Diablo® III

True, but this feature would be mainly used on self found items, because of exactly what you said. What raises question marks is how big of a hit the AH will take.

edit: i am still shocked from time to time when i see a very cool class item with totally wrong stats on it. Random is random, but that random is dumb.:)

Then you're playing the wrong game, and you should just stick to D2 or find a new game instead of whining that this one is broken. Whether you like it or not, the jury is clearly out on this one - people prefer their computer games to have a sort of community, to compete, and to be able to sell/trade/buy items from each other. While the vocal minority on the forums might not, if this wasn't a model that worked, it wouldn't be one that every single game is shifting towards if it didn't work out better than the alternatives. Because, unlike popular oppinion, Blizzard actually is a successfull, thriving company that is constantly growing. That the disgruntled minority (or the 1%), are the only ones being vocal about what they see as being an issue, while the 99% of the happy population doesn't even bother to post on the forums that they're happy, does not make you right.

As for your "transfer stat" idea - what would it work on?
Would you be able to change lightning resistance to arcane?
Would you be able to change attack speed to crit chance?
Or would it be limited to changing str/dex/int/vit to each other?
Would the item be sell-able again, or would you be unable to resell it?
Would you be able to transfer main stats into main stats already on the item?
Why not just let all items drop with a XXX main stat roll then, so you could pick it yourself?

Not to mention that, once again, the game would become incredibly saturated with "good" items. A "useless" pair of gloves with 150 int, 75 dex, crit chance and crit dmg would suddenly become worth millions because you could transform the dex into vitality.

99% are happy wtf? last night i saw 112 players in Public games, I thought MILLIONs bought the !@#$. Anyway, capital based MMORPGs are nothing new. In-game currencies have been around for decades.

PoE is trying it the righteous way, focusing more on the game mechanics rather than localizing and centralizing everything to an in game auction house. So sick of auction houses, see them in every mmorpg for years and years NOTHING new about it. It could be as convenient was pushing 1 button to get a list of everything good for me, it still is trashy.

When i board a rollercoaster, I don't want to have to focus on drinking juice before we hit the flip.
Some people got the heads up on all the greatest items, set and legendaries rares etc and end up dominating the market and new comers. You say one drop could change your entire gameplay, 80M 100M sale and you're laughing. What happens when you play 450 hours, as some have and never find that?

Which part of that experience is supposed to be fun. Keeping something valuable by making sure nothing else good drops, is this mechanic something that would increase your fun value or replay value? It just sounds like a rich man saying "don't do that, then everyone will be rich and I won't be so much, anymore".

Crass behaviour, not something I blame you for but the games and society that breed this mentality as "normal" or "fun" in any way shape or form.

To all you people claiming you can't comment until you have 100s of hours played. FU.
To all you people claiming diablo is about buying and selling, FU.
My opinion is JUST AS VALUABLE as yours, so if you don't like it, FU.

Anyway....

This game is about 1 drop. 1 drop can change your game experience entirely.
What do I mean by 1 drop. Well, let's say it's a best in slot item, who cares which and for what class. When you get that 1 drop, you can go to the auction house, sell it and buy all the gear you need to farm this game efficiently.

However, there are plenty of us who have never had a decent drop. Ever. I have never had an upgrade drop for me that I thought "wow, that's awesome". I've never sold an item over 800k. I've never had an item drop worth 1m. Look at my profile, see for yourself. My gear is nothing special, but surely you'd have expected 1 drop by now? I've probably not made more than 20 million, that's including the gold I've picked up too.

Do I deserve to be a 2nd class citizen because I've only killed a quarter of the elites you have, but you have full BIS gear and I don't have 1 BIS item?

Yes, I only have 2000 elite kills on my DH and Barb each, but who the F made you chief loot council? I think an awesome drop every 100 elite kills is more than reasonable with 0 MF. Why? That's several runs of any act.

The failure in this game is that it makes us into different classes of gamers. This divides us, it divides the whole community.

