Diablo® III

So anyone been theory crafting etc. on this? I'm at inferno now and i find 2h Xbow being like the Best of the best... because of the extra crit damage.. and specially since the best 1handers have like 500-600damage and same with bows they are like 800max but xbows goes beyond 1k damage....

Anyone know how the whole thing works? like 2x 1Hand bows with 500damage each is "the same" as a xbow with 1k dps? trying to figure out what would be best to aim at... but in anyway i look at it i see xbow being FAR superior because of that crit damage increase which you can combine with a socket in bow and if bow has the extra stat.... beens you can do completely insane crits...

Also seen people with 1hand for speed and a quiver? how exactly can this beat 2hand xbow with quiver, the damage difference is HUGE......

And how can 1hand bow + quiver be better than 2x1hand bows in some cases even though the offhand bow got better stats??

anyone got a theory crafting site of diablo cause all this !@#$ is damm confusing!

if you gonna try to answer my questions, then I'm very thankful cause i don't seem to find the answer myself.

Best regards Zipn
Native is not english, cut me some slack ! :P

its complicated to say the least. The guide says its simple. Well, if it were would you require this much text to explain it?

Diablo 3 Dual Wield Mechanics Guide
http://www.osirisguide.com/diablo-3-dual-wield-guide/

Given that three of the five Diablo 3 classes can dual-wield (Monk, Barbarian, and Demon Hunter), a lot of people have questions as to how dual-wield works in Diablo 3.

Dual-Wielding is a pretty simple mechanic in Diablo 3. When you equip a weapon in the off-hand slot, you automatically get a 15% increased attack speed bonus for using two weapons. This is the only direct bonus you get from dual-wielding.

When you are dual-wielding weapons, you alternate attacks between them for most attacks. Each weapon retains its own damage and attack speed. For example, if you have a 1.0 attack speed weapon and a 1.5 attack speed weapon, your main-hand weapon will swing first at an attack speed of 1.15 attacks per second (15% bonus from dual wield) and then your next weapon will swing at 1.725 attacks per second.

If we convert these numbers, this means that your main-hand will swing, there will be a .87 second delay (1 second / 1.15 attacks per second) and then your off-hand will attack. Once your off-hand attacks, there will be a .58 second delay before you swing with your main hand again.

Since you alternate attacks when you dual wield weapons, as a general rule of thumb your weapons need to be somewhat close in damage or else you may actually lose damage when you dual wield. Imagine if you have a 20 DPS club and a 6 DPS club in your mainhand and offhand slot respectively. Even with a 15% attack speed buff, you still have to swing that weak offhand weapon one time for every time you swing your mainhand weapon. This will likely lower your DPS since it is slowing down the number of times you are swinging your much more powerful main-hand weapon.

D3 Dual Wield Mechanics Guide – Exceptions and Oddities

While as a general rule of thumb you want to find an off-hand with as high as DPS as possible, there are a few exceptions to the rule. I have put together a video that demonstrates a few things which modify the best weapons to use when dual-wielding:

In the video above, I talk about dual wielding and two stats of interest: +Weapon Damage and +Attacks Per Second. Here is the general gist of the video along with some other important stats that you should know about when choosing your weapons for dual-wielding:

+Damage. This stat is not only important for your off-hand but rather both weapons. This is a stat which flat out adds damage to your weapons regardless of attack speed. The faster the weapon, the bigger the DPS bonus you get from it. Faster weapons tend to be better for dual-wielding, particularly in the off-hand slot. There are a few downsides to fast weapons, but that is a topic for a later post.
+Attacks Per Second. This stat increases the attack speed of both weapons, not just a single weapon. This makes any very fast weapon with this stat very strong to use in the off-hand slot, particularly when combined with +damage and attack speed rings. I have not seen it on any magic or rare weapons in the beta, but then again that only covers low-level items. You can find it however on white-quality weapons with the prefix “Balanced”. In the video, I have a Balanced Simple Dagger, though I have seen much higher DPS Balanced Broadswords and Balanced Shivs that would work well too.
Faster Offhands Can Be Weaker Than Slower Off-Hands. Since a fast offhand takes up less of the attack cycle than a slow offhand, you can get away with not using
Other Stat Bonuses. Stat bonuses like increased attack speed (on armor , not weapons), strength, dexterity, and other effects are highly prized on dual-wield weapons since they improve the damage dealt by both weapons. Sometimes a weaker off-hand with a lot of your primary stat will be a better off-hand than a higher DPS off-hand with no relevant stats.

