Diablo® III

WW & Sprint RLTW tick frequency mechanics

Hello tornado and whirlwind fans! This post contains the mechanics of these two amazing Barbarian skills that many of us love to use. Among all the useful data you´ll find tick frequency breakpoints that scale with attack per second. I hope it´ll help you make the right gearing decisions to maximize your efficiency at playing this game.

Enjoy!

The same topic in the American part of the official forums
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497

Explanation of some terms I use here:
"tick" - each moment (time) that the game checks for damage and effects of tornadoes and WW (including fury cost)
"hit" - actual tick hit (damage) on monsters
"aps" - exact attacks per second value that I calculated manually, it does not always correspond with the character screen details value
"IAS" - increased attack speed

All of the conclusions mentioned below are based on actual in-game tests. I´ve researched this by recording each situation using fraps and afterwards I viewed the video in slow motion.

The process of figuring out the mechanics:

1. First thing I figured out after the damage values and proc coefficients were tick breakpoints of tornadoes at different aps values by counting the number of tornado ticks.
2. Based on some WW recordings I made the assumption that it scales with aps in the same way as tornadoes. I found out the specifics of dual-wielding.
3. I viewed the fury cost of WW with the mouse over the fury globe to find out that it had a fixed fury cost per tick (pre 1.0.5) and that it scales with aps (1.0.5).
4. After further 1.0.5 (PTR) tests I figured out that each WW tick (damage) corresponds with a fury tick on the fury globe (losing fury) which made it easier for me to find out the actual tick frequency of WW.
5. I found out that the game usually runs at 60 fps and as I recorded at 60 fps and could view the video frame by frame, I figured out that tick frequency is just a sequence of specific frame lengths (ticks) depending on the aps values.
6. Having the aps and the corresponding frame length of ticks, I figured out formulas that would allow me to calculate the exact frequency breakpoints for WW and Sprint Run Like the Wind. The researched values were the same as the calculated ones :)
7. I´m currently in the process of figuring out the new mechanics behind WW fury cost per tick in 1.0.5 that scales with aps.

Let´s get started already.

Note that the following data is applicable to the 1.0.5 version of the game. The only differences between 1.0.5 and 1.0.4 were the change in the proc coefficient of Sprint and the WW fury cost change per tick from a set fury cost per tick to fury cost scaling with aps. No changes were made to tick frequency mechanics and breakpoints.

SPRINT RUN LIKE THE WIND MECHANICS

1. Tornadoes do 20% main hand base weapon damage per tick. Base weapon damage is the value below DPS in the weapon window. A simplified damage formula (per tick) = 0.2 * (base weapon damage) * (1 + strength/100) * (1 + sum of damage bonuses from skills and gear/100). A critical hit then multiplies the result by (1 + total critical hit damage/100). To calculate your DPS, just multiply the damage per tick by the tick frequency according to the chart I provide below.

2. Tornadoes have a 0.08 (down from 0.2) proc coefficient, which means that:
a ) each tornado tick heals you for 8% of your total life on hit value,
b ) each tornado tick has a 8% chance to generate 3 fury when you equip a Mighty Weapon in your main hand and use the passive skill Weapons Master,
c ) each tornado tick has a 8% chance to activate an on hit proc effect from a legendary weapon,
d ) each tornado Critical Hit has a 8% chance to:
- generate 15 fury when Into the Fray is active,
- create a blood explosion when Bloodshed or Slaughter is active; note that the patch notes for version 1.0.2b of the game state that Bloodshed and Slaughter effects can´t be triggered by each other´s critical hits.

3. Tornado tick frequency scales with attacks per second (chart below).

4. When dual-wielding, tornado tick frequency depends on the attacks per second (aps) of the last weapon swung before using Sprint.

WHIRLWIND MECHANICS

1. WW does 145%/3 (48.33%) base weapon damage per tick. Volcanic Eruption rune does 145% * 1.3 / 3 (62.83%) base weapon damage per tick. The damage formula is the same as for tornadoes, just change the 0.2 modifier to 0.4833 or 0.6283 depending on what rune you use.

2. WW has a 0.13 proc coefficient. The effects are the same as with Tornadoes, but they now have a higher probability (13%) to happen.

3. WW tick frequency scales with aps the same way tornado tick frequency does, they even have the same breakpoints.

4. WW fury cost scales with aps in 1.0.5 while it had a fixed fury cost per tick in the previous versions of the game; now the more aps you have the less fury it costs per tick. The fury cost ranges from 3 fury per tick at the lowest aps to 1.634 fury per tick at 4.4472 aps. You´ll find the average fury cost per tick values on tick frequency breakpoints below (to be done).

