Diablo® III

19/02/2012 22:19Posted by Paylot

I have a feeling that you think that we are all total retards and so everything must be as simplest as possible. Please dont make it another "Wotlk and further" crap for 3 y.o. girls.

Runes in item system = more grinding. Why lack of runes in items system would be for retards? Because you don't have to find them?

20/02/2012 00:16Posted by Radrik

From what we know, it's not possible to search for specific items (like runestones) in specific places, because all inferno mobs have the same mlvl, and the best way to obtain good items is to kill champions in any location you want. If that's "grinding" in D3, then how does that differ from simply playing the game? "Grinding" is still there, you just have one less goal, and one less loot option to be excited about.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against grind but there is difference between farming items that makes you stronger and items that allows you play different build.
Some grind is necessary but it would be ridiculous to farm long hours with some build to get other runes so you're able to change it for another one.

20/02/2012 00:16Posted by Radrik

What you probably meant by "less grinding" is "less items required to make a perfect char". OK than, I agree. But why would you say it requires "more thinking"? What decisions do you have to make now that were non-existant in the previous system?

No i meant runes doesn't make your char perfect or stronger they just make it different. Why should i gring if i want certain playstyle?

Maybe for you running through same location over and over again is what this game should be. It's important and fun I agree but I had it in D2. What I expect from D3 is this will come with more competition like arenas etc where you have to think about your build to be the best.

That's why i wrote removing runes from item system lets you focus on making the best build which certainly requires thinking. With runes as items 90% of peaople would check internet for best build so they wont waste those precious runes.

I rather want to try various playstyles freely than farm hours for some runes to find out they don't meet my requirments.

20/02/2012 00:16Posted by Radrik

On the other hand, imagine that after some *cough* grinding efforts you had a pile of assorted runestones. You could decide which of them are needed for you build,

Again the runes wont improve your build they will make it different correct me if I'm wrong.

I like everything that changed except for the Skill UI.
- The skills are difficult to find because of the categories (which make no sense - the Demon Hunter, for example, has Sentry under "Archery", Multishot under "Devices" and Fan of Knives under "Defensive").
- Even with Elective mode, you still have to scroll through the categories and choosing a skill seems like a tedious job.
- There's no way to see all the class skills at once.
- With Elective mode activated, some of the skills you're suggested to change while you level up (restricted by the slots you can use) make no sense. Skills of the same category have far too different applications.

I understand why the UI change was needed, but I'm still seeing a lot of people only using the left-click while they have 3 or more slots unlocked. It was not your UI's fault, it's the players'. To someone who's not a complete idiot and can figure out the generator/spender mechanism, this new UI is quite cumbering.

Seriously people, everything is a subject to change at this moment. They could turn the playable characters into ponies if they'd feel like it :)

And since most of us Europeans haven't been granted the access to the beta, all you can do are pure speculations on how different things will affect the gameplay. And since the game isn't out yet, even this can change quite drastically.

so plz let me know if i got it right..
in this case: i am a wizard level 7 with impale and rune that give me a bonus...another wizard with the same level 7 and imaple can have a different bonus from the rune??

I dont know if answers here are all read, but I'll try anyway to mention my concerns in regards to the new rune system:

Basically, I like the idea that you can directly choose, which build you want to play without having to worry about the drops. This is good in the new system!
What worries me though is, the endgame progression of the character.

In the old system, you had the possibility to increase the performance of the skill, by getting a better rune on inferno, but this just increased your performance, it did not ultimately change your build.

What I propose would be a mixture of both systems. On the one hand, allow each character to choose which variant he wants to use. On the other hand, give a player an endgame char progression after hitting the cap of 60, when he runs around in inferno. I dont have any solid suggestion unfortunately, its really hard to come up with a system that does not have the same problems the old had.
It is also something that does not necessarily need to be in the release product and I think blizzard knows this. It may very well be suited for any patch down the line, lets say 2 or 3 months after release.

@Phoenix this is an item game not a skill game. Like all other diablo games, it remains true to it's goal..which is "farm items" not "farm skills". As for proposals i think they underwent through several....they are not as dumb as to come up just with 1 idea. If they didn't change to X that means X had issues..or could have braked other systems.

Have a bit more faith in Blizzard ;) it's the best game-developing company atm and no one can deny that. Everything they do is a hit...that auto-means they have the brains to back it up.

so plz let me know if i got it right..
in this case: i am a wizard level 7 with impale and rune that give me a bonus...another wizard with the same level 7 and imaple can have a different bonus from the rune??

No. Since you unlock your first runes with lvl 6, you will only have a rune or two at lvl 7. These might be for the skill you mention, or for another skill, but they will be just the same for every wizard that reaches lvl 7. Once you advance through the lvls, more and more runes unlock, so at a high level you will have a choice of four runes for your (each) skill which you can choose from.

I guess the main critique about this system is, that the game experience will be identical for everyone as players lvl up, and there is no more luck / grinding factor involved. Hence in the old diablo games you might have needed weeks to get lucky and find the rune you needed (or you had to trade for).

