The tooltip is kinda lacking. The spell itself is a no CD nuke, but the tooltip for spiderqueen rune clearly state:
"You may only have one spider queen summoned at a time"
Will this mean that spider queen will be a summon just like zombie dogs? Meaning:
1) Permanent until dead
2) Gets all effects that would othervice affect summoned creatures
Edit: For a pure summon build this is GOLD worth to know aswell. Can spiderqueen spider attacks trigger fetish sycophants on each attack? Or only the initial "summon"?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#bRYQTP!Zde!ZZYbYb example build if spider queens regular attacks can spawn Fetish sycophants.
I can allready see it happening.
The horde of hellish demons stand guard at the gates to hell. Over the hill - a giant gargantuan rises tall, taunting the enemy. A small band of demons rush up the hill. And as they near the top, four burning zombie dogs jump up aswell. The gargantuan crushes the first demon with his massive fists as the dogs go straight for the throats of the enemy. The stinking poisonous cloud surrounding the gargantuan brings the last of the dying enemies to their knees.
Seeing this, the rest of the demons charge forth. On the gargantuans shoulder sits a little hex shaman. Doesent seem like it does much, but suddenly one after another of the demon elite squad turns into chickens, tormented by this horrible transformation spell amplified with jinx - the hexed targets make easy prey.
But the demons are to strong, to many... The Witch doctor has to act, the time is now!
Suddenly disgusting horrible spider queens emerges sending hordes of little poisonous spiders into the fray causing chaos. A fetish summoner begins some kind of dance and the witch doctors allies are infused with strength. The gargantuans attacks suddenly knocks the heavily armored heads of the enemy off their shoulders in single hits. The battle is even but as the spider queens young ravage her enemies fetishes starts to emerge from the ground one after another. For each dead demon, the witch doctors army is only strengthened. This is when it happens, the witch doctor casts a horrible spell. The demon master is sick of this attrition warfare and sees this, attempting to finnish the battle by chopping the head of the snake by killing the master. Smoke and dust, the demon master stops briefly. Will this be the time for the final blow?
The dust settles. And before him the demon master sees a small army of 8 fetishes, all armed with razorsharp blades. They grin wickedly and the demon master suddenly feels something he has never felt before, fear - as the fetishes tears him apart.
The screams makes even Diablo uneasy. What could possible be out there that can make his most cruel demon master scream with such dread and agony?
Towards the gates of diablo's bastion the wicked witch doctor moves with a slow and calm walk. A gigantic zombie gargantuan at his left, oozing poisonous fumes out of his skin. Four unyielding burning dogs ahead of him, sniffing for enemies. A litte twisted hex shaman laughing like a maniac at his shoulders. A horrid gigantic spiderqueen and her young on the right. And behind him an army of fetishes with razorsharp blades.
The armies of hell will soon know that their army is only the 2nd strongest in sanctuary.
Edited by Ouroboros#2414 on 21/04/2012 05:30 BST
Truly Great Scenario you made there! Epic storytelling!
On the subject, I assume the Spider Queen would be a Permanent until dead summon that would benefit by effects like any other summoned creature... I highly doubt the Spider Queen's attacks could trigger <Fetish Sycophants>, that Passive could be triggered only by the initial summon of Spider Queen, which is <Corpse Spider> with the <Spider Queen Rune>... Spider Queen does not attack tho, she gives birth to spiderlings, so I suppose with a Spider Queen out you don't have to spam yourself <Corpse Spiders> Skill for as long as you have one Spider Queen out... We'll see exactly in the game, this thing can't be tested in the Beta...
I don't think pets themselves could ever trigger <Fetish Sycophants>, otherwise you could end up with like 20 Fetish and that would be OP, only Witch Doctor's physical realm spells can trigger that Passive (spells in the list there). Even so, I can almost see your scenario happen, the WD has the means to be the Horror of all horrors in this game with the best Combo build...
Congratz again for your Epic story, I enjoyed the lecture!
