Diablo® III

Feedback. Listening to it and Acting on it.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/14/how-feedback-works-and-why-it-matters/#continued

Yes, this is from WoWInsider and speaks directly to the WoW community, more importantly it adresses the forum communities.

This should be a must read before posting imo. Alot of things in this article I can learn from myself, having been guilty a few times of throwing virtual chairs at Devs and CMs.
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Community
Posts: 2,796
This article is a pretty good read indeed, and even though it speaks a lot about the World of Warcraft community, it is still very relevant to the StarCraft and Diablo communities as well.
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MVP - WoW, StarCraft II
90 Worgen Druid
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Posts: 17,744
I was just reading this article this morning when Zarhym posted a link to it on the US WoW forums.

Personally I liked it very much.

15/11/2012 15:51Posted by Ferelith
This should be a must read before posting imo.


Indeed, but one should bear in mind that often people feel like their feedback is being ignored when they don't see immediate action being done about problems that are of common discussion. This is understandable, but however, just because a solution or feature change isn't being presented immediately does not mean it is not being discussed or considered internally at Blizzard.

This is important to remember.
Edited by FeralWorgen#2478 on 15/11/2012 16:13 GMT
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Just picking out a quote from the first paragraph

I find this especially odd on a forum where community managers regularly engage with posters

Really, this only applies to the US forums when talking about Diablo.

Until recently (we're talking a couple of days ago), the Diablo EU forums had been almost entirely abandoned by any form of Blue or Green which makes the below quote ring true;
soliciting feedback that they don't actually look at.


What i'm getting at I suppose is that it doesn't matter that much if a suggestion doesn't get implemented, but having no vocal CM's at all in the forum is disheartening and will only lead to non-constructive posts because people feel like they're being totally ignored.

If past experience can be used to predict the future, it's almost certain that in a few days the CM's will vanish again and not heard from for another month.
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@Curoch and other like-minded forum surfers, the CMs on the EU do read and sometimes even engage with us and quite honestly, it is frequent for a 1 time pay game. I would never expect a CM to be active 24/7 in forums for a game that is not subbased and also feel players here expect far too much.
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Perhaps I've been spoilt from my days in the WoW forums. But I guess that is what I've grown accustomed to from Blizzard.
I don't play SC2 so i have no idea of the frequency of Blue posts over (EU) there but i'm gonna guess it's higher than in D3's EU forum.

I don't wanna start an arguement but I don't feel i'm expecting too much by expecting the CM's to show they are actually here. Rather than lurking in the shadows because we don't pay a subscription.
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MVP - WoW, StarCraft II
90 Worgen Druid
9180
Posts: 17,744
15/11/2012 16:32Posted by Curoch
or Green


Bear in mind that the majority of the green posters who used to post around here quite often are actually WoW MVPs. Whilst we enjoyed Diablo, for many of us, WoW is our main game, so WoW is the place where we generally focus our posts.

As can be expected with any normal player, one posts where you feel most comfortable. I used to participate quite a bit here on the Diablo forums, but Diablo is not my main game. I played it mostly for the story. As soon as I was done with that, I returned mainly to WoW.

If you would like to see more green posts around here though, and you see someone who you think would make a great poster in green text, why not send a recommendation to
Community-EN@blizzard.com? You can also recommend yourself. They don't mind that!
Edited by FeralWorgen#2478 on 15/11/2012 17:01 GMT
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I fully believe that blizzard takes feedback from its player base seriouly -however-

The lack effort the past months to provide answers/ statements concerning topics that lead to a lot of unrest and discussions on these very forums, is really hard for me to understand. 3 examples:

-Why are loot-tables, i.e. drop percentages, kept secret? (only a statement on WHY would already satisfy).

-Were the insane drop in gem prices last month indeed a result of duping and has said duping method been combated now? Does blizzard have any clue about the amount and scale of cheating that actually takes place?

-There has been a lot of critique on the social aspect of this game. We have no ability to make clans, no ability to make our own (customized) public games, very little chat options etc etc. It SEEMS like features such as these would be relatively simple to implement and benefit nearly all players immensly. Yet, as far as I know, there has never been a statement why the current interface gives such limited options. This especially surprises me because the social aspect was much better done in previous blizzard games (diablo 2, warcraft 3, WoW etc).

These are the kind of topics that people want statements on (and are not getting). And this is why some feedback on this forums takes on an angry tone. Let me also say that the patches so far have not been bad and that they prove that the developers listen to feedback from the players, at least to a certain degree.

All of this is from my personal perspective, of course.
Edited by Crius#2185 on 15/11/2012 17:21 GMT
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@ Cirus, we are not entitled to any answers or owed anything. When directions in development constantly change due