Don't take the grind out of the grind (:

One thing that bothers me is that why do they even call them "runes" ? they are nothing close to what runes were in D2. D2 item enchancement, D3 skill aesthetic/modification. If they would have called the something else than runes people would probably not have a problem with them at all as it would have been a totally new "aspect" to the game and how can you whine about something that didn`t even exist before and adds more depth to the game :P

item enchancement and rune words that is.

Love the new changes ideas and system. Well done and good work. Keep it up Blizzard

@Phoenix this is an item game not a skill game. Like all other diablo games, it remains true to it's goal..which is "farm items" not "farm skills". As for proposals i think they underwent through several....they are not as dumb as to come up just with 1 idea. If they didn't change to X that means X had issues..or could have braked other systems.

Have a bit more faith in Blizzard ;) it's the best game-developing company atm and no one can deny that. Everything they do is a hit...that auto-means they have the brains to back it up.

not that I have no faith in blizzard, I know they tested basically the !@#$ out of this stuff...Nevertheless, part of a discussion is to propose what may be a problem in the new system and personally I feel, that the now lost upgrading possibility is a problem.

You are right that it is an item game, but I felt that the change took a little bit out of the game.

Stop the d2 comparison. In d3 there will be no runes you can enhance items with. Its skill enhancement only.

Needless to say i know a ton of players who loved the runeword system of d2 LOD, where you first had to find the proper grey item with the correct number of sockets (hey, useful grey stuff!), then you had to know the proper runeword, plus you had to work for your runes. That was something to keep you online for weeks!

Posted by Paylot
I have a feeling that you think that we are all total retards and so everything must be as simplest as possible. Please dont make it another "Wotlk and further" crap for 3 y.o. girls.

Actually my daughter (5) played yesterday and finished beta as Witch Doctor without any problems or deaths but I hope that difficulty will grow as we progress through game. I like changes so far, it feels much more fluid when you level and have something exciting every level. On the other hand I am not sure if it is good decision to making game even more simple because of people who never played games before.

@Sellest: lol yeah, thats exactly what you do if you wanted a 15 yr old community go nuts :P hence the d3 community is of an ago who played games 15 yrs ago, mostly.

But then again, maybe they will be able to sell this d3 console game for 5 yr olds as a xmas present, so they also get their share of blood, zombies, splatter and addiction.

19/02/2012 11:58Posted by DeKa

-Ready for console port

This and only this.

F*** Console! Get a computer.

i'm sorry for my english.

I think it is a pretty interesting idea this new rune system.
But a couple of thoughts :

1) the rune inventory issue is not a real problem. They could have addressed it adding the runes found directly into the skill ui (with a number), transforming them in consumable items and leaving the option to choose the rank of the rune and the type. To swap a rune the player has to consume one of his found runes [it is an option] and ofc don't let be the runes tradable!

2) They are avoiding the initial dead zone but what will happen after that all the skills and runes will be unlocked? "Only" grinding for items? Blizzard can keep the actual system with the unlocking runes but keep all the different ranks. So a player can see his skill being more and more powerful during the game and levels. I like the fact of the 5 different ranks... they could have implemented it i think. An idea : maybe we could have only 4 different rank (1st rank during normal playtrought, 2nd rank during nightmare, 3rd during hell, 4th in Inferno)

3) i don't remeber... i'll add lately maybe

I'm just posting this without reading all the previous pages of this thread...

20/02/2012 09:20Posted by Funkie

This and only this.

F*** Console! Get a computer.

Well, sadly the modern world consoles just "rule" the gaming world. Getting a good gaming computer costs a lot more than a console. Also, console doesn't need to be upgraded every now and then. Since gaming is more popular nowadays (on consoles), of course the game companies want to get into all possible markets to make more money.

On topic.

The changes sound good in my opinion, though I agree that we should be able to choose which rune we want to unlock. This way, if we play co-op during normal too, we will see more variety on skill builds there too. A minor variety, yes but still.

Or perhaps sometime add an artisan, which helps you to craft more powerful skill runes? This way crafting would affect skills a little. This artisan could appear only at Hell and Inferno difficulty, since on normal and nightmare you won't be needing that much killing power. This way people would farm crafting items (whichever those will be for runes?) and for equipment too. Runes should unlock earlier, but you'd get better runes only with crafting.

Well you probably thought alout about runes not being items and let's give it a try.

However, I am concerned about the reduction of complexity. Runes now have only one rank instead of 5. Have you considered the following ideas:

- reintroduce the Nephalem Altar: But this time it is only required for changing the runes. Skills can still be changed everywhere with a 15 sec cooldown

OR

- reintroduce the Mystic (or rename him/her): The Mystic is required to change the runes. The Mystic can also be trained (higher in Nightmare, hell, Inferno etc.) to improve certain Runes in 5 Ranks.

Runes would still be not items. Runes would have 5 ranks. The game would be more complex and would have more motiviation in higher diffficulty levels. It is even better lore-wise (Runes are more complex to change and improve compared to skills). I know you are under a lot of pressure to release the game and make it more casual but Blizzard always wants to delver the best game possible so let's try out everything.

I don't why every one is hating I love thease changes