Diablo® III

Theorycraft: Endless Wrath of the Berserker?

Posts: 26
The basic idea is to generate more than 9 fury per second so you get the Wrath of the Berserker as a permanent effect.

Do you guys think this build will work:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#a....P!Xdh!b....b

With the passives (first one is for added damage - with this build you will be at full fury most of the time) and a few more fury generating active skills it shouldn't be a problem once you obtain the runes.

Maybe adding the ancient spear with golden rune and using it on CD will help.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#a...RP!Xdh!b...bb

The other 3 actives can be anything that will help deal more damage at times when WotB has a long enough duration not to worry about fury generation... mine would be something like this for PvE:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afVYRP!Xdh!bZccbb

What would your ideal PvE build be?

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Posts: 684
I was thinking of using that principle in a crit build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fdhYbP!bYT!ZaZbbb

The idea being that you focus on crit chance to deal "tons of damage" while also generating fury and some loot!

No idea how it will work out, probably realy gear dependant :)
Edited by Skyqula on 13/09/2011 13:22 BST
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Posts: 205
The basic idea is to generate more than 9 fury per second so you get the Wrath of the Berserker as a permanent effect.

Do you guys think this build will work:

Seems perfectly plausible.
Having the Unforgiving passive really helps this out when there are gaps between fights since your Fury won't be deteriorating but this will still be hard to pull off.
If you can't find another mob to use your Actives Skills on then you may lose the WotB buff between mobs since you can't rely solely on Unforgiving.
I'd suggest replacing one of your Actives Skills with Ground Stomp or War Cry with a Gold Rune so that you can still instantly get some Fury up even if no mobs are present.
Ground Stomp with Gold rune will add (15+43=48/9=) 6.4sec and War Cry with Gold rune will add (30+51=81/9=) 9sec!

Edit: Rephrased some of my paragraphs and added some maths
Edited by Duriel on 13/09/2011 13:20 BST
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Posts: 26

I'd suggest replacing one of your Actives Skills with Ground Stomp or War Cry with a Gold Rune so that you can still instantly get some Fury up even if no mobs are present.
Ground Stomp with Gold rune will add (15+43=48/9=) 6.4sec and War Cry with Gold rune will add (30+51=81/9=) 9sec!


I was thinking of that, but the rune info says that War Cry Gold will increase the Fury generated to 51 and not by 51. Which makes sense seeing how runes scale linearly with level and at level 7 they should provide something that is divisible by 7 (21 divides by 7). And Ground Stomp generates fury only if it hits an enemy.

Anyway just nitpicking, I think it's a good idea to have the War Cry in there. Maybe replacing the Ancient Spear. It all depends how thick are the mob groups in Nightmare/Hell. I mean if the fury generated can last me for 2 min and then the buff expires I can just recast it.

I also don't believe this will be very viable for Inferno, probably will need some health-regeneration runes in there and that will sacrifice the rage regeneration, which will break it all.

Could be a nice build to go through nightmare/hell though. With the lesser version of those runes of course.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
7520
Posts: 40
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aReTjP!dWh!bbbbZb

for the lols :)

Sprint to get to other packs of mobs more quickly. This also has the function to deplete fury when at max as at maximum fury you will not be "gaining" any. Furious charge into combat, hit your it a ground stomp \\ spear and bash away. The reason behind not grabbing the runed war cry would only be that the rage generation for every 30 seconds is on average lower than furious charge. in a 30 second period a furious charge at least gives 45 rage, without hitting any models at all in theory, hitting one mob in three charges already will beat the war cry outright. This also accounts for the other low cool down rage regeneration skills.