We have hardcore gamers who actually play hardcore mode.
We have "hardcore" gamers who play don't play hardcore mode, but feel that Inferno is somehow "theirs" and should be hardcore "for them".
We have your average gamer (which is obviously the majority) who WANT to enjoy the game but can't because the decent gear wont drop and they can't afford it off the AH (or more importantly, wan't to experience the drops, not farm gold to buy them.

So, how do you fix this?

I can't see any other way to fix it than this:

1) Boost drop rates significantly so they are frequent.
2) Remove the AH/RMAH throttling.
3) ADD MORE CONTENT SO THE HARDCORE GAMERS CAN MOVE ON, the average gamers will catch up in their own time.

1) and 2) will make me happy as I'm not hardcore. I'm getting good drops and will be able to continue progress at my own pace WHILE HAVING FUN. The game is keeping me interested, and I get to have fun the way I want to play, not the way the hardcore gamers feel I should have to play to have fun.

3) will make the hardcore gamers happy, they already have the BIS loot and can move on to the new challenges that await them. Hardcore gamers want to feel special, so if every softcore gamer is just the same as them, then their not happy.

For once, I'm not going to suggest removing the AH/RMAH, but the throttling has to go.

True, but this feature would be mainly used on self found items, because of exactly what you said. What raises question marks is how big of a hit the AH will take.

edit: i am still shocked from time to time when i see a very cool class item with totally wrong stats on it. Random is random, but that random is dumb.:)

Why would it mainly work on self found items? That would imply that people in general are stupid and doesn't realise that any items is basicly "money". I mean, sure, I could farm 3K Essences and Tears, and use them to craft 100 gloves for 8M gold, and if I found gloves that sold for 8M, well, nothing lost! - except that the mats I just spent would have netted me 2.5M if I sold them on the AH instead, meaning I just lost money. Anything you have, can be translated into money - it doesn't matter if you find it yourself, or if you bought it. A 150 int ring with 4.5 crit, 34 Crit dmg and 9 IAS will not be "worthless" just because you found it yourself. It'll still be worth billions.

99% are happy wtf? last night i saw 112 players in Public games, I thought MILLIONs bought the !@#$. Anyway, capital based MMORPGs are nothing new. In-game currencies have been around for decades.

PoE is trying it the righteous way, focusing more on the game mechanics rather than localizing and centralizing everything to an in game auction house. So sick of auction houses, see them in every mmorpg for years and years NOTHING new about it. It could be as convenient was pushing 1 button to get a list of everything good for me, it still is trashy.

When i board a rollercoaster, I don't want to have to focus on drinking juice before we hit the flip.
Some people got the heads up on all the greatest items, set and legendaries rares etc and end up dominating the market and new comers. You say one drop could change your entire gameplay, 80M 100M sale and you're laughing. What happens when you play 450 hours, as some have and never find that?

Which part of that experience is supposed to be fun. Keeping something valuable by making sure nothing else good drops, is this mechanic something that would increase your fun value or replay value? It just sounds like a rich man saying "don't do that, then everyone will be rich and I won't be so much, anymore".

Crass behaviour, not something I blame you for but the games and society that breed this mentality as "normal" or "fun" in any way shape or form.

You're a moron. You don't seem to understand simple logic.
I'll try again, as slowly as I possibly can, and maybe you'll follow:

Only the players who DOES NOT like the direction the game is headed in, and how it has evolved, are complaining. The ones who are happy and enjoy the game will never voice their oppinion, as they either do not visit the forums (nothing to rant about, so why be here?), or simply because they're more casual players and don't know there ARE forums. You don't hear the thousands of "I got two legendaries yesterday, and the past month I found 100M worth of items" come on here and complain - you only hear the "odd one out", that hasn't found anything for the past two months, go into a frothing rage. When two of these people come together, they suddenly think that EVERYONE has the same feeling, because they found someone that agrees with their opinion.

Also, why would you ever, ever, ever, EVER join a public game? I can assure you that the VAST majority of the community are playing solo or with friends, rather than random morons with blue gear and 15K hp dying to every demon-sneeze.

