Dear community and everyone else who plays diablo 3
I am a long time user and fan of blizzard games. I have played every game that has come out of the hallowed halls of where ever they make those games.
I have always enjoyed the games immensly and have always felt that blizzard offered great value through their fun games. I played both diablo 1 and 2 for a long time, but last night i had the revalation that diablo 3 simply isnt a fun game to play.
Before going any further i just want to state one incredibly important fact. I never used in of the strategies that have just been nerfed. I played through the game to reach inferno the good old way.
That being said the "big big no no" in game design is dont frustrate the player:
Fun might be a lot of different things for different people so lets take diablo 2 as an example and compare it to diablo 3.
The social aspect
There were channels and games that could be made and were public. It was easy to meet other players for story telling, bragging rights for your great gear, games or trading.
In diablo 3 its rare to meet players who talk to anyone not on their friend list. You can join public games sure but its very hit and miss (its miss all the time) and thats frustrating.
The ability to get the best gear through farming and skill at killing bosses
Well in diablo 2 there was a lot of boss farming to be sure. It could be boring so why do it? well it provided a chance to get the best loot and was an intersting encounter that you could get very skilled at.
In diablo 3 you just farm quests or tp to heroic packs in the hope that you either get a very easy stint for hold farming or get lucky enough to meet something that doesnt 1 hit you.
For me i have hit a spot where there is just no progression. Its frustrating.
In diablo 2 the boss encounters were pretty interesting for the most part. Im not claming thats why people did them 2000 times, but at least there was the sense that you were killing the big baddie and he dropped the best loot for you.
In diablo 3 you're not supposed to farm the bosses. Instead you kill his terribly designed heroic packs that just 1 hit you most of the time. Being chain killed is frustrating. especially since blizzards idea of scaling difficulty is 1 hitting you. not exactly challenging OR fun.
When i hit level 60 i hit the auction house with all of my saved cash and got items that is way above anything that can resonably drop in the hell difficulty. As the cunning reader might have guessed this poses a problem. I can't get better gear where i am and if i go back i cant get better gear either, since no upgrades will drop for me on hell difficulty.
A not being able to advance my character results in the game no longer being FUN. farming millions to buy one of the nice items that power players are not able to get, is repetetive and boring. I should at least be able to find stuff myself without resorting to feeding players who got powered pre nerf with gold.
My other options is to creep through inferno, restart every time i hit a nasty heroic pack. Maybe get teleport and try to kite the packs away from where i am going to eat through the silly easy story line bosses. This option also strikes me as distinctly not fun.
Some guy on here said that by playing to lvl 60 i had already gotten my moneys worth.
While that might be true its not the standard that fans all over the world are holding blizzard too and i dont expect that diablo 3 will anywhere near the succes that diablo 2 was. By the way diablo 2 still has people playing.
that game is simply too frustrating and as a player you get very little in return for the uinteresting stacking of intel and damage. The terrible one hit and chain dying and the bland social experience that is diablo 3
in closing i invite you to do one thing as you're playing. Am i really having fun?
As I think I've stated on these boards before;
Character Development is one of the main reasons I play these games - assigning stats so that you can work towards various armour and combat style builds.
Working off a large collection of abilities in combat
Playing a tight and responsive game.
Diablo 1 and 2 had all of these qualities.
Diablo 3 removes character development completely and makes all characters STOCK except for their armour - and makes the inventory system brain dead.
The abilities are now limited by the broken skills UI so you don't' really know what they do anyway, and limits you to 6 at any given combat situation. Hell, apart from Shrines there aren't even any buffs!
And now, from Australia you get about 1000ms response time in single player, which is completely broken. I suspect the game in normal mode is purposely retardedly easy in order to allow for Australians to be realistically able to complete the game in one of the game modes.
So its not even a shadow of its former incarnations really. Its more like that massive online tower defence style Command & Conquer vs Command & Conquer 1 - 3 - in name alone. It should have been callled Diablo - Console Edition.
Haha the console edition thats good :P
i dont see how it would be remotely possible to play it on a console tho. With all the kiting required to avoid the mortar shots and lightning quick relexes required to get out of dodge when you get vortexed they shouldnt be able to keep up :P
I know that its not new
I think that blizzard really took the easy path in a lot of areas with this game. Thats disapointing and really unlike blizz.