Edit: <Fetish Sycophants> Passive is of not much worth in that build, the only Active Skill that could trigger it is <Corpse Spiders> so either change it with other passive or redo pretty much entire build to use Active Skills that can ALL trigger <Fetish Sycophants>... With your build, I'd definetly go for <Tribal Rites> as last Passive Skill point, would decrease the CD on <Big Bad Vodoo> and <Fetish Army> by 30sec, which it's a lot! I'm trying to find out myself, the best Combo to have the most powerful Summon/Pet build I could get, yet it's hard to decide, there are few choices that can only be made after the game launches and we'll get to see exactly how some skills work in combat... Cheers!
Edited by Cruel#2262 on 21/04/2012 10:39 BST
I don't think pets themselves could ever trigger <Fetish Sycophants>, otherwise you could end up with like 20 Fetish and that would be OP
That is exactly what I said!
<Fetish Sycophants> can only be triggered by Witch Doctor's skills (the ones in the list there), pets cannot trigger them or it would be Over Powered to have like 20 Fetish at a time...
Learn to read please!
Witch Doctor can only summon 5 Fetishes from <Fetish Army> Skill + 3 with <Legion of Daggers> Rune so yes that's 8!
On this matter, it remains to be seen in the game, if the Fetishes from <Fetish Sycophants> Passive Skill, (when the Skill procs), would add to those 8 Fetishes that the Witch Doctor can Summon with <Fetish Army>... We'll see that at lvl46 when all skills and runes regarding Fetishes shall be unlocked...
Thanks Cruel :D You will be rolling a summoner aswell? I too fear that only the original spell can trigger sycophants and I had tribal rites as my last passive first. Unfortunately I feel both jungle fortitude and zombie handler are both mandatory for a summoner, at taking out tribal rites pains me. But wouldnt a true summoner have sycophants I wonder? Maybe I will use leaping or paralyzing spider spam instead.
Ibji: If this is true you can have 8+1+1+4+1+8= 23 summons out at the same time at one point. I can allready see the havoc! And my allies complaining about lag xD
I shall try a Summoner aswell yes. We'll see how that works out, I also think that, with this combination, a True Summoner would end up of having 15-20 pets out at a certain time from Skills + Procs... Add to that as many Spiders as you could spam with <Corpse Spiders> and another Witch Doctor to do the same thing(in the group), and I think the screen might just Freeze hehe...
<Jungle Fortitude> and <Zombie Handler> are a Must for any Summoner yes. I'd say <Jungle Fortitude> is the best Passive for any type of WD for Solo Play and PvP!
3rd Passive is even harder to chose between <Tribal Rites> Passive to be able to use the Crowd Control <Hex> at all times and the Buff <Big Bad Voodoo> and <Fetish Army> more often...
or <Fetish Sycophants> Passive to get a chance to summon a Fetish while spamming <Corpse Spiders> (I doubt you can have more than 1 Fetish out at one time from <Fetish Sycophants> tho, I think if one Fetish is out and it procs again, the first one shall dissapear, doubt they stack. If that is the case then it's safer to just go with <Tribal Rites>...
This Build would be a fun one(tens of Spiders + Dogs + Fetishes + Gargantuan on screen) but definetly not the best one. For a great build, 1 or 2 of those Pet Skills would have to be sacrificed for DMG increase and maybe even that 3rd Passive to be a Resource regeneration...If mana ain't a problem, <Pierce the Veil> Passive it's also a beauty with it's extra +20% DMG (pets included) but I repeat only if Mana wouldn't be a problem because it also increases the mana cost for everything by 30%... Perhaps a Rune change would make things easier like <Widowmakers> Rune for <Corpse Spiders> Skill...
On the other hand I'm not so sure that Skills like <Summon Zombie Dogs> and <Gargantuan> stack with each other, or you can have either Dogs or Gargantuan out at any time (we can only test that when the game is out). If I would need to choose, I'd take the dogs and instead of gargantuan I'd take some pure DMG Skill instead...
Edited by Cruel#2262 on 21/04/2012 12:29 BST
wow... that sucks :(
On the good side, its one step closer to knowing how it all works. Its still annoying not to know if the spiderlings spawned can trigger sycophants. So far it looks like I will be picking medusa or leaping spiders and tribal rites then.
