Diablo® III

New Natalya's Set!

How does it compare to the old set?
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Better in stats, but if you vault a lot take old one, infinite Discipline on old, some boost on new.
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It obsoletes the old one.
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27/10/2012 17:25Posted by Sarastrasza
It obsoletes the old one.


That is just plain stupid and naive, and very arrogant to say when you have gear above 2 billion gold. It misleads entry level players without the experience of what discipline does for you.

As I've said many times before, the "legacy is better" versus the "the new nats is superior" is a stupid and pointless conflict, which neither helps nor informs players who seek either.

Both sets have their pro's and con's. Legacy has an ability which really is amazing, the 2 disc regen is nothing less, and those who claim otherwise either lie or speak against their better judgement. New Nat's (we really need a new name for this, or am I the only one who thinks that lol) approaches discipline by a bulk size you can use from, then having to refreshing it one way or the other.

In terms of stats even good mid-range rolled gear is on par with good low-even new Nat's, so you gain a significant higher dps from new nat's. In terms of cost, high-end rolls Legacy is twice and upwards in cost.

In terms of discipline, new nat's have a +20 discipline bonus, and while discipline is important, you can use various approaches to gain it. Some players, especially those dual wielding, have great experiences using Night Stalker, others use Multishot Supressing Fire, others bulk up using +10 on chest/quiver. Then again some players chose to ignore the 4 set bonus of new nats, using either Andariel or Mempo, and get disc from quiver/chest/SoJ. When it comes to discipline, it is not a straight simple answer, as it comes down to your dps, what MP level you want to play on, how you play to begin with and how you prefer to play, etc, etc.

In terms of dps, it is my experience that legacy (I have both sets), both medium-rolled Legacy vs new nat's, as high-end rolled, is 20-25% lower in dps (in average), and that the things that really boost your dps isn't so much the set, as it is mainly weapon, then quiver/ring/gloves/bracers....the kitchen sink.

There is no straight answer to which set is best. It depends on many things. Only two things are certain: Low end items of either set really won't help anyone and are cheap, high end-roll items of both sets can help anyone but are very very expensive.

Spend a few millions of a medium set new nats and find your approach to how you use discipline and how you like to play DH.
Edited by Cottonface#1659 on 27/10/2012 19:14 BST
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It obsoletes the old one.


That is just plain stupid and naive, and very arrogant to say when you have gear above 2 billion gold. It misleads entry level players without the experience of what discipline does for you.

As I've said many times before, the "legacy is better" versus the "the new nats is superior" is a stupid and pointless conflict, which neither helps nor informs players who seek either.

Both sets have their pro's and con's. Legacy has an ability which really is amazing, the 2 disc regen is nothing less, and those who claim otherwise either lie or speak against their better judgement. New Nat's (we really need a new name for this, or am I the only one who thinks that lol) approaches discipline by a bulk size you can use from, then having to refreshing it one way or the other.

In terms of stats even good mid-range rolled gear is on par with good low-even new Nat's, so you gain a significant higher dps from new nat's. In terms of cost, high-end rolls Legacy is twice and upwards in cost.

In terms of discipline, new nat's have a +20 discipline bonus, and while discipline is important, you can use various approaches to gain it. Some players, especially those dual wielding, have great experiences using Night Stalker, others use Multishot Supressing Fire, others bulk up using +10 on chest/quiver. Then again some players chose to ignore the 4 set bonus of new nats, using either Andariel or Mempo, and get disc from quiver/chest/SoJ. When it comes to discipline, it is not a straight simple answer, as it comes down to your dps, what MP level you want to play on, how you play to begin with and how you prefer to play, etc, etc.

In terms of dps, it is my experience that legacy (I have both sets), both medium-rolled Legacy vs new nat's, as high-end rolled, is 20-25% lower in dps (in average), and that the things that really boost your dps isn't so much the set, as it is mainly weapon, then quiver/ring/gloves/bracers....the kitchen sink.

There is no straight answer to which set is best. It depends on many things. Only two things are certain: Low end items of either set really won't help anyone and are cheap, high end-roll items of both sets can help anyone but are very very expensive.