This build will require extreme cool down control though :p as you need to time stuff spot on and keep finding enemies to provide you with added seconds to your berserker state. Plausible, but generally I think you will not be able to have an endless berserker rage up. Just because of the fact enemy packs are not this close to each other, although sprint and charge do decrease this time :) o well fun anywho ^^

regards,
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Posts: 75
one question I have is: Does the Cooldown on WotB begin after the effect wears off or does it begin the second you use it? because that could change the gameplay a bit I would think...
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Posts: 205
13/09/2011 15:16Posted by morlach
War Cry Gold will increase the Fury generated to 51 and not by 51.

13/09/2011 15:16Posted by morlach
And Ground Stomp generates fury only if it hits an enemy.


Ah damn..
Well I think this would still be a very fun build, at least to see how long you can keep WotB up.
I think I'll definately give it a try once released.

By the way, would Fury generated through use of skills like War Cry even count towards keeping the WotB buff up? Or would only the Fury from getting hit and hitting mobs count?
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Posts: 26
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aReTjP!dWh!bbbbZb
...
This also has the function to deplete fury when at max as at maximum fury you will not be "gaining" any.

I really hope that is not how it works. I hope that fury gained beyond the max still counts towards the seconds, but simply does not increase your pool since you are at max. We'll have to wait and see I guess...
Also nice touch there with the Superstition passive, I missed that one.

13/09/2011 16:49Posted by FartingBlood
Does the Cooldown on WotB begin after the effect wears off or does it begin the second you use it? because that could change the gameplay a bit I would think...

That would change the gameplay, but I doubt it. all other abilities have their cool downs start ticking the moment you activate them and not the moment they expire.

13/09/2011 16:58Posted by Duriel
By the way, would Fury generated through use of skills like War Cry even count towards keeping the WotB buff up? Or would only the Fury from getting hit and hitting mobs count?

I don't see why fury gained in one means should be excluded but fury gained by another means should count (apart from obvious bugs). I would also expect that if there are such limitations, that those be mentioned in the ability description.

My biggest concern with this build is if focusing all runes on fury and actually pulling endless WotB be worth it over just plain runing +damage runes and not caring about that one buff.

Damn, it should be Xmas already!
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Posts: 1,549
I was thinking the exactly same here. here is how i was going to build:


skill 1: bash with golden runestone = 13 fury from each hit + damage dealt to keep the buff running.

skill 2: frenzy with crimson runestone = the core ability of this build, 75% ias to FRENZY (not that this is not an overall ias buff but to frenzy only) and 120% dmg dealt to everything.

skill 3: warcry with golden runestone = more sustainability to wrath of the berserker, i feel this is better than furious charge as you can use it even if you need the fury instantly but there are no far away mobs to charge or you don`t want to back off from your pack. afaik you can`t charge to a mob right in front of you, allthough i am not sure...

skill 4: sprint with crimson runestone = for faster movement to the next pack as there is no charge and this might be more convienient on not so far away mobs and probably a quality of life issue + it fits the frenzy baba theme, hit furiously, move fast ;)

skill 5: battle rage with crimson runestone = our priority fury dump.

skill 6: wrath of the berserker with golden runestone: core of the whole build and everything is around keeping this up

passives:

anomosity: 10% fury generation and 20% to maximum

weapons master: mighty weapons +1 fury per each hit

bloodthirst: to stay alive. 10 dmg back as life.

now you need to gain 9 fury per second to keep this going forever. much to my shame i have to admit i don`t know how ias will work in D3 and if there is a gcd or are there
frames similar to d2 or how it will be so my theory will be flawed but i`ll use the asumption you can use one skill per second.

the passive with mighty weapons gives static +1 fury to all fury regeneration, other passive adds flat 10% to all existing fury regens.

so these taken in to consideration the following can be said about abilities at disposal

bash = 1 + (1.1x13) = 15,3 fury per hit
frenzy = 1 + (1.1x3) = 4.3 fury per hit, need to be used atleast once in 4 seconds to keep buff up.
warcry = 1.1 x 51 = 56 fury, 30 sec cooldown

the roation could be something like this: get your game going and stack frenzy to max stacks, then wrath, warcry instantly afterwards to get the cd running, battle rage or
sprint to burn some fury, the bash and frenzy away. 3 bashes gives 5 extra seconds so that can be used as a something to keep in mind when evaluating the ratio between bash
and frenzy. sprint is to be used to burn fury and you will have a lot so it will always be on (possibly so much you could remove the time duration boost with something else)
and always cry when it is on cd.