Edit: According to Redditor Darouu, increased % attack speed bonuses on weapons only apply to that particular weapon, not to both weapons. For example, if you get 5% increased attack speed on your off-hand, your main-hand weapon speed will not change. +Attacks per second definitely applies to both weapons, so whether or not increased attack speed when found on weapons not applying to both weapons is a bug or working as intended is still up in the air. You should still seek increased % attack speed on rings and gloves when dual-wielding as this applies to both weapons. I would not be surprised if +attacks per second gets nerfed because right now it seems too strong for dual-wielding.

I hope that clears up a lot of the confusion about how dual-wielding works. Just remember that it doesn’t hurt to take a second to equip a lower DPS weapon with some interesting stats to see if it boosts your DPS. Also, check between different off-hands as your armor and jewelry slots change, particularly if you add on anything that boosts weapon damage or attack speed.

So... quite simple! Right? Right!!? Told ya ;P

Anyway, in my own personal experience 2handers are better. Why? Because of your abilties. All of them are based on your WEAPON DAMAGE, and since a 2hander's average weapon damage is much higher than a 1hander, the bonus you get for your abilties is therefore much better. i could clearly feel this when i went from 2x 1hander xbows to a 2hander xbow. suddenly only had to use multi shot 2 times to clear packs instead of 4. now having to cast multi shot 4 times does not only require twice as much time as 2, but it also costs twice as much hatred!

this is just my experience. might be wrong. please feel free to comment :)

Interresting.

I just find it so sad that xbow is far superior as 2x 1handers is waaaay more fun and cool!

And whoever says "then just go with 2x1handers" i just have to say no, its not like that, I'm farming on inferno atm and tbh its rather difficult enough as it is with my current gear, going for even worse gear/setup (1handers) would not help me! :D

It is true that your skills are based on weapon dmg. It is, however, also true that your casting speed is based on weapon speed as well, so it all evens out in the end.

21/05/2012 04:10Posted by Feriluce

It is true that your skills are based on weapon dmg. It is, however, also true that your casting speed is based on weapon speed as well, so it all evens out in the end.

not really. if you had unlimited hatred this would be true, but you dont. the thing is that youll only be able to cast 3 multi shots on a full bar. so while youll be able to cast the multi shots faster with 2x 1handers, youll just run out of hatred that much faster, standing doing nothing until you get to 40 hatred again (or use some of your primaries of course ^^).

21/05/2012 04:26Posted by Razid

It is true that your skills are based on weapon dmg. It is, however, also true that your casting speed is based on weapon speed as well, so it all evens out in the end.

not really. if you had unlimited hatred this would be true, but you dont. the thing is that youll only be able to cast 3 multi shots on a full bar. so while youll be able to cast the multi shots faster with 2x 1handers, youll just run out of hatred that much faster, standing doing nothing until you get to 40 hatred again (or use some of your primaries of course ^^).

Well you will obviously fire your primaries faster which will regenerate hatred faster... So you regenerate hatred alot faster with 2x 1h xbows than with a bow or a normal xbow.

21/05/2012 04:26Posted by Razid

It is true that your skills are based on weapon dmg. It is, however, also true that your casting speed is based on weapon speed as well, so it all evens out in the end.

not really. if you had unlimited hatred this would be true, but you dont. the thing is that youll only be able to cast 3 multi shots on a full bar. so while youll be able to cast the multi shots faster with 2x 1handers, youll just run out of hatred that much faster, standing doing nothing until you get to 40 hatred again (or use some of your primaries of course ^^).

Well if you've been an idiot and not brought any hate generating abilities, you're completely right. However, you obviously also cast your hate generators faster as well.

There is one exception to that fact though, you cant spam spike traps, since you need to wait for them to detnoate. This is especially true with the last glyph, which only allows you to set up one set of traps at a time. And since it's really easy to keep up with hate generation even with a slow weapon, you are better off with a slow weapon in that particular rotation - which uses your best damage spell in the game, nothing beats 825% weapon damage for only 30 hatred.

1Handers also allow you to use a shield which is huge even if you loose like 20% dps.

Bows aren't that bad since they get a flat +15% damage while 2hand xbows get only +50% crit damage which is a very poor bonus unless you gear for a lot of crit.

Anyway, in my own personal experience 2handers are better. Why? Because of your abilties. All of them are based on your WEAPON DAMAGE, and since a 2hander's average weapon damage is much higher than a 1hander, the bonus you get for your abilties is therefore much better. i could clearly feel this when i went from 2x 1hander xbows to a 2hander xbow. suddenly only had to use multi shot 2 times to clear packs instead of 4. now having to cast multi shot 4 times does not only require twice as much time as 2, but it also costs twice as much hatred!

this is just my experience. might be wrong. please feel free to comment :)

Though you only need 2 multishots, you will have much more delay between each shot than with x2 1h xbows, and sure you lose more hatred because you have to shoot more, but that also means that you will generate hatred faster from hungering arrow and bola etc because of the extra speed.