07/09/2012 11:06Posted by Draco

A 150 int ring with 4.5 crit, 34 Crit dmg and 9 IAS will not be "worthless" just because you found it yourself. It'll still be worth billions.

You may call me a moron, I'll call you ignorant.

I don't play public games, I like to socialize the two don't go hand in hand. If it does, then the game's mechanic is limited.

Now repeating your point doesn't make it any more valid, so let's talk about it and get passed it. I speak from my own experience, having played the game and my WD overall a couple hundred + hours. I've found around 8-9 legendaries, about 2-3 set items none of which could sell for more than 2M at any point in time.

I don't have the "desire" to farm just to buy more items, I want to feel rewarded in other little ways, cumulative ways. Not just one big smack of a way, one drop boom you're set for the rest of your Diablo 3 gaming career. So this comes down to the general philosophy of the game, and yes I give a !@#$ because the game is not bad, diablo 2 i played for years and spent years loving diablo 1. The stark departure and the new itemization has not only irritated me. It is one thing if I came to forums, and generally it was all positive but yes, you are right, the more I read about people's experiences and how they relate to mine I feel a way.

I feel a way not because they, and I havnt had that big payoff. Everyone who has had that big payoff, you're fine, what do you have to talk about instead of deriding us who havnt had that big payoff? I don't want a big payoff, I want to grind and make my own things, some form of creative outlet in the game but there is absolutley 0 customization. It's like the general idea that shopping is "fun", are u !@#$ing kidding me? Shopping makes me want to tear off my shopped-for-clothes in rebellion.

I'm most I-rate because the game is basically a skeleton, and it's been over-burdened by the AH/RMAH philosophy which has just taken over the whole itemization process. Jay put forward his admittance, saying that unless we feel like we're about to HIT that fat loot around EVERY corner, then him and his team just aren't doing their job.

If you decide to reply. Don't insult my character or personality, we can scrap anytime big bwoy.

If you want to reply, tell me
How does this gamer differ from a Casino

Yea, but you will not want to touch that ring, mod it i mean. Use it as it is, then sell it for a lot of gold or $.
That option should be used on crap items, like Monk spirit stone for example. (100 int, 80str, crit, socket, some AR and spirit regen) That could have been a great item, but instead turns out to be vendor trash because of the stupid stats.
Other example, 1h axe (900 dps, 100 str, 245 dex), you could turn str or dex, depending on your class into something usefull.

Costs should be pretty high like 500k, hell, even 1mil would make it worth it.

Already great items, you don't need to mess with their stats, just sell them as they are for great proffit. Talking about crap here, that can, somehow, turn into decent items.

07/09/2012 12:00Posted by Draco

What stops people from putting crap items like a spirit stone on the AH with 250 Int (helms can roll 300 int but only 200 dex), 100 vit, 4% crit, socket and sweeping winds damage (something that'd be entirely useless normally due to int instead of dex), and sell it for tons of cash because a person could just transform the int into dex when they've bought it?

You may call me a moron, I'll call you ignorant.

I don't play public games, I like to socialize the two don't go hand in hand. If it does, then the game's mechanic is limited.

Not sure what this means. You like to socialise, so public games should be possible or what?

it's possible, could be expanded on. DII lobby was somewhere to socialize for example. Imo, I imagined each act having a lobby room where 32 people could come in and out, afk, vendor, trade, merchant, test skills etc etc. Why i say a lobby is because the townships are limited. Granted i'm coming with an mmorpg mindset so please forgive me this is just imo.

And you're the exception that proves the rule. I mean, last week I found five legendaries (which sold for a combined 20M) in an hour, before even reaching the bridge. On the other hand, next two days, I didn't find any at all, during five runs. I found two legendary set items two days ago, but I've found none yesterday or today. Random is Random. I also do five times the DPS that you do, so my killing rate is probably four times as high, mind you. Meaning I will inevitably find more loot than you.