Maybe if enough ppl make these threads blizz will notice
The fact that everyone had so high expectations for this game and found it to be not very fun at all is the reason that there are so many threads. Better to have a lot and hope that blizz actually notices and does not make the same mistake again. Otherwise im out as a life time fan of blizzard.
Lets reverse that old saying for once
hate the game not the player
Freecake , trolling is a art. Dont forget that.
On Topic: I totally agree with everything you say. Blizzard cant ignore these facts for too long i hope.
I am sure they will not change the way skills and character progression work, but it would be nice to see some loot improvement in term of legendaries beeing legendary etc.
I admit it´s a little weird how the character progression works in this game. The main problem, as i see it, is the weapons. Your damage is super reliant on your weapon, and you can´t get good weapons from Hell difficulty, you have to go to Inferno. And when you got inferno weapons, you can roflstomp all of Hell. So Hell as a difficulty level is like nightmare, obsolete and unchallenging. Thus you´re left with inferno which hosts some very broken elite packs that no-one can beat.
I can see where you´re coming from. :P But as long as i´m having fun and can progress with my character, i´m fine with the game.
Edited by rullakebab#1276 on 24/05/2012 11:08 BST
Disagree heavily on this part.
Diablo 2 encounters were never interesting atleast not from a melee perspective.
Andariel, stand there and punch, no way to have time to dodge attacks unless you are already running, but you don't gain anything from it.
Stand there and hit her while drinking potions.
Duriel. The same here, only a melee attack and freeze aura, nothing to think about, just stand there and hit him and binch potions.
Mephisto. Once again stand there and hit while binching potions, you have no time to evade his attacks because they happen almost instantly. You can however try to move him out of his own posion could, but most of the times he just do range attacks at you instead.
Diablo. Stand there and hit, once again binching potions.. no way to dodge abilities completely however you have to move out of the electric beam and the fire waves on the ground (not the ring spell), his bone prisons were only used on portals for some reason.
Baal. Stand there and hit him, no way to dodge any of his attacks since they happen instantly aswell... so just binch potions and hit him and hope he doesn't split to his clone to early which would make it much harder.
I never really found the boss fights interesting... it was fun because of the loot hunt and the feeling to finally kill them on the highest difficulty with the gear you found... however it was never interesting fight.
Now, Diablo 3:
You can dodge 4 spells... and you kinda have to, you just can't stand there taking it. But even if you can, doesn't matter because you actually can dodge and do something about this.
You have to pay attention to the ground, which place gets burned next and move out of it.
You have to see where he points so you can dodge that hook.
When he stands and jumps on one spot he does the big slam, move out of it.
Aswell as the charge.
Dodge those and punch him inbetween... that is a more interesting fight and more fun overall and also, more skillful. Since in diablo 2 it was only about gear... can you stand there and take it? no.. go farm some more.
Now it's gear, because of the enrage time aswell as skill to not die by these abilities.
Same here, possiblity and a must to dodge his attacks which means the same as above.(getting tired of writing).
Probably the most boring fight in D3, but still better than any of the ones in D2.
Slow moving spell that does insanely much damage aswell as portals being opened that needs to be closed. So you got something mroe to do than just stand there and punch.
dodge bone prisons
move out of fire ring
Watch out for electrical beam
And also the champion packs, in act 1 inferno atleast, are quite fun... it's a big challenge and yes some can one shot you (mostly the ones who doa slow big hit) but it happens rarely and I have !@#$ gear... but when we bring them down it feels awesome and getting that stack and then kill butcher is just yummy.
Well as i said in numerous other threads, i find the game fun, with exception of the unacceptable broken inferno act 2 onwards. I'll reroll multiple classes to that point until i get tired of it. But if they won't fix it it will never be long term motivating me. It's frustrating and that makes it not fun at all!
for one thing im glad you're having fun :)
I also think you're right about some of the boss encounters in diablo 3 actually being quite nice. The problem is thats not what you should be comparing since blizzard purposely made it so that you wont be killing the bosses very much.
You should compare the boss killing of diablo 2 to the quest griding and 1 hitting extra fast teleport heroic packs of diablo 3.
I agree its hard to kill something with 500k hitpoints that can easely 1 hit you. Its not very fun tho. I would love it if the way you got loot in diablo 3 was more like the boss fights and less like the 1 hit fests.
