Diablo® III

WW barb - loh or life steal???

As the topic sais, I'd like to ask about your oppinion on WW barbs. Which do you think is better for a WW barb - life stear or life on hit???
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For you - life on hit.

LS start to become effective when you use wotb insanity/slaughter with your dps.

Ideally have some of each.
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I use lifesteal since its cheaper. Worked well enough in a3 with 40k unbuffed dps, not sure how low you can go and still live, more dps is better ofc :)
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What's your lifesteal??
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Can I also ask if someone knows how much loh you gain with sprint per second, or maybe per hit?? I want to do some calculations on that but i just don't know how loh wirks with sprint...
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Use search function of forums pls... There r maaaany detailed threads on it.
"loh vs ls" by Spankalot is a good explained one
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18/08/2012 16:36Posted by Hoggbert
I use lifesteal since its cheaper. Worked well enough in a3 with 40k unbuffed dps, not sure how low you can go and still live, more dps is better ofc :)


for me both barb and wd at around 35-40k dps unbuffed LS starts to catch up to LoH.

To get numbers you take "Dmg done" *LS * 0.2 for inferno. its the global restriction on LS 80% reduction in inferno
example 60000 * 0.09* 0.2=1080 this is 9% Life Steal.

With WW barb and dw you can get 12% Life Steal
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I know it about ls, but the setiotion with loh is different and I can't calculate what loh I get...
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After 60-70k dps Life steal is realy nice at 100k its REALY nice
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LOH when you have crap gear, change it to Life steal whe nverry good gear
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The thing with lifesteal is that it gives you your set percentage (reduced by 80% ofc) for ALL damage done, so when you do damage from tornados and WW at the same time you pump out a lot of damage per second, way way above your charsheet dps, especially when you can more or less keep wotb perma-up.

Loh doesnt scale and it has coefficients depending on skillsm so it suits tanks and low dps good, but for a dps-oriented barb lifesteal fast becomes better.

Also lifesteal motivativates you to increase your dps to increase survivability which is a good circle :)
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Thank you for your advises, but still couldn't find how loh works with sprint and WW... If anyone knows or just point me the topic, site...
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All of the the skills have a hidden parameter called a proc coefficient.

Single target moves such as bash - punish, have 100%, meaning you get 100% of your loh.

Aoe moves such as revenge tend to have lower values, revenge is 33%, so you would only get 33% of your loh.

Whirlwind's proc coefficient is 13%, this seems low but whirlwind hits 2.5 times faster than normal hence, 13% x 2.5 ~ 33%.

Sprint - Run like the wind has a proc coefficient of 20%. Some moves such as Battlerage - Bloodshed have 0%.

Just as a side note any skill which procs on a crit uses this mechanic, for example the cool down on overpower.

Lifesteal is automatically nerfed to 20% on inferno difficulty. Lifesteal does not scale with proc coefficients.

As a general rule of thumb for most ppl, loh is better in single target situations and ls is better in aoe situations.

My advice is get a bit of both.
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All of the the skills have a hidden parameter called a proc coefficient.

Single target moves such as bash - punish, have 100%, meaning you get 100% of your loh.

Aoe moves such as revenge tend to have lower values, revenge is 33%, so you would only get 33% of your loh.

Whirlwind's proc coefficient is 13%, this seems low but whirlwind hits 2.5 times faster than normal hence, 13% x 2.5 ~ 33%.

Sprint - Run like the wind has a proc coefficient of 20%. Some moves such as Battlerage - Bloodshed have 0%.

Just as a side note any skill which procs on a crit uses this mechanic, for example the cool down on overpower.

Lifesteal is automatically nerfed to 20% on inferno difficulty. Lifesteal does not scale with proc coefficients.

As a general rule of thumb for most ppl, loh is better in single target situations and ls is better in aoe situations.

My advice is get a bit of both.


yay numbers.
First time i see these for Barb skills, i wont blindley belive they are correct since no background to how those numbers where achived is present.
However they are in the same ranges of proc as For WD´s skills, so at the lowest its good pointers.

Just remember the procs are mostly per enemie hit and some skills might have a maximum value say 5 hits. but the nature of the skills mentioned it could be WW and Sprint that has some other parameter involved.

Realy interesting stuff could you link or post more info?
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All of the the skills have a hidden parameter called a proc coefficient.

Single target moves such as bash - punish, have 100%, meaning you get 100% of your loh.

Aoe moves such as revenge tend to have lower values, revenge is 33%, so you would only get 33% of your loh.

Whirlwind's proc coefficient is 13%, this seems low but whirlwind hits 2.5 times faster than normal hence, 13% x 2.5 ~ 33%.

Sprint - Run like the wind has a proc coefficient of 20%. Some moves such as Battlerage - Bloodshed have 0%.

Just as a side note any skill which procs on a crit uses this mechanic, for example the cool down on overpower.

Lifesteal is automatically nerfed to 20% on inferno difficulty. Lifesteal does not scale with proc coefficients.

As a general rule of thumb for most ppl, loh is better in single target situations and ls is better in aoe situations.

My advice is get a bit of both.


yay numbers.
First time i see these for Barb skills, i wont blindley belive they are correct since no background to how those numbers where achived is present.
However they are in the same ranges of proc as For WD´s skills, so at the lowest its good pointers.

