Diablo® III

Double weapons, or shield?

Posts: 10
Yo, current on a first run through normal in a 3-4 man group - I'm a kinda healing support tank monk at the moment. Healing breath and the Dodgey mantra (think we're mid 20's atm).

Wondering if it's better to take two singe hand weapons, or stick with my current dagger/shield combo? The protection boost from the shield is rather fine, and I don't really know how a second weapons stats stack with the first hence the dagger/shield atm.

Please enlighten me!
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When I was twinking my monk, I was using daibo, coz it packs quite a punch. And I never got under 90% HP in normal difficulty until I met diablo, who got me to 70%.

twink level gear + cool daibo + trident runed Deadly Reach = 1hiting group of enemies with each strike. I needed a party of 3 ppl afk in the town to get a challenge in normal (aka Butcher was only little dangerous coz of flames, Belial didn't scratch me even though I stood still whole 3vsBoss fight, Azmodan didn't scratch me coz he's missing any melee attack - only hitting with flying zombies and homing missile, and I tanked diablo without getting under 70%, even though I stood in his traps a few times).

Sadly, now on nightmare twinking started to be REALLY impossible, coz some !@#$% are buying every better piece off auction and post it for 10 times more.., so I can't get top items anymore and I'm getting quite punched in Act 2 nightmare (act 1 was easy, didn't die once, but 2 is hell lot harder, I already died like 6 times)

I recommend you to use Daibo with lot of dex and vit, combied with +hp per spirit spent or at least lifesteal.
Also if you want to tank with 2h weapon, be sure to take passives: 100% dex to armor, hp per spirit spent, +15% spirit regen (for those nasty fights when you got like 10+ elites chasing you)
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Posts: 10
Huuum, hadn't even considered using a two handed weapon - the couple I've tried were painfully slow. Might give one a crack if I find a nice Diabo.
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90 Human Rogue
5180
Posts: 100
Well, I've just started Hell on my monk and you don't necessarily need a Daibo. I've got a really good polearm with high dexterity, a bit of vitality. It does the job, especially if you have gear with attack speed.
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i got a really nice 1h spear with a decent shield and high dex
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Posts: 108
The mitigation benefit from shield is currently really poor. I've tested Dual wield and 1h/shield extensively and currently the spirit regen combined with how much faster you kill the mob, DW comes out on top every time.

My shield has 1000 armor and 19% chance to block 2500 damage.. when you think about that it means a poor % to block very low damage (mobs in Inferno can hit me for 40k) and 1000 armor is only like 5-7% mitigation. 7% of a 40k hit isn't much when you think about it..

Also 2H is just not viable for Monk later on. Spirit regen is too low, even with passive.
Edited by Hostar#2284 on 21/05/2012 20:32 BST
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Posts: 6
I go with the fist weapons, currently on act 3 nightmare, going real smooth. Just pump up your gear with dex gems. At lvl 38 i had round 1200 damage, mobs went down easy, only challenge are elite packs with molten and vampiric imo. With the mantra of healing and the passive that gives you health when using spirit you can sustain yourself alot. especially if you use your healing skill too (can't remember the name). Anyways good luck and have fun, dual wielding is the beest imo
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Posts: 16
Dual wielding is really bad in this game. Your weapons does not have separate swing timers.
1h Shield or 2h is the only way to go.
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Dual weild for max dps and enjoy the 15% attack speed bonus, normal and nightmare is easy, only in hell do you need to swap your spec, and inferno is when you'll want that shield ;)
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Dual wield for both dps and survivability tbh, those 15% attack speed make all the diffrence when you need to raise spirit quick.
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90 Troll Druid
12220
Posts: 31
21/05/2012 20:32Posted by Zilos
My shield has 1000 armor and 19% chance to block 2500 damage.. when you think about that it means a poor % to block very low damage (mobs in Inferno can hit me for 40k) and 1000 armor is only like 5-7% mitigation. 7% of a 40k hit isn't much when you think about it..


7% if you compare it to zero armor is not much that's right. However the gained survivability increases more with every percent of mitigation gained (note: armor scaling is not linear so at some point it becomes useless to stack it)

But let's say you already have 50% mitigation from armor and you add 7%. In this case the survivability actually increases by 14% because you take 7% less from the original amount of damage but compare the damage taken to how much you took before adding that item.

Nonachieveable example: you have 98% of mitigation from armor. Means you take 2% of the original amount of damage. You add an amount X of armor which brings you to 99% mitigation. Now you only take 1% of damage which is half as much as before. You just split the damage you take in half, hence doubled your survivability.

Since I don't intend to steal the scaling values I want to recommend the following post for further information on the armor scaling:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3660206725#1
Edited by mbraun#2953 on 21/05/2012 23:26 BST
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i think daibo is great too
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21/05/2012 17:50Posted by Steed
Huuum, hadn't even considered using a two handed weapon - the couple I've tried were painfully slow. Might give one a crack if I find a nice Diabo.