5. When dual-wielding:
a) WW alternates between weapons to deal damage beginning with the weapon you are about to swing before using WW
b) WW tick frequency depends on the weapon you are about to swing not the weapon you swung before using WW (exact opposite of Sprint)
c) WW fury cost per tick (for the whole duration of WW until you stop spinning) depends on the weapon you are about to swing before using WW. It does not alternate between the weapons and their individual WW fury cost.

WHIRLWIND/SPRINT RLTW FORMULAS:

Tick frame length = (20 / aps); rounded down to the nearest whole number
Number of tornado ticks = (180 / frame length); rounded up to the nearest whole number
Ticks per second = (60 / frame length)

ATTACKS PER SECOND - FRAME LENGTH - TICK FREQUENCY - # OF TORNADO TICKS

0.86957-0.90909 aps - 22 frames per tick - 2.73 ticks per second - 9 ticks
0.90910-0.95238 aps - 21 frames per tick - 2.86 ticks per second - 9 ticks
0.95239-1.00000 aps - 20 frames per tick - 3.00 ticks per second - 9 ticks
1.00001-1.05263 aps - 19 frames per tick - 3.16 ticks per second - 10 ticks
1.05264-1.11111 aps - 18 frames per tick - 3.33 ticks per second - 10 ticks
1.11112-1.17647 aps - 17 frames per tick - 3.53 ticks per second - 11 ticks
1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames per tick - 3.75 ticks per second - 12 ticks
1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 frames per tick - 4.00 ticks per second - 12 ticks
1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 frames per tick - 4.29 ticks per second - 13 ticks
1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 frames per tick - 4.62 ticks per second - 14 ticks
1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 frames per tick - 5.00 ticks per second - 15 ticks
1.66667-1.81818 aps - 11 frames per tick - 5.45 ticks per second - 17 ticks
1.81819-2.00000 aps - 10 frames per tick - 6.00 ticks per second - 18 ticks
2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 frames per tick - 6.67 ticks per second - 20 ticks
2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 frames per tick - 7.50 ticks per second - 23 ticks
2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 frames per tick - 8.57 ticks per second - 26 ticks
2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames per tick - 10.0 ticks per second - 30 ticks
3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 frames per tick - 12.0 ticks per second - 36 ticks
4.00001-5.00000 aps - 4 frames per tick - 15.0 ticks per second - 45 ticks
5.00001-6.66666 aps - 3 frames per tick - 20.0 ticks per second - 60 ticks
6.66667-10.00000 aps - 2 frames per tick - 30.0 ticks per second - 90 ticks
10.00001-20.00000 aps - 1 frame per tick - 60.0 ticks per second - 180 ticks

Note that I provided up to 5 decimal numbers for aps values but the most accurate way to describe the mechanics is as follows:

22 frames per tick: 22 =< (20 / aps) < 23
21 frames per tick: 21 =< (20 / aps) < 22
20 frames per tick: 20 =< (20 / aps) < 21
19 frames per tick: 19 =< (20 / aps) < 20
18 frames per tick: 18 =< (20 / aps) < 19
17 frames per tick: 17 =< (20 / aps) < 18
16 frames per tick: 16 =< (20 / aps) < 17
15 frames per tick: 15 =< (20 / aps) < 16
14 frames per tick: 14 =< (20 / aps) < 15
13 frames per tick: 13 =< (20 / aps) < 14
12 frames per tick: 12 =< (20 / aps) < 13
11 frames per tick: 11 =< (20 / aps) < 12
10 frames per tick: 10 =< (20 / aps) < 11
9 frames per tick: 9 =< (20 / aps) < 10
8 frames per tick: 8 =< (20 / aps) < 9
7 frames per tick: 7 =< (20 / aps) < 8
6 frames per tick: 6 =< (20 / aps) < 7
5 frames per tick: 5 =< (20 / aps) < 6
4 frames per tick: 4 =< (20 / aps) < 5
3 frames per tick: 3 =< (20 / aps) < 4
2 frames per tick: 2 =< (20 / aps) < 3
1 frame per tick: 1 =< (20 / aps) < 2

You don´t need to round anything if you apply the second chart.

Notes:

1. You have to calculate your attacks per second value manually as the ingame character screen is rounding the values and can be misleading when applied to this chart.