At least with a Spider Queen out, you wouldn't have to spam for spiders, just summon the Queen every 15 sec, or what exactly it's CD shall be... :D
I shall use <Plague of Toads> Active Skill with <Rain of Toads> Rune, should also be fun, maybe even better than spiders if you can control where you cast the Toads, unlike the spiders, where you just throw the jars on the ground...
Here is my Witch Doctor Summoner Build:
An easy build, with much functionality to it... Use <Fetish Army> and DMG + Speed Buff (<Big Bad Voodoo>) every 90sec for Great DMG Burst, the rest of the time, just Put a Powerful Spreading DOT(<Locust Swarm>) on enemies and by the time you have to DOT again just spam Toads, which, with the <Rain of Toads> Rune, I think they can be controlled where to land, unlike the rest of toad runes that randomly throw the frogs down and they might even miss the mobs if jump in the wrong direction...
In case the Witch Doctor can't have both Zombie Dogs and Gargantuan pets out at the same time, then I shall use the dogs for groups of mobs and Gargantuan for Elites(Champions, Rare, Bosses) and replace the "useful" pet skill with <Soul Harvest> Active Skill for Extra DMG...
I think this to be a fun easy Build as Summoner Witch Doctor. For PvP or High End Content this wouldn't be a viable Build when pets would die in 1 Hit or from AoE DMG instantly, for that there are other Builds, but as Master Summoner Build this is the best in my humble opinion. Nuke every 90 seconds, Pets, Powerful DOT, and Good direct dmg spam...
Edited by Cruel#2262 on 22/04/2012 02:12 BST
First, Im pretty sure you can use Gargantuan and dogs at the same time. If not - I would personally abandon the witch doctor forever out of spite xD
My first thought was that your build is so simple... but when I imagined myself fighting with it I have to agree this is a really good build. You may not use fetish CD rune, but as you say Big voodoo+legion of dagger for massive burst damage when needed will be great for elites/bosses. Gargantuan and dogs should be enough to hold mobs while you nuke with both DoTs and AOE, chewing the enemy up along the way.
My only concern was that the DoT wouldnt be optimal VS having a nuke to utilize big slam +30%damage. But then I realized your dot with big slam would do 468 + 93 = 561 damage over 8 seconds i first thought "wow!". If you were spamming nukes during big bad voodoo, you could quickly go OOM and this could prove lethal on higher difficulty if you get swarmed and pets die. Still 561/8 is only 70% weapon damage per second. So are you sure locust is the best for single damage source? Ofcourse it is great vs many mobs, but against act boss I think it is weak. You allready have rain of toads for AOE.
Edit: I agree sacrificing Hex may be good. Hex seems to be very underwhelming considering it cant debuff or CC elite+ mobs.
Edit: After some thinking I think I would use this:
As single target/AOE nukes due to the high damage modifiers and nuke ability stacking with slam dance. But... I would probably suffer mana problems compared to you.
Edited by Ouroboros#2414 on 22/04/2012 16:18 BST
First things first, <Locust Swarm> + <Big Bad Voodoo> with <Slam Dance> does 468% + 140% Bonus = 608% Weapon DMG as Fire, that means 608/8 = 76% Weapon DMG as Fire/second on 2 Mobs! => 152% wep dmg/sec with 1 cast(that's a lot!), and probably 2 casts per pack of mobs would be needed... So DOTing 2-3 mobs per pack would pretty much mean AoE DOT for Huge DMG on the entire pack.
If that proves a Mana Drain, then the Frogs shall use the <Toad Affinity> Rune to remove the Mana Cost on them to really be able to SPAM them non stop between DOTing with Locust Swarm... Frogs have afterall the highest dmg of all 4 spammable primary skills, therefore best option. If no Mana problems, then use them with <Rain of Toads> Rune to control where they land, if Locust Swarm would drain pretty much mana then use <Toad Affinity> Rune on Frogs to be able to really spam them.
After some thinking I think I would use this:
Any Build that has more than 1 Skill Spammable would suffer Mana Problems!