I have to agree with the topic here. ive kinda lost interest in this game.
Its a shallow immitation of D2 that relies on the AH and multiplayer to give it depth and replay value. thats not a game, its a blatant attempt to make another cash-cow game that WoW has been for them.
the loot list is extremly poor as far as variation goes, especialy when compared to D2. i dont think ive found an item that didnt have xp gain or magic find or increasing the health gained from globes.
and upto press i havent seen a weapon that had a decent amount of elemental damage. admittedly i havent got to the next difficulty yet so that may change, im not sure. and what happend to item stats such as Nova? or deadly strike? or elemental resistances?
By lvl27, in D2, i had mainly blue items and a couple of rares. in D3 by the same lvl i had mostly "rares". i say it like that because they dont "feel" like rares, when they are so easy to find. it kinda cheapens the effect you know?
also the boss fights are bad. fair comment they are more tactical yes... but having to start the whole fight again when you get 1 hit or whatever is annoying. in D2 it was simpler true, but it had a certain feelin to the fights. D3 seems to have lost that. i fact D3 seems to have lost all aspects of what made D2 fun.
And i think i know why. the original team that made diablo 2 left blizzard and made hellgate: london. and despite that games flaws it was still more fun to play than this is.
So, Blizzard/Activision, if your reading this bring the old team back next time!!!
Dear community and everyone else who plays diablo 3
Im must say i dont agree with you AT ALL, some of the most challening (dark souls/demon souls and SC 2 multiplayer as an example) ive play have allways been frustrating, mainly because in challening game you tend to die alot, and with me kinda it allway makes me frustrated, which is also why beating the challenge makes it so rewarding. I like inferno mode (in in act 2 with a WD), for the first time in D3 it feels like the odds are stacked against me not for me.
Then again thats my opinion
Edited by FruitEater#2203 on 24/05/2012 11:51 BST
Imo i think we all had are hopes up to high for diablo 3. For me its not what i thought it would be not at all and the first game i ever played was diablo 1 so i was hooked from the start played all diablo's they was great but diablo 3 i feel the farm side of it has gone(for bosses). Other then that the game its self as a new game is great but and a big but they based it to much on old diablos and its nowt like them if you understand my point the acts are all the same as diablo 2 but the game play is not. using 6 skills is good but nowt like old diablo. Imo they should have made it almost the same with classes/skills etc as D2LOD or made the acts total different. You would only understand my points if you have played old Diablos. Still a good game for free :) but not for me as a long term game like D2LOD. Hopes was way to high for this game and thats what destroyed it for me my own hopes!!!
I had to quote you on this one @Kumori
What is Diablo3 then if Diablo2 was only about gear? Diablo3 is even worse, because Blizzard of course hopes sooner or later lots of people will buy the gear in their RMAH (and they really try hard to accomplish that).
Wow, that's basically the polar opposite of what I liked about D2, the bosses were horrible. Even Baal, who was the most complex of the fights with his wave attack.
It is funny how people praise the good old D2 and then write problems with D3 that were also in D2 but it seems everyone keeps forgetting about.
I agree with the channels, but I play with my friend so atm it is no problem for me.
Boss fights are much more fun, D2 boss fights early:
open tp - hit the boss, if u die np, run in tp open tp again pick up ur body and repeat.
later: kill him easy.
In D3 I really enjoy boss fights, you have to pay attention and not just stand and spam spells/attacks.
You say that bosses don't drop the best loot, well what i do now (and i never bought anything from ah and i won't until we beat inferno) is farm skeleton king in inferno, but we stack up 5 nephalem valor buffs before, and voila the drops are good.
I don't know why teleporting to Mephisto and bugging him on the other side of the pit then attacking him until he dies was more fun.
People are also complaining of character imbalances in inferno. Let me ask you: How many character classes could solo Ubers in D2 for a torch after 1 week of a ladder reset?
Random bosses are too hard on inferno. Well in D2 after one week im sure you could kill a fast, extra strong, convi aura soul. With a lightsorc or trap assa. Oh and yes it also one shotted you, but it seems it was all fine in D2.
All in all I really enjoy the game, it is better than I expected, and i find that people are complaining about things they shouldn't. Or if they do they should say that D2 was no better in them.
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