Attacks per second formula = ((base weapon aps * weapon IAS) + (attacks per second from legendaries and enchantress)) * (gear IAS + skill IAS + dual wield IAS)

NEW! WW/Sprint aps breakpoints calculator (provided by Twister)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjPQvt06HFyJdHJjY1JSVEo5dkI5QUttMzY1Q0pWR2c#gid=0

2. The initial (first) WW tick has a different frame length than the rest. It is unknown why, but for the purpose of utilizing the chart, ignore the first tick.
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Special thanks to Twister who gave me parts of his gear on the PTR to find out the highest possible tick frequency which kind of forced me to continue my research and eventually figure out the exact mechanics. Big thanks for the calculator as well.

EDIT (15/11/2012): Volcanic Eruption actually does 188.5%/3 damage per tick which is 145*1.3/3 (so 30% more than the other runes), the tooltip (188%) is not exact.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 15/11/2012 09:39 GMT
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Note that the following data should be accurate but it was researched and calculated before I figured out the exact mechanics of tick frequency scaling with aps so maybe there´s a slight mistake here and there but most stuff should be fairly accurate. To get exact breakpoint numbers, apply the charts in the first post.

Tornado and Whirlwind weapon tick frequency breakpoints when dual-wielding:

MACE / SPEAR (1.20 dps)
base aps dual-w. = +15% total IAS = 1.38 aps = 13 ticks (4.33 per second)
+5% IAS gear = +20% total IAS = 1.44 aps = 14 ticks (4.67 per second)
+14% IAS gear = +29% total IAS = 1.548 aps = 15 ticks (5 per second)
+25% IAS gear = +40% total IAS = 1.68 aps = 17 ticks (5.67 per second)
+37% IAS gear = +52% total IAS = 1.824 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)

Wrath of the Berserker activated (+25% IAS):
base aps dual-w. = +40% total IAS = 1.68 aps = 17 ticks (5.67 per second)
+12% IAS gear = +52% total IAS = 1.824 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)
+27% IAS gear = +67% total IAS = 2.004 aps = 20 ticks (6.67 per second)

AXE / 1H MIGHTY WEAPON (1.3 dps)
base dps dual-w. = +15% total IAS = 1.495 aps = 14 ticks (4.67 per second)
+4% IAS gear = +19% total IAS = 1.547 aps = 15 ticks (5 per second)
+14% IAS gear = +29% total IAS = 1.677 aps = 17 ticks (5.67 per second)
+25% IAS gear = +40% total IAS = 1.82 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)
+39% IAS gear = +54% total IAS = 2.002 aps = 20 ticks (6.67 per second)

Wrath of the Berserker activated (+25% IAS):
base dps dual-w. = +40% total IAS = 1.82 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)
+14% IAS gear = +54% total IAS = 2.002 aps = 20 ticks (6.67 per second)
+32% IAS gear = +72% total IAS = 2.236 aps = 23 ticks (7.67 per second)

SWORD (1.4 aps)
base dps dual-w. = +15% total IAS = 1.61 aps = 15 ticks (5 per second)
+5% IAS gear = +20% total IAS = 1.68 aps = 17 ticks (5.67 per second)
+15% IAS gear = +30% total IAS = 1.82 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)
+28% IAS gear = +43% total IAS = 2.002 aps = 20 ticks (6.67 per second)

Wrath of the Berserker activated (+25% IAS):
base dps dual-w. = +40% total IAS = 1.96 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)
+3% IAS gear = +43% total IAS = 2.002 aps = 20 ticks (6.67 per second)
+20% IAS gear = +60% total IAS = 2.24 aps = 23 ticks (7.67 per second)
+39% IAS gear = +79% total IAS = 2.506 aps = 26 ticks (8.67 per second)

DAGGER (the complete dagger breakpoint list including weapon IAS)
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4902400739?page=2#27

Actual in-game test data:

TORNADO TICK DAMAGE
A simple test utilizing a +min damage amulet so that base weapon damage is always just one value.
27 weapon damage (10-13 base damage +17 min damage amulet
930 strength
+15% damage from Battle Rage
+84% critical hit damage

Tornado tick actual damage on screen = 64
Tornado tick actual CH damage on screen = 118
tornado tick calculated damage = 64 / (27 * 10.3 * 1.15)
tornado tick calculated damage = 20% base weapon damage

TORNADO DURATION

I have used a stopwatch and also checked the duration on the video. The duration is not affected by attack speed.

