tho some of these ideas are actually good for a change just try to imagine the work it would take compared to scaling hp/dmg. So sad but true its unlikely we get anything else than hp/dmg scaling.

Just remember inferno, mp and now torments always the same and every time people cried about the scaling and tho (boring solution) it did turn out alright.
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06/07/2014 16:32Posted by Plagueis
Just remember inferno, mp and now torments always the same and every time people cried about the scaling and tho (boring solution) it did turn out alright.


Inferno underwent many changes that weren't limited to simply "HP and damage" though didn't it...
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06/07/2014 16:55Posted by Aeneas
Inferno underwent many changes that weren't limited to simply "HP and damage" though didn't it...


Well yeah inferno received way more balancing thats correct however MP was entirely hp/dmg scaling problem like we have now.
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IIRC, monster got increase move/att speed, more boss affixes of course(per diff level, normal=1, nightmare=2, hell=3 inferno=4), and the # of affixes is still based on level,, orgins of that division.
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06/07/2014 18:27Posted by Gloweye
IIRC, monster got increase move/att speed, more boss affixes of course(per diff level, normal=1, nightmare=2, hell=3 inferno=4), and the # of affixes is still based on level,, orgins of that division.


monsters with more move/atk speed is even worse. Anyone remember act 3 soul lashers in the good old inferno days? Ultra fast you couldn't outrun them and attack so fast you died in seconds. Good luck killing that with lets say arcane torrent.
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06/07/2014 18:32Posted by Plagueis
monsters with more move/atk speed is even worse. Anyone remember act 3 soul lashers in the good old inferno days? Ultra fast you couldn't outrun them and attack so fast you died in seconds. Good luck killing that with lets say arcane torrent.


But more interesting than just scaling HP, no?

Soul Lashers are already fast, with Fast affix they are super; but why not have these challenges, so you have to decide who is CCing them so they can be burned down before they swarm all over you...
Edited by Aeneas#2115 on 06/07/2014 18:35 BST
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06/07/2014 18:35Posted by Aeneas
But more interesting than just scaling HP, no?

Soul Lashers are already fast, with Fast affix they are super; but why not have these challenges, so you have to decide who is CCing them so they can be burned down before they swarm all over you...


I heard works out for solo play pretty well and you are not forced to any specific skills...No seriously while I get that current grifts scale too heavily most of the communities ideas are far worse.

Blizz can still tweak their numbers so I'd rather let them do it than ideas like atk/move speed scaling or more elites or bringing back affixes like invulnerable.
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06/07/2014 18:56Posted by Plagueis
I heard works out for solo play pretty well


Wait, every class doesn't have access to CC? Whats wrong with encouraging a different build than "whichever can do the most damage"?

I get that a lot of these ideas would be difficult to implement and maybe simply saying "Lets trust blizzard to tweak the numbers appropriately rather than trust them with anything too involved" would be best; but that *is* kinda boring. Some of the ideas would be easy to implement anyway :D
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06/07/2014 19:13Posted by Aeneas
Wait, every class doesn't have access to CC?


Yay 1 blackhole every 12 seconds against tons of fast hops gotta be fun.

Blizzard has enough to do with improving existing legendary items, class balancing and seasons if you want to add more complex ways to scale grifts well I'd say we could scrap patch 2.1 and wait for next expansion.
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06/07/2014 19:35Posted by Plagueis
Yay 1 blackhole every 12 seconds against tons of fast hops gotta be fun.


Oh come off it, Black Hole is hardly the only CC spell a wizard has. I'm saying these things are good because it forces people to think beyond "What combo of active skills does the most damage" which is a *good* thing, no?

Glass cannon isn't the only way to play; it just is at the moment because of the way the game is scaled. We're discussing *different* ways to scale it to steer away from "highest damage is king". And it doesn't even force you to change anything, by all means you can just hope for rifts devoid of mobs that your build can't handle efficiently.

But the argument that "Scaling it in other ways means that we won't be aiming for pure DPS anymore" is kinda weak...
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06/07/2014 19:49Posted by Aeneas
But the argument that "Scaling it in other ways means that we won't be aiming for pure DPS anymore" is kinda weak...


Funny how you always assume I only care about DPS while you don't even know how I play.

I play mm conflag, hydra, teleport and blackhole wizard and my other 2 skills are mandatory so not really much room for additional cc just because you want fast minions also mammoth hydra + fast minions is not gonna work at all so yeah maybe check some facts before you make wrong assumptions.

I can handle grift tier 25 solo and grift tier 30 in a group without so much as dying just my damage is lacking so where is my pure dps? I don't think so. So rather than forcing me into even more defensive and less viable builds find a better way if you don't like hp scaling.
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06/07/2014 20:37Posted by Plagueis
Funny how you always assume I only care about DPS while you don't even know how I play.


What? Lol I didn't mention *you* at all. Get over yourself; I have no interest in discussing how you play the game at all.

I'm just pointing out the existence of plenty of other spells and active skills EVERY class has that can be used for crowd control.

What's more this isn't about what *I* want either, or had you not noticed all the other comments about how boring "and then we doubled it" is as a scaling mechanism....
Edited by Aeneas#2115 on 07/07/2014 01:18 BST
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07/07/2014 00:56Posted by Aeneas
What? Lol I didn't mention *you* at all. Get over yourself; I have no interest in discussing how you play the game at all.


So you didn't? Right...

06/07/2014 19:49Posted by Aeneas
And it doesn't even force you to change anything, by all means you can just hope for rifts devoid of mobs that your build can't handle efficiently.


Well whatever man your idea is the worst of them all creates even more randomness in grifts than we already have and makes strong cc mandatory which is dumb.
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I like the idea to cap the HP/damage at Torment VI and improve the difficulty of Greater Rifts with changing the ratio of normal monster vs. elite packs.

The implementation would be rather easy and the only work Blizzard has to do would be balancing Greater Rift level with the number of elite packs.

For example: Greater Rift Level / 2 = Elite Packs

GR 1: 0.5%
GR 10: 5%
GR 20: 10%
GR 30: 15%
GR 40: 20%
GR 50: 25%
GR 60: 30%
GR 70: 35%
GR 80: 40%
GR 90: 45%
GR 100: 50%

For a better balancing maybe the density in general should also be increased or maybe the higher the Greater Rift level the more difficult monster type will spawn (Act 4 & 5).

Greater Rifts are in my opinion endgame content, so I wouldn't go under Torment VI difficulty.
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