Spend a few millions of a medium set new nats and find your approach to how you use discipline and how you like to play DH.


the fact remains, if you have ~60 disc then you can permanently gloom with nothing but prep, and "new nats" does have a name, Solace, "legacy" has one too, Wrath, why not use those!

I would say Wrath has the edge in the low-mid budget, with rares winning the bottom end and Solace being the clear, no questions asked (except mempo perhaps) winner in the high-high end.

I wrote a Poem to explain this.

Legacy Nats With Shadow Power
Will make you believe you can stand still and Devour
Your Survival will be weak
Your DPS will be bleak
Better off with Ivory Tower.
Edited by Sarastrasza#2108 on 27/10/2012 19:59 BST
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Haha! That poem made my day :D

But he seriously has a point in what he's saying.

Thumbs up and happy hunting guys.
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the fact remains, if you have ~60 disc then you can permanently gloom with nothing but prep, and "new nats" does have a name, Solace, "legacy" has one too, Wrath, why not use those!

I would say Wrath has the edge in the low-mid budget, with rares winning the bottom end and Solace being the clear, no questions asked (except mempo perhaps) winner in the high-high end.


First, yeah, why don't we use those names. Probably will confuse some at first, but just never thought of it, as legacy is the lingo of the forum :)

Second, I agree that with 50-60 discipline and Backup Plan you can move and gloom very comfortably. I have said this aswell, but then I got "you just need 30 disc and NS and 2000% crit and you are fine". Legacy 4 set is a tool for discipline, nothing more, and there are many tools you can utilize for discipline. As I said, some bulk up on disc, some use this, some use that. At the end of the day it comes down to what you do, where you play and thus forth. That is also why I find this biggering back and forth between what set is best stupid.

Third, I do not agree with the high-high end. There are at the end of the day things one has to take into consideration. I would more be inclined to say, that once you reach a certain level of gear, it comes down to technique and skill; and to get there a few billions.

However, your description of low-mid / bottom / high-end is perhaps the best ways to approach the subject, and rather than to discuss what is better entry level players should consider where they are and what their budget is, before venturing into either Solace or Wrath. It takes away the focus on using Green for the sake of it and put focus on what will improve you here and now. Thank you for that input and I hope many will rethink their current situation based upon it :)

Lets end this with a poem aswell :)

Of Legacy, some not a fan
They spend so much gold on alternative gear,
that it makes them glow
They can kill eveything far and near,
but walking is slow
Sadly, for movement, they cannot get a Back up Plan


Peace out :)

PS: The Ivory Tower was cruel lol
Edited by Cottonface#1659 on 27/10/2012 22:05 BST
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At least there are some sophistication in the DH forum
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^In your post you request people to address "legacy nats" as wrath, but in your poem you refer to it as "legacy nats" yourself :O -why? It could easily say "natalya's wrath..." Now with that huge question out of the way, i will move on to answer OP question :D

Legacy nats:
Makes you more free, you never have to think about managing your discipline, it will always be there for you to use. Its easy to get used to, farming with a permanent empowered shrine makes stuff easy and comfortable - It's all about the comfort, cut down the downtime between monsters you kill, and get more loot per minute - it makes the game feel more smooth. Downtime is not calculated in your DPS, so if you like higher numbers on that magic white number in your character profile, you might get disappointed. It's highly unlikely(not impossible though) you will reach the top 10 dps spot on D3 progress.
To sum it up in bulletpoints:

+Super fun time
- Bye bye top 10 dps d3 progress :(

New nats:
higher stat points. Stat points are fun.
To sum it up in bulletpoints:

+higher stat points
- No super fun time - only regular
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Your Survival will be weak
Your DPS will be bleak
[/b]


Nice poem. ^^ Though it doesn't really follow imo, that if you have legacy, you'll end up playing glass. Still depends entirely on your build. Right now, I haven't upgraded my DH's gloves and amulet (they are a lot weaker than what's out on the market now) because I dumped 200 mil on another character instead of continuing on improving my DH. but if I did those upgrades and used the manticore, I can be around 120-140k dps (depending on the manti) without steady aim or SS, over 400+ all res, and around 68-70k HP with amethyst on helm... Not really godly stats, but I think that's a good place to be in if you have below 400 mil gold.
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Anything a high end solace user can do, a high end legacy player will be able to do better.
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Cool, thanks for replying ProHacker ;)
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