TICK FREQUENCY (1.007 attacks per second):
- first visual test (rough estimates from looking at the sprint icon)
first tick 0.675 sec. of sprint duration
second tick 1 sec.
third tick 1.3 sec.
fourth tick 1.6 sec.
fifth tick 1.9 sec.
sixth tick 2.2 sec.
seventh tick 2.5 sec.
eighth tick 2.9 sec.
ninth tick
tenth tick

TICK SCALING WITH ATTACK SPEED:

9 ticks = 0.9 aps 2h mace
9 ticks = 0.95 aps polearm
9 ticks = 1 aps 2h mighty weapon
-------
10 ticks = 1.045 aps polearm (0.95 aps + 10% IAS weapons mastery)
10 ticks = 1.007 aps spear (0.95 aps +6% weapon IAS)
10 ticks = 1.1 aps 2h mighty (1 aps + weapon 10% IAS)
10 ticks = 1.11 aps 2H mighty (1 aps + 11% weapon IAS)
-------
11 ticks = 1.121 aps 2h polearm (0.95 aps + two 9% IAS rings)
11 ticks = 1.15 aps 2h mighty weapon (1 aps + 15% weapon IAS)
11 ticks = 1.17 aps 2h mighty (1 aps + 17% weapon IAS)
-------
12 ticks = 1.1772 aps 2h mighty weapon (1.08 aps +9% IAS ring)
12 ticks = 1.18 aps 2h mighty weapon (1 aps + two 9% IAS rings)
12 ticks = 1.2 aps mace
12 ticks = 1.3 aps axe
12 ticks = 1.308 aps mace (1.2 aps + 9% IAS ring)
12 ticks = 1.3208 aps 2h mighty (1.04 aps + three 9% IAS from rings and amulet)
-------
13 ticks = 1.3335 aps 2h mighty (1.05 aps + three 9% IAS from rings and amulet
13 ticks = 1.365 aps 1h mighty weapon (1.3 aps + 5% weapon IAS)
13 ticks = 1.38 aps mace (1.2 mace + 15% IAS dual-wield)
13 ticks = 1.4 aps sword
13 ticks = 1.417 aps axe (1.3 aps + 9% IAS ring)
13 ticks = 1.428 aps 2h mighty (1.05 aps + four 9% IAS from rings, amulet and gloves)
-------
14 ticks = 1.4416 aps 2h mighty (1.06 aps + four 9% IAS from rings, amulet and gloves)
14 ticks = 1.4508 aps 2h mighty (1.17 aps + two 9% IAS rings + 6% IAS gloves)
14 ticks = 1.4605 aps 2h mighty (1.15 aps + three 9% IAS from rings and amulet)
14 ticks = 1.495 aps axe (1.3 axe + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 1.49)
14 ticks = 1.5 aps dagger
14 ticks = 1.526 aps sword (1.4 aps + 9% IAS ring, character screen 1.53 aps)
14 ticks = 1.536 aps spear (1.2 aps + 10% IAS weapons master +15% IAS dual-wield + 3% enchantress)
-------
15 ticks = 1.5428 aps (1,16 aps + three 9% IAS items + 6% IAS gloves)
15 ticks = 1.56 aps dagger (1.5 aps + 4% weapon IAS)
15 ticks = 1.56975 aps 1h mighty weapon (1.365 aps + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 1.57)
15 ticks = 1.61 aps (1.4 aps sword +15% dual-wield)
15 ticks = 1.665 aps (1.5 aps dagger + 11% IAS, character screen 1.66 aps)
-------
1.6692 aps (1.20 aps +7% weapon IAS + 15% IAS dual-wield + 9% IAS ring + 6% IAS gloves, character screen 1.67)
17 ticks = 1.6758 aps mace (1.26 aps + two 9% IAS items + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 1.68 aps)
17 ticks = 1.694 aps sword (1.4 aps + 6% IAS gloves + 15% IAS dual-wield
17 ticks = 1.725 aps (1.5 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield)
17 ticks = 1.794 aps (1.56 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield)
17 ticks = 1.815 aps (1.5 aps dagger + 6% IAS gloves + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 1.82 aps)
-------
18 ticks = 1.82 aps (1.4 aps sword + 15% IAS dual-wield + 9% IAS ring + 6% IAS gloves)
18 ticks = 1.8408 aps (1.56 aps dagger + two 9% IAS rings)
18 ticks = 1.86 aps (1.5 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield + 9% IAS ring)
18 ticks = 1.8876 aps (1.56 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield + 6% IAS gloves, character screen 1.89 aps)
18 ticks = 1.91475 aps (1.665 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield)
18 ticks = 1.95 aps (1.5 aps dagger +15% IAS dual-wield + 6% IAS gloves + 9% IAS ring)