rotation:

hit somebody to get 5 stacks to frenzy. then:

GCD 1: warcry, 56 fury gained, +6 seconds to cooldown, +2 excess fury
GCD 2: frenzy refresh, +6,3 excess fury
GCD 3: battle rage -20 fury, +6,3 excess fury
GCD 4: bash, +2 seconds, +3,6 excess fury
GCD 5: frenzy refresh, +7,9 excess fury
GCD 6: bash, +2 seconds, +5,2 excess fury
GCD 7: sprint -20 fury, +5,2 excess fury
GCD 8: frenzy refresh, +1 second, 0,5 excess fury
GCD 9: bash, +1 second, 6,8 excess fury
GCD 10: bash, +2 seconds, 4.1 excess fury

so 10 GCDs would give you 14 extra seconds. based on this it shouldn`t bee too hard to keep the buffs rolling. priority list would be something like

1. i have hit two other abilities than frenzy in a row?! i must be grazy! HIT FRENZY!
2. warcry is on cooldown?! oh my... FOR THE HORDE!!!! or whatever he yells in hes warcry
3. battlerage or sprint are not rolling? go for it.
4. bash to sustain wrath.

what you are getting out of this build as a constant passive bonus is:

wrath:

critical hit 10%
attack speed 45%
dodge chance 20%
movement speed 20%

frenzy:

75% increased attack speed to frenzy ONLY (!)
120% increased damage (as it now read it states that increased damage not increased damage to frenzy only so asumption is that it affects bash too but don`t count on it.)

battle rage:

100% increased damage
critical hit 4%

sprint:

110% movement speed

all these constantly up and hopefully all this damage in mind the 10% life leech from the passive will keep us alive indifinetely too :)

note: do NOT take any of my calculations or anything else in that matter as any type of fact. i have no idea how many abilities you can squeeze in to a second in D3 and fury
regen might be off so this is just speculation at this point but anyway it seems pausible and i like the idea of a barbarian that needs to be quick also in the brain area to stay deadly all the time ;)

TL;RD; MOVE LIKE LIGHTNING AND CHOPCHOPCHOP
Edited by Nassukka on 13/09/2011 21:26 BST
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Posts: 26
13/09/2011 20:29Posted by Nassukka
but anyway it seems pausible and i like the idea of a barbarian that needs to be quick also in the brain area to stay deadly all the time ;)


My thoughts exactly when I created my first draft of the build. Taking the attack speed buff from WotB into consideration your math sounds solid.

I just hope gaining excess rage will still contribute to the duration of WotB...
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Posts: 1,549
13/09/2011 20:49Posted by morlach
I just hope gaining excess rage will still contribute to the duration of WotB...


lol you used "rage" too. want to know how many times i had to type it, erase it and replace it with fury? x_X

anyway if the excess rage does not count it gives 3 different things to look for. the 4 second frenzy timer, wrath of the berserker timer AND not being fury capped :P~ if that IS the case i would probably replace battle rage with weapon throw with golden runestone and hope it gets the most out of having a lot of fury at disposal as it always diminishes all of it.

for instance if fury is 100 (i don`t know if it is) normally and the passive taken in to calculation it would be 1290 weapon dmg to the initial target and 1080 to everybody around it in 22 yards + possible buffs from other running buffs and probably surprisingly often as you generate a lot of fury this way and need to dump it away in big chunks to keep the reguired gcds free. you probably need a corpse for this. but there is a corpse. dead in front of you. always.
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Posts: 24
Drop Animosity passive, as having full rage works against your strat. You might add the 'No Escape' passive instead. Thus, everytime your Ancient Spear kills a target (use on low HP enemies as finisher) it's cooldown will be reset.