Killrate and farm efficiency are a part of it, can't move as quick or kill half as quickly so there's that. WD however is the only class i'm interested in, n with an equivalent set of gear I doubt i'd farm as efficiently as a DH, Barb, Monk or Wiz. Don't get me wrong, WD can output some sweet DPS. Just inefficient at times, now with a suffering mana pool so I am demotivated at various levels, not just the loot hunting itself.

Two things:
If you don't have the desire to grind gold/gear to be rewarded, you completly missed the point of the entire diablo franchise. It is a dungeon crawler, the entire point of the game is beating it again and again and again to make your character stronger through gear.
And you have something that "rewards you in other little cumulative ways". It's called Paragon levelling. The more you farm, the stronger you get, and the better loot you'll recieve.

What I meant here, is that for example D2 had more to aquire than just items. Little things to find, like gems in D3 or recipes. These two things I enjoy when they drop but if they don't, theyre not game-changing to the point that I miss them when they don't drop.
The cumulative curve meaning stronger you get more loots etc just caters to the divisive nature of a capital market system. You mentioned you had at a point over 1Billion gold. Thats sick imo, unfarmable. Sure you may hit the right spots, at the right time, catch the right deals, sell the right gear honestly i've got no clue how you made 1B and don't want to know. Paragon levels is not what I meant, because it is directly tied into the former philosophy of an endless item hunt which is more profitable for blizzard than it is entertaining for the individual faced with steep inflation and the new MF cap.

You're the outliers, or you don't realise how much a stream of low-cost items are worth. I've made some big breaks, but the best Item I had drop was a legendary helm for 50M. On the other hand, I've lost more than 150M since the legendary patch due to buying and reselling items when I got better ones, due to the fact that they lost value. Actually, my entire profit from "good" legendary items have been eaten up by that, I think :p.
Just keep collecting 100K to 1M items and sell them. It adds up over time.

This, been trying for weeks, shooting everything under 200K of which a nice tidy portion vanishes to the AH, flipping is just not my thing I am no good at it it is a knowledge game and that knowledge is just not my taste.

And you are about to hit that fat loot around every corner. You just dont, because of bad luck. Try again later.
Tried it for months man, so demotivated after all the trying. Running different builds was nice for a bit, but ZBears are just so effective on a budget set. I can't honestly earn an upgrade farming gold, and farming items provide no guarantee that within the next 100-300 hours i'll drop anything worth more than 10M at the time (when a decent Upg could run me 15-150+M), even more demotivating.

No game differs from "a Casino", because every game is the same fundamental thing:

You put in a value (time, money, skill, luck).
You expect a reward (levels, gear, harder content).

Note that this is a Hack and Slash. The game pretty much SHOULD feel like you almost never get the godly items, because then they wouldn't be godly, they'd be average. It'd turn the value of gear into "zero", like it is on WoW now - no one cares if you have a max-lvl weapon in WoW, because everyone can get it by now, and it's the strongest around so everyone will want it. On the other hand, people will drool over a 1.3K dps 1H with 100% crit dmg, socket, and 900 LoH.

The reason I used Casino is because you pay for the "chance" to win. Many games you invest time into and see a solid return. Take FFXIV for instance. I invested about 70 hours into crafting, at the end of it I was able to make any item my character needed at a far-reduced price, and could spec a +1 for a friend or guildmate. In D3 I've invested about 200+ hours into my WD and there's no result of the sort, no means for me to benfit others or myself, just a WD who can moderatley clear A3.

07/09/2012 12:41Posted by Muldin

I think the game is rewarding now :) i love patch 1.04 and so does my band of friends

07/09/2012 12:41Posted by Muldin

I think the game is rewarding now :) i love patch 1.04 and so does my band of friends

06/09/2012 16:55Posted by SanLeon

20th = torchlight 2, so in my case they have few days for a loot fix.

07/09/2012 16:02Posted by Unleashed

This was one of the better responses in while because; They let us know at least a bit what is going on, silence kills.