Just remember the procs are mostly per enemie hit and some skills might have a maximum value say 5 hits. but the nature of the skills mentioned it could be WW and Sprint that has some other parameter involved.

Realy interesting stuff could you link or post more info?


http://i.imgur.com/ewTt0.png
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sweet serius shiet.

thnx
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yay numbers.
First time i see these for Barb skills, i wont blindley belive they are correct since no background to how those numbers where achived is present.
However they are in the same ranges of proc as For WD´s skills, so at the lowest its good pointers.

Just remember the procs are mostly per enemie hit and some skills might have a maximum value say 5 hits. but the nature of the skills mentioned it could be WW and Sprint that has some other parameter involved.

Realy interesting stuff could you link or post more info?


http://i.imgur.com/ewTt0.png


Thanks for the mechanics. A quick number crunch for your typical inferno ballerina barb skills: http://imgur.com/LxClY

Since the upper boundaries for LS and LoH are 3% and 1200-1300 respectively, there's a definitive upper boundary for LoH once your tornadoes are doing around 8k damage per hit.

This boundary should occur somewhere in the 30-40k dps range from my experience, but I may be wrong. The only exception would be elites with Health Link, which absolutely destroys life steal.

Now, you don't necesssarily have to trade LoH for LS or vice versa, but it's cheaper to pick the right one instead of both. And now I'm off to find some LS gear...
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http://i.imgur.com/ewTt0.png


Thanks for the mechanics. A quick number crunch for your typical inferno ballerina barb skills: http://imgur.com/LxClY

Since the upper boundaries for LS and LoH are 3% and 1200-1300 respectively, there's a definitive upper boundary for LoH once your tornadoes are doing around 8k damage per hit.

This boundary should occur somewhere in the 30-40k dps range from my experience, but I may be wrong. The only exception would be elites with Health Link, which absolutely destroys life steal.

Now, you don't necesssarily have to trade LoH for LS or vice versa, but it's cheaper to pick the right one instead of both. And now I'm off to find some LS gear...


Huh?

Upper boundary for LL is 9% (or an easily achieved 6%), with LoH probably being around 2000 (or 1200 easily achieved).

It depends on mainhand damage, but at around 60k mainhand swing damage, 8% lifesteal is roughly equal to 1000 LoH with sprint, but 3x as effective (with a similar OH) when using whirlwind.

I think I'm missing something...

At 1000 damage per hit, and 3% lifesteal, you're healing for 6 health per hit, but with LoH you're healing for 130 (with rltw).

At 10000 ofc this is multiplied by 10 for lifesteal (60vs130), and to get a tick of 10k damage you need a mainhand swing of 50k.

With the practical and easily gotten 6% lifesteal, you're healing 120hp per tick compared to 130 per tick with LoH, but WW is stronger with LL since that deals 44% wepdam per tick afaik, and goes by the same APS scaling as RLTW.
Edited by Spankalot#2274 on 20/08/2012 18:42 BST
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Thanks for the mechanics. A quick number crunch for your typical inferno ballerina barb skills: http://imgur.com/LxClY

Since the upper boundaries for LS and LoH are 3% and 1200-1300 respectively, there's a definitive upper boundary for LoH once your tornadoes are doing around 8k damage per hit.

This boundary should occur somewhere in the 30-40k dps range from my experience, but I may be wrong. The only exception would be elites with Health Link, which absolutely destroys life steal.

Now, you don't necesssarily have to trade LoH for LS or vice versa, but it's cheaper to pick the right one instead of both. And now I'm off to find some LS gear...


Huh?

Upper boundary for LL is 9% (or an easily achieved 6%), with LoH probably being around 2000 (or 1200 easily achieved).

It depends on mainhand damage, but at around 60k mainhand swing damage, 8% lifesteal is roughly equal to 1000 LoH with sprint, but 3x as effective (with a similar OH) when using whirlwind.

I think I'm missing something...


Sorry, my bad. I meant to say upper boundaries per item, since most people have to choose one over the other. The spreadsheet shows how much LoH you need in order to match 1 % life steal, given a 13 % proc chance for WW and 20 % for RLTW while Life Steal has a flat 20 % effectiveness.
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This boundary should occur somewhere in the 30-40k dps range from my experience, but I may be wrong. The only exception would be elites with Health Link, which absolutely destroys life steal.

Now, you don't necesssarily have to trade LoH for LS or vice versa, but it's cheaper to pick the right one instead of both. And now I'm off to find some LS gear...


35-40kdps unbuffed ive started to feel LS kick in compared to LoH with wd and barb so i have same experience as you on this part.
If Health link > LoH then reflectors+electrified > LS this is single fights. when faceing more then 1 at the time either is bad ive got 8.9% LS DW could get 12% and i cant speak for this but i guess reflectors reflects more then 12% dmg and dw´s .15 atk spd creates more electricity.

LS gear seems to be alot cheaper then LoH atm. but i guess a mix is going to be the best for a good time becous of these Elites mentioned

2h buff for 1.04 seem to take LS to 6% up from 3 and LoH to 1918
http://www.diablofans.com/news/1317-unofficial-patch-104-changes-class-changes-new-items-affixes-and-more/
but cant be sure of these source.
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