Just my 2 cents. :)
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Posts: 853
I had the same idea and came up with that build

<a href="http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afbYQP!bTd!bZZYbb">http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afbYQP!bTd!bZZYbb</a>

I should be enough with 2 1H weapon (with frenzy and wrath of the berserker attack speed bonus) to sustain WotB (far enough), and I could sustain battle rage as well: (10+5+4)% bonus crit are already enough to sustain battle rage so with the precision to add it will be really safe.

My fury dump skill are call of the ancient (when up) which will be nearly all the time in game since it last 85 sec/90 sec CD and mostly hammer of the ancient (396% dmg weapon and +15% crit to add more time to battle rage)

I have no real zone skill but the ancients should help.

@ MME: animosity is really good (the fury regeneration is better with fast weapon than unforgiving and the +20 max fury give a little margin), I didn't see it. It's berserker rage which isn't efficient with this build. So I traded unforgiving for animosity.
Edited by Aesahaettr on 14/09/2011 00:35 BST
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85 Draenei Warrior
3555
Posts: 117
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#cUYRWP!Vdb!babYbb

Ancient Spear to gather mobs arround me and cleave arround me for more fury. The more mobs hit me the more chance I have to keep Revenge up for the extra crit. Weapon Throw - Golden as a rage dump which should smother most opponents.

Some problems are fury generation at the start of combat and that it really only has AoE damage. I consider Weapon Throw, even with the damage it deals with that rune, an AoE ability.
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Posts: 1,549
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afPgjW!aYd!bZbbZb

This is my ultimate build for this. I forgot to mention that this build should excell at inferno because this builds biggest problem comes from moving from pack to the next and even that depends in the area and how mobile and "open" it is. I am pretty sure that now that inferno has a good drop rates everywhere around you could find an area that supports this kind of build that needs open area and a lof of close proximity packs. secondly the 130% movement speed allows you to move and dodge whatever is coming your way really well which i asume is something you need to do in D3 especially in inferno considering the now more complex monster classes. also the fact that in inferno monsters can take a LOT of beating even if you have a good gear it takes the best out of this build as it "gets better" the longer you can stay on the same targets once you`ve got your game and buffs rolling.

There is possibly some room for change but it all depends how well the fury generation works and this build has a fairly safe fury generation so you will never run out of wrath timer but if the fury generation is so good that some abilities like warcry could be dropped out without dangering the wrath buffs sustainability then that is something that can be done but right now can not be known.


13/09/2011 23:17Posted by nmE
Drop Animosity passive, as having full rage works against your strat.


I think that is a mandatory passive. you need a fury dump regardless and that raises the cap AND the +10% is imo mandatory but time will show that.


14/09/2011 00:30Posted by Aesahaettr
My fury dump skill are call of the ancient (when up) which will be nearly all the time in game since it last 85 sec/90 sec CD


You know i wanted those ancients myself but i just had to accept that because of their long CD they can no tbe used as a rage dump as it will basically always be on CD and i had no room for it :P
Edited by Nassukka on 14/09/2011 09:44 BST
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Posts: 1,549
Also the passive "no escape" might be better than weapons master if you plan to use weapon throw with dread shot runed in and it might be far better too. when dumping full fury based on current numbers it is supposed to do insane dmg to everything in the range and each kill returns 20 fury. not to mention the flat 100% to weapon throw initially from the passive.

lets say you play in inferno and have a pack and you beat one, get it relatively low, change target and get it to relatively low and all the time keep dumping fury on the whole pack via weapon throw runed with dread shot and in the end they are all on low and basically all die simulatenously which results in a big wrath timer boost via each +20 fury gained from killing the whole pack at once up to +6 seconds as 6 kills takes you to the cap so you have some extra time to move to the next pack.
Edited by Nassukka on 14/09/2011 09:53 BST
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Posts: 4
According to my calculations, you could hold it without the golden on bash.