Daibos can be quite decent as well.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/ekpx6a.jpg
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Dual wielding is really bad in this game. Your weapons does not have separate swing timers.
1h Shield or 2h is the only way to go.


I think that they do.
If you open you inventory, and click Details below your character attributes.
Find your attack speed and start swinging you will see the number flick back and forth between the speeds of the two weapons.

Im level 44 i use dual wielding, and its true to say that you cop a hell of alot of damage, however up to level 50-55 you have multiple ways to heal yourself.

Mantra of healing - Allows for quick regeneration of health
Breath Of Heavens - with a certian rune you can heal yourself up to 6K health
Potions - These are always handy
Converts - Some weapons allow you to get health when using spirit.

Using these health recovery options it makes it difficult to die, however i think that in the higher levels you might find that change to block and armor rating will be better as you will have well more than 6K of life.
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DW all the way for the most part.

The difference in theory is:

DW attacks faster and hits harder (if both weapons are good obviously)

Sword and broad is slower but tankier.

However as a monk you get life from spirit, and spirit from attacking, hence DW pretty much is the best way to go as it gives you more of that precious spirit to spam out all them spirit to life conversions.

At least at normal, can't comment past that.
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85 Orc Death Knight
4580
Posts: 28
On inferno everything outside of 1h+shield or some risky DW dodge build is completely out of question.
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I am dual wielding, u get alot of dodge, and with the evasion mantra u can get an extra 20% of armor wich is also very nice!

I try to get as much as dex and vit on my weapons. so i have lik 170-200 vit and dex on each weapon. So good DPS and good survivabilty.

U can go shield, try to look for the highest block, + vit + dex and maybe + life on hit or lifesteal.. or attack speed.

attack speed will give u alot more DPS.

Daibo is great, but when dual wielding, u can have more dogde and more dps...
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Dual wielding:

pros:
+ 15% dodge from talent
+ 15% attackspeed
+ stats from the offhand (might be different elemental damage ... 1 hand fire, 1 hand frost damage, spirit regen, ...)
+ due to fast attack speed -> better spirit generation

cons:
needs two(!) good weapons
your hits alternate, so you hit A - B - A - B - A when dual wielding while you'd hit A - A - A - A (but without the +15% attackspeed) when only using the mainhand + a shield

if you get a really nice daibo, you can of course use that, but i would never give up 15% dodge and the crazy attackspeeds of dualwielding
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Dual wielding is really bad in this game. Your weapons does not have separate swing timers.
1h Shield or 2h is the only way to go.


you're clueless.

They have seperate swing timers. take 2 weapons with different speeds, open details stats window, wail on some mob and you will see atk spd will change back and forth; that is because you use boths weapons for atacks
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I believe you haven't understood how damage reduction works. First let me test you: Raising your reduction from 25% to 33% is the same as raising from 33% to 41%? Both are 8% raises.

The awnswer is no. Reduction is not linear, it is a 1/x type equation. Imagine 100% reduction!

How to calculate your effective health: HP/(1-reduction)

Examples (say you have 1k hp):
- 25% reduction: 1000/.75 -> 1333 effective hp
- 33% reduction: 1000/.67 -> 1500 effective hp (up 167)
- 41% reduction: 1000/.59 -> 1695 effective hp (up 195)
- 50% reduction: 1000/.5 -> 2000 effective hp
- 75% reduction: 1000/.25 -> 4000 effective hp
- 100% reduction: 1000/0 -> world ends because your immortal

In other words, every 3000 armor doubles your effective hp.

Furthermore, how does dodge and resists come in?

As I understand, armor reduces ALL damage. If you have all resists at same ammount (with monk's passive) that reduces ALL damage as well. Dodge acts the same way if you consider it over time (after dodging many times with 20% chance, its like reducing damage in 20%).

I believe that the way to calculate your effective hp would be:

Apparent HP / ((1-dodge%)*(1-reduction%)*(1-resist%))

Example (1k hp, 20% dodge, 50% reduction, 30% resist)
- 1000/(.8*.5*.7) = 3571 effective hp

In this way, what is linear is that armor will give you the same amount of effective hp, thus armor is linear in a way (assuming blizzard did use a simple calculating algorith such as Reduction = Armor / (3000 + Armor) ).

OBS: by effective hp I mean if instead of having reductions and dodge you just had that ammount of HP (took on full monster damage).

OBS2: effective hp should only be used to determine which stat will make you tankier (more hp, more dodge or more resists). You should not take healing into account over this ammount. The right way to judge stats would have to take healing effects into account and that would be way too hard...

OBS3: you cannot reach 100% reduction because that would require infinite armor, so don't worry, the world is safe!
Edited by Sivir#1562 on 27/05/2012 07:14 BST
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