We both agree, that 4 Skills on Active Bar are good(Dogs, Gargantuan, Fetish Army and the AoE Buff)... For the Mouse skills Primary should be any of the 4 Cheap Skills to SPAM (Dart, Spiders, Frogs, Skull). For the Secondary should definetly be a Powerful DMG Skill, either a DOT or a Direct DMG Nuke with CD !!!
You can't use 2 DMG Skills to SPAM, at least not with Summoner Build...
As I said earlier, have Fetish Army + Bid Bad Vodoo for Great DMG Burst when needed(Elite/Boss). The rest of the time, put a DOT or use a Big DMG Skill that has CD(I personaly love that DOT because it has High dmg and it spreads so you can have it on all mobs in the pack) and SPAM one of the 4 Cheap Skills(Dart, Spiders, Frogs, Skull).
That's the only way for the Summoner Build to work...It's also easy to use, either wait for the DOT to finish or wait for the CD of that Direct dmg Skill, the rest of the time SPAM the Cheap dmg Skill! :D
Read your post and I have no counter arguments ;)
I also noticed we may have derailed the thread a tiny bit away from spiderqueen lol, that poor thing! Truly wish someone could confirm if spiderqueens spiderling attacks counts as a physical realm spell being used - when deciding fetish sycophants. I really want tribal and sycophants but I guess we cant have everything.
I'm glad you liked it, I'll open a new Thread in few minutes for Witch Doctor Summoner builds only!
Be sure to check that one out, I'll add 2 Builds for starters, one more passive, ranged Summoner(more survival) and the other more active, melee summoner or mobile how you'd like to call it(more dmg)...
Am sure I'll change builds quite a bit once I've got experience from a full Normal playthough and some things will change based on stats I have from gear (also am unsure about the mana cost for toads vs. mana regen so I might rune for the confuse toads if it's spamable without no mana cost).
Best gear set with this will be more tanky with focus on HP and lifesteal, using harvest souls to makeup for any possible lack in int on gear. Assuming 5 random stats I'd probably look for Vit, Lifesteal, Int, Magic Find, +1 more flexable.
Going summoner build so that I've got pets to tank for me, there's a few points to cover:
- Pets tanking should allow me to be closer to packs.
- Using frogs as primary means they come out in a 90° cone infront of character, so the closer I am to the enemies the larger chance I have to hit with 3 toads.
- Being in close range should allow me to keep up Soul Harvest which at 60 will give 130 int per stack, if we assume that you can have ~1000 int at level 60 (I crafted a level 26 unique belt with 41 int) then it's going to be a fairly significant buff to damage at anywhere between ~10%-65%. Also if I can get in close often enough then the longer duration rune might not be needed and you could look to use it as extra DPS or a heal.
- Alternative to this is Big Bad Voodoo with Slam Dance which is a party wide buff, think my choice between those two will come down to how much I need the on demand burst for everyone vs. how the constant sustained damage I get vs. how safe it is to be in close range in the first place.
- Took standard passives, but I think Fetish Sycophants will be worth a look as I've not found any cap to the number you can have out. 3% of all attacks proc it or 1 in 33 (rounded down for ease) with a 1.5 attacks/sec speed then spamming toads you should get a proc every ~22 seconds on average. This means you should have 2-3 up at anyone time, at a guess they'll do 20% weapon damage like the skill to summon them. They will also act as mini-tanks as they benifit from Jungle Fort (depending on HP this could be great or render them useless).
Edited by R3f1exez#2447 on 23/04/2012 04:28 BST
I like your approach. Instead of big bad voodoos CD-reliant use you went for soul harvest.
Which also opens up for removing tribal rites for sycophants as tribal rites is only good if you have atleast 2 out of the 3 spells it helps. And with no-mana toads and locust spam you will probably easily get out sycophants without it being a gamble.
Question: Will soul harvest int buff create stronger pets when you summon them only - with soul harvest up OR will your pets while allready summoned immidiately benefit by being stronger as you get the buff? (In other words wont resummoning pets while buffed be needed?)
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