18 ticks = 1.995 aps (1.5 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 6% IAS gloves, character screen 2.00 aps)
18 ticks = 1.998 aps (1.2 aps spear + 11% weapon IAS + 10% IAS weapon mastery + 15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
-------
20 ticks = 2.00025 aps (1.50 aps dagger + 5% weapon IAS + three 9% IAS items)
20 ticks = 2.0088 aps (1.62 aps dagger + 15% iAS dual-wield + 9% IAS ring)
20 ticks = 2.01465 aps (1.665 aps dagger + 6% IAS gloves + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 2.01 aps)
20 ticks = 2.028 aps (1.56 aps dagger +15% IAS dual-wield + 6% IAS gloves + 9% IAS ring, character screen 2.03 aps)
20 ticks = 2.13 aps (1.5 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 15% IAS dual-wield)
20 ticks = 2.2152 aps (1.56 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 2.21 aps)
20 ticks = 2.22075 aps (1.575 aps dagger + 9% IAS ring + 7% IAS amulet + 25% IAS WotB)
-------
23 ticks = 2.2308 aps (1.56 aps dagger + two 9% IAS rings + 25% IAS WotB)
23 ticks = 2.235 aps (1.5 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield + 9% IAS ring +25% IAS WotB)
23 ticks = 2.265 (1.5 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items + 15% IAS dual-wield, character screen 2.26 aps)
23 ticks = 2.3004 aps (1.62 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 15% IAS dual-wield)
23 ticks = 2.3556 aps (1.56 aps dagger + 9% + 9% + 9% + 9% + 15% IAS)
23 ticks = 2.4138 aps (1.62 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield +9% IAS ring + 25% IAS WotB)
23 ticks = 2.48085 aps (1.665 aps dagger + 15% IAS dual-wield +9% IAS ring + 25% IAS WotB)
23 ticks = 2.4975 aps (1.665 aps dagger + two 9% IAS rings + 7% IAS amulet + 25% IAS WotB, character screen 2.50 aps)
-------
26 ticks = 2.50425 (1.575 dps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 7% IAS amulet + 25% IAS WotB, character screen 2.50 aps)
26 ticks = 2.51415 aps (1.665 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items + 15% IAS dual-wield)
26 ticks = 2.64 aps (1.5 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
26 ticks = 2.772 aps (1.575 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
26 ticks = 2.8512 aps (1.62 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
-------
30 ticks = 2.86125 aps (1.635 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 8% IAS amulet + 25% IAS WotB)
30 ticks = 2.871 aps (1.635 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items + 7% IAS amulet + 15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
30 ticks = 2.8776 aps (1.635 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
30 ticks = 2.904 aps (1.65 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
30 ticks = 2.9304 aps (1.665 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB)
30 ticks = 2.94705 aps (1.665 aps dagger + three 9% IAS items +7% IAS amulet +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB +3% IAS enchantress)
30 ticks = 2.98035 aps (1.665 aps dagger + four 9% IAS items +15% IAS dual-wield + 25% IAS WotB +3% IAS enchantress)
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 17/10/2012 08:06 BST
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85 Human Rogue
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Posts: 6
hm nice researching there.. makes me wanna go home and see my speed and maybe buy another item with a bit as for the next tornado tick .. meh got to work till 4pm :(
does it make a difference then with 11% movespeed and 12%? or, like you statet theres only a bit luck with 0% and any further should spawn 5 always if i move correct?