I use x2 1h xbows, and I can fire 3-4 multishots after one another, fire 1-3 hungering arrows, shoot multishot again, and repeat. And this happens just under a few seconds because of my attack speed

Im on hell yet, have not got any problems yet (died only once stupidly) and i play with 1 handed because of Dh-specified bonuses like +max discipline, but maybe now it is time to raise DPS even more...

bid on a bow today, according to maths 2hbow is by far superior with the 15% damage increase and most bows have ias so same speed as 1handers... gonna see if it helps, hopefully it does!

21/05/2012 09:16Posted by Zipztab

bid on a bow today, according to maths 2hbow is by far superior with the 15% damage increase and most bows have ias so same speed as 1handers... gonna see if it helps, hopefully it does!

1h xbows by default are faster than a bow, plus they can have bonus speed on them for even more

not really. if you had unlimited hatred this would be true, but you dont. the thing is that youll only be able to cast 3 multi shots on a full bar. so while youll be able to cast the multi shots faster with 2x 1handers, youll just run out of hatred that much faster, standing doing nothing until you get to 40 hatred again (or use some of your primaries of course ^^).

Well if you've been an idiot and not brought any hate generating abilities, you're completely right. However, you obviously also cast your hate generators faster as well.

Did you even try to look at the difference between a xbow and a 1hand xbow's attackspeed? its like 1.60 attacks per second (APS) VS 1.10 APS. Only half an APS faster (aka NOTHING). And since DW mechanics makes you fire your weapons in turns, and not simultaneously, you gain only a very little APS increase.

So yeah, you will generate your Hatred about 0,5 (APS) x 3 (Hatred generated / attack) = 1,5 Hatred per second faster, with 2x 1handers. including the 15% IAS from DWing that would result in 1,5 x 0,15 + 1,5 = 1,725 Hatred per second faster. Not worth it if you ask me.

I just beat the butcher on inferno and I'm working on act 2.
While I find it hilarious to use a 2h Xbow and sharp shooting while running into a pack of mobs with a 100% crit fan of knives, I think there's another aspect that you have to consider.
I find it very clunky to run around with the 2h Xbow because it's too slow. With a slow weapon you get a delay with each shot where you can't move, making it much more difficult to studder step or kite mobs.

I personaly prefere using a bow because I find the damage of the 1h Xbows a bit low for the abilities to have a good impact at times when you can't fire off that many shots. And as I mentioned above the 2h Xbow is a bit too clumsy.

Besides the 15% increase damage is always nice, while the 50% crit damage on 2h Xbow is only good if you have a lot of crit.

Bow + High Attack Speed... epic :D

I've considered running 2h xbow, and Sharpshooter... Just don't like Sharpshooter that much!

Bow + High Attack Speed... epic :D

I've considered running 2h xbow, and Sharpshooter... Just don't like Sharpshooter that much!

Ye thats what I'm aiming atm aswel! got outbid on the bow though.... sucks.

well I'm using bow + quiver both have as(1 14% and quiver 13% i think) and I have 10%as ring wth 7-14 bonus dmg. my dps is at ~7k at 55 (I know it's a bit low but I don't use sharpshooter) and basically with bat out and entangling shot that generates 6 hatred and due to 2.2 attack speed I can alternate between ES and EA and don't loose any hatred at all. Also I'm killing stuff much faster than with xbow+quiver (had ~8k dps instead of 7 with xbow). I'm also gonna try DW 2 hand xbows and see how will that work out. I'm on hell right now tho

still only lvl 20 and love the challenge using my 2 hand crossbows, its personal I like to use those. 2 handed cross bows are damm slow I sell all them I can get or give to the scoundrel if its better.
But I have considered Attack speed is more vital, correct me if I am wrong thou I am not very good and theory crafting. I merely go with the flow. I find it more fune when she spins around with 2 hand crossbows and deals max damage and use it fior a quick getaway from mobs kiting them along a safe path.
But I do gear so I get hatred generation, attack speed and dex. I am I have least one item that has health generation if I do not have the templar around.

Did you even try to look at the difference between a xbow and a 1hand xbow's attackspeed? its like 1.60 attacks per second (APS) VS 1.10 APS. Only half an APS faster (aka NOTHING).

Now, I'm no expert on this game, but that is roughly 45% faster. That seems like a very considerable amount. How is this 'NOTHING?'

Correct me if I'm wrong.