With 20% base crit ( => 44% with battle rage, WotB, and 10% passive, 66% under Overpower's killing spree), you would generate an average 7,5 fury per Frenzy.
(3 + 0,66*7 = 7,62)
Even if that's possibly not enough, Ground Stomp's golden bring almost 5 seconds every 10 seconds (as long as you have an enemy, but that's the same for frenzy).

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3123039925
In this thread you can see that the Bash's indigo allow to have +80% more dmg.
Even if Revenge is proposed (the buff is better than the one from Overpower) that's really a bad choice in my opinion since you can safely say you will proc Overpower in 6 sec, spamming fury with 66% crit helps, but you can't say say you will be hit enough to proc Revenge (and anyway, you could have recovery time if you're hit that much, D2 mechanics that might have an equivalent in D3).

You could either decide to be full fury and get +20% dmg thanks to the passive or decide to use the fury to kill (HotA's Crimson would be awesome, but you would be using 7 skills...).

Ideally, you could remove the stomp, since you can hope to make more than 1 frenzy per sec, and but the HotA's Crimson and the life leech passive. That should be enough to be an insane boss killer. You don't need WotB on trash mobs anyway.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#fabYhP!bYZ!ZYZbZb

That would probably hold more easily with lvl 8 runes instead of lvl 7.

(PS: love the edit function which replace the links by the html code of the link....)
Edited by Skeebl on 14/09/2011 12:05 BST
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Posts: 1,549
14/09/2011 12:00Posted by Skeebl
According to my calculations, you could hold it without the golden on bash.


you have a very different build than mine but i just wanted to add that the golden on bash has a dual meaning. to keep the fury timer going easier and to actually gain fury as you have the weapon throw + dread shot as fury dump but also as a big damage dealer.

also in your build i could see a problem arising from the lack of fury dump. both your fury dumps cost "only" 20 fury and it might be that fury generates so fast that you don`t have enough gcds for both fury generators and fury dumps so you won`t constantly cap yourself and then be in a dilema that you need to get fury to keep timer going and also dump fury to be able to get fury that counts (this is assuming that overcapped fury does not count towards the timer)

weapon throw + dread shot is just imo ideal for this as it uses exactly every fury you have when used and there should bever be a situation where you would like to save some fury after it. also the damage gained from throwing a 120 fury throw + dread seems like a good dmg based on current numbers. it basically gets the most out of the situation where there is a lot of fury and nothing goes to "waste" so to speak

edit: also i have not understood the healthglobe passive? are you planning to sustaining your health with globes or what?

edit 2: maybe i wasn`t clear enough: it might be that the golden on bash combined with throw as a fury dump is also a dps increase compared to the passive 80% you would get from the other rune on top of making wrath timer easier to maintain.
Edited by Nassukka on 14/09/2011 12:16 BST
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Posts: 1,549
after a lot of thought and considering a lot of the viable options this is my final build:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afPgjW!aVd!bZbbZb

the warcry with alabaster rune is the last change as i feel that 50% maximum life and that life regen is way too much to ever pass on and the 30 fury should be enough from the cry in my build as a few second boost to the timer.
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Posts: 26
13/09/2011 21:21Posted by Nassukka
lol you used "rage" too. want to know how many times i had to type it, erase it and replace it with fury? x_X

lol, happens to me all the time.

14/09/2011 09:43Posted by Nassukka
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#afPgjW!aYd!bZbbZb

I like that build and your logic. I think I will only change the Weapon Mastery with Ruthless. I intend to try this while dual-wielding axes/swords (no mighty Weapon) because I think faster weapons will generate more fury than a slow weapon with +1 fury per swing. In that case Ruthless is better IMO.
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