but thx 4 that
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Really nice work.
If you wanna do more tests on movement speed I'll happily donate Hammer Jammers and Slave Bonds. With 12% boots this puts you at the capped 25%.
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@ Ragnakh: thanks. Yes I hope with this kind of info people will try to get enough IAS to achieve the next best tick :)

Don´t forget to check the aps of both your weapons (assuming you´re dual-wielding), because the tick frequency depends on the last swung weapon - you still only do 20% of main hand, but you can get more ticks through off-hand. This is a bit weird, but it´s how the game works.

See I haven´t made many tests for movement speed. I only did like 1-2 videos with base movement speed and with +12% movement speed and got a visual 5th also with base speed.

I assume how the tornado spawning works is that you have to cover a particular distance for it to spawn. I noticed this while testing tick frequency, I always triggered just one tornado, needing like two steps for that. I mean when I clicked sprint, did a step (I´m talking about a short distance) and stopped (because I don´t want to run away from targets so that they get hit by all ticks) with no tornado spawn, it only took one more step to spawn it.

I believe it depends on the distance you cover, so it should scale with movement speed. But, considering Sprint is already a 40% movement boost, not sure how gear can improve this by a lot.

@ RSLV: You posted in the double tornado topic about your tests. What is the highest +% movement speed you got? Did you ever get 6 tornadoes, even with WotB up? If not, than people should not be forced to get max movement speed.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 07/07/2012 13:58 BST
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There is a cap at 25% from items. More doesn't matter. Will test with WoTB later.
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I am not a math person, just wondering, is there a threshhold where using a spear for 10% IAS vs Axe/Mace 10crit is going to generate more fury for a tornado build?
That one is getting increasingly popular which makes it easier to make bargains of spears :D
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You don´t have to be a math person for this. You just add IAS from gear, skills (like in this case weapons master) and dual-wield, afterwards multiply base weapon speed by that number. Note that if there´s IAS on the weapon itself, you multiply the base weapon speed by the weapon IAS first and then by the sum of all the IAS from gear/skills.

Then you just check the breakpoints table. Even easier, just substract the 10 from the +% IAS gear needed in this weapon breakpoints list:

MACE / SPEAR (1.20 dps)
base aps dual-w. = +15% total IAS = 1.38 aps = 13 ticks (4.33 per second)
+5% IAS gear = +20% total IAS = 1.44 aps = 14 ticks (4.67 per second)
+14% IAS gear = +29% total IAS = 1.548 aps = 15 ticks (5 per second)
+25% IAS gear = +40% total IAS = 1.68 aps = 17 ticks (5.67 per second)
+37% IAS gear = +52% total IAS = 1.824 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)

Wrath of the Berserker activated (+25% IAS):
base aps dual-w. = +40% total IAS = 1.68 aps = 17 ticks (5.67 per second)
+12% IAS gear = +52% total IAS = 1.824 aps = 18 ticks (6 per second)
+27% IAS gear = +67% total IAS = 2.004 aps = 20 ticks (6.67 per second)

Actually, weapons master Spear is able to achieve the 23 tick breakpoint under WotB, mace isn´t:
+46% IAS gear (10% from weapons master) = +86% total IAS = 2.232 aps = 23 ticks (7.76 per second)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some examples of calculating aps:

1. Spear (1.20 aps), no weapon IAS, 10% IAS from weapons master, dual-wield 15%, enchantress focused mind 3% = 1.20 * (1 + 0.1 + 0.15 + 0.03) = 1.20 * 1.28 = 1.536

Lol not a good example, because I was actually missing the 1.527-1.539 aps area, so I tested it now.

1.536 is actually shown as 1.54 aps in the character screen but it´s only 14 ticks, not 15 ticks (1.54 aps). That´s why I mentioned that the character screen is misleading.

Anyway, in this first example, the 10% from weapons master would give you 14 ticks, usually you would get 13 ticks when dual-wielding a spear. If you had a +4% IAS gear instead of just enchantress +3% IAS buff, you would jump to 15 ticks right away.

2. Spear (1.20 aps), +11% weapon IAS, +25% WotB, +15% dual-wield, +10% weapon mastery = (1.20 * 1.11) * (1 + 0.25+0.15+0.10) = 1.332 * 1.50 = 1.998

Hahaha another number I didn´t have (missing 1.997-1.999), thanks for that. Again, the character screen aps value is misleading. It says 2.00 aps but only gives you 18 ticks, not 20 (updated).

I´ll try a 3rd example

3. Spear (1.20 aps), +15% dual wield, +10% weapon mastery, +9% IAS ring, + 6% IAS gloves = 1.20 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.10 + 0.09 + 0.06) = 1.20 * 1.40 = 1.68

Search for 1.68 in the table...

1.67-1.815 attacks per second = 17 ticks over 3 seconds = 5.67 tps

Your tornado would do 5.67 ticks per second.

One thing I came across while doing the first example test: the character screen didn´t change the aps between weapons when dual-wielding a spear in main hand and a mace in off-hand. I think this is a bug.

If you use a Spear without weapon IAS in main hand with Weapons Master and a Mace without weapon IAS in off-hand, the character screen will show the same (Weapons Master) boosted aps for both weapons, despite the fact that the Spear should be faster than the Mace. This does not apply for any other weapons as off-hand. This does not apply when one the weapons has weapon IAS.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 11/07/2012 11:05 BST
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Hey.

Okay only that simple. I made a excel and compared the various weapons based on your formulas.

Using a example gear (think mine is roughly this):
35 % crit without Weaponmaster
12 % IAS without Weaponmaster
15 % DW IAS
No IAS on the weapon

I used a formula to determine the crit per 3 secs (aka per tornado) calculating the Weapon APS * 1,12 (1,22 with spear) and determined the TPS according to your Tornado Scaling results.
I then took the "Tornado Hit per 3 secs" aka TP3S * crit chance to determine average amount of crits per tornado.
To my suprise the Axe had the best results with the parameters above with a whole 28% better then spear and only 7% better then mace. Keep in mind I am not a math person. More on Axe vs Mace at the bottom.

Centurion Spear ilvl63 1h
1,2 APS*1,37 = 1,644 and thus 15 TP3S *0,35 (crit) = 5,25 Crit per 3 sec (Tornado)

Demolisher Mace ilvl63 1h
1,2 APS*1,27 = 1,524 and thus 14 TP3S *0,45 (crit) = 6,3 Crit per 3 sec (Tornado)

Arch Axe ilvl63 1h
1,3 APS*1,27 = 1,651 and thus 15 TP3S *0,45 (crit) = 6,75 Crit per 3 sec (Tornado)

Also experimenting which rings would benefit this build more aka 9 crit vs 18 ias it would appear that Crit gives higher CritP3S.
However if you manage to get alot of IAS on gear it looks as if Mace and Axe is getting closer to eachother and Mace does have higher base dmg due to lower APS so my conclusion was this:

Spear = not so good
Mace = can work if you have 20% + IAS gear
Axe = best result with full crit gear.

IAS = worth getting but not at the expense of crit

Also since I am only calculating crits per tornado and not actual hits but using the values we get above it should represent the DPS fairly well. Since more crits per tornado gives higher benefits to your crit dmg as well.
It is worth to note though that IAS will give more LoH back which perhaps might be needed, but if you can afford stacking IAS + Crit then you prob dont need the extra LoH :) Cause you need a certain crit% to keep spinning.

I wonder though if you have IAS in the OH will it also affect the MH?

When using whirlwind you are alternating the weapons for determining the dmg. So if you are whirlwinding in a pack of monsters with sprint up would it be plausable to count your APS on the weapon as the average of MH and OH when determining the weap APS to calc average amount of ticks per tornado?
Example Axe 1,3 APS MH and Dagger 1,5 APS OH = Average 1,4 APS and use 1,4 when checking for ticks per tornado? Instead of axes 1,3 ?
Sorry if that sounds confusing, prob cause I am a bit confused, again I'm not a math person.

EDIT: Please correct me if I made any errors / wrong conclusions :)
Edited by Megamatch#2607 on 11/07/2012 13:43 BST
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Yeah but consider that adding just 2% more IAS would bring your axe to 17 ticks, mace to 15 ticks and 3% more IAS would bring your spear to 17 ticks, changing the numbers in your 35% CH chance scenario

Spear = 5.95 CHs / 3 seconds or 1.983 CHs per second
Axe = 7.65 CHs / 3 seconds or 2.55 CHs per second
Mace = 6.75 CHs / 3 seconds or 2.25 CHs per second

The more CH chance you have, the less spears trails behind but you have to consider that maces and spears have more base weapon damage than axes, which means more tornado damage...

In the end it depends on what weapon you´re able to get and then maximize its potential using breakpoints, CH damage etc. It´s kind of difficult to just say "I´m going for axe" and then don´t find one.

I think the developers put a lot of time into end game statistics of weapons to make them all viable.

The second whirlwind part. You could, but it wouldn´t be accurate. Let´s say 1.38 main hand mace and 1.82 off hand dagger. Average aps is 1.60, which means 15 ticks on average if you calculated it that way when actually, your dagger gets 18 ticks and mace 13 ticks, leaving you with 15.5 ticks average.
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13/07/2012 03:55Posted by Dwa
Also it´s very important that you take your off-hand weapon into account because tornado tick frequency depends on the aps of the last weapon you swung,


That's very interesting. one question though, does it take into account WW swings ? I mean, does WW attack change the 'last weapon you swung' ?

Reposting from the double-tornado topic, because it was an interesting question that

If the former is true then we should only aim at maximizing aps on both weapons. Otherwise we can just max aps on the main hand, then hit a barrel once and then never hit anything with a 'normal' attack again to keep the max number of ticks on the sprint tornadoes.


Yes Whirlwind alternates weapons which is visible on the character screen, which means the "last weapon swung" part is also applied.

The difference between Whirlwind and Sprint is the fact that Whirlwind alternates between weapon damage and attacks per second value of both weapons while sprint tornadoes always use the main hand weapon damage but alternate between main hand and off-hand attacks per second values, depending on the weapon you swung with last before you sprint.

So it´s a nice idea there, but it´s only applicable to a sole Sprint build (without Whirlwind).

Actually for a tornado only build, maximizing aps (meaning tick breakpoints) on the off-hand is the better option while you maximize damage on the main hand. This means you want a heavy hitting main hand with an off-hand that gives you more tornado ticks.That would work like this: swing with your 6% weapon IAS off-hand dagger (1.8285 aps) and afterwards your tornado hits will do main hand (mace for example) weapon damage and get 18 ticks instead of 13 ticks, improving the tornado damage by 38.5%
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 14/07/2012 19:52 BST
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i only get 4 tornados. 19% movement speed.

how do you manage to get 5 tornados?
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I´ve just tested it and it´s actually pretty easy. I have +12% movement speed and can get a 5th. Just try to run around a waypoint in a circle that is a bit larger than the waypoint, try to chain sprints and you´ll see 5. You don´t have to chain sprint, but you should run in a circle/pentagonal shape.

You´ll be using that kind of Sprint in real battles if the group´s not too big. The thing is, the fifth tornado spawns in the last moments of the first. I don´t think it is possible to have up 5 at the same time for three seconds, that´s why it´s not that important to get max movement speed for tornado build. You´re fine with +12% boots. It´s more important how you sprint to maximize the hits on foes (and of course, if you achieve weapon tick breakpoints through IAS).
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 14/07/2012 23:32 BST
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You do realise that as soon as anyone digs into and posts useful information in how to maximise the effectiveness of a class - blizzard just use that information to direct the next major nerf?

Post this kind of thing on another web site - NOT ON HERE!

I use a mace main with 150+ crit damage and a IAS dagger with 1200+ life on hit (with gems) and it seems to work quite well. Only got to inferno this morning though, bought a couple of weapons and transferred my tanky wizard gear onto my barb and now facerolling act 1 (38K dps, 8K armor, 600-700 ar, 26K life, 1600+ LoH, 500+ regen - 95K dps on 61% crit chance with berserker, rage and passives) ;)

The higher aps damage only really applies when you just use sprint and keep the wirlwinds for some extra dps or path clearing in which case it becomes a bit random which dps the tornados pick up. In the end like all dual wield builds - best to try to balance the main and off hand dps. Personally I like the heavy slow hitter and fast hitter combo. I use bash as my primary as well.

Generally for random mobs, I try to keep sprints on my off hand, but with harder elites mobs, that goes out the window with berserker, rage and wirlwind being used however with 60%+ crit chance and 95K dps when using those - who cares ;)
Edited by Khazul#2940 on 15/07/2012 09:33 BST
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Lol way to overreact. It´s not like these numbers give you that much of an advantage. In most cases, you won´t even notice the tick frequency increase. Also, it´s not like everyone out there will notice and read about this research, plus not everyone will be able to utilize this kind of data even if they read it.

Basically, it´s good to know the game mechanics of skills to make good decisions when gearing up. I don´t think figuring out how skills work is something that is gonna make Blizzard go "OMG! They found out! Let´s nerf this!". At the end of the day, the player who wants to figure it out will test/research it himself. I did this mainly for myself (was curious), but there was no reason to keep it to myself.
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Thanks again for the info. Nice research.

I'm having trouble matching it to my character though. Hope you can help out.

1.3 Axe in mainhand, 1.4 Sword in offhand.
12% IAS from items.

According to one of your charts that should put me at 15 ticks. My character sheet lists mainhand speed as 1.69, which should put me at 17 ticks though.

What am I missing here?
Could I drop one of the 6% IAS items without it making a difference?
Edited by RSLV#2944 on 16/07/2012 00:31 BST
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You should check each gear slot. You probably forgot the dual-wield 15% IAS bonus?

1.30 aps axe * (1 + (0.15 + 0.12)) = 1.30 * 1.27 = 1.651 aps

Oh I got it! I was also confused when I tested something yesterday and couldn´t figure it out...

It´s the girl that follows you around...her fault :p

3% IAS bonus from Focused Mind means you have a 30% total IAS bonus from gear.

1.30 * 1.30 = 1.69 aps axe
1.40 * 1.3 = 1.82 aps sword

1.67-1.815 attacks per second = 17 ticks over 3 seconds = 5.67 tps
1.82-1.998 attacks per second = 18 ticks over 3 seconds = 6 tps

Your axe is in the 17 ticks area and your sword is in the 18 ticks area, but only if your Enchantress is alive. If she´s dead (which she likes to do), you drop to 15 and 17 ticks with your weapons, respectively. If you drop 6% IAS your axe would do 15 ticks and sword 17 ticks no matter in which state the Enchantress is.

I´d say keep the IAS and hope she doesn´t die all the time lol or get 3% more IAS so you don´t rely on her that much.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 16/07/2012 16:23 BST
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Ah yes ofcourse, forgot all about her :)
Thanks for your help in clearing that up.
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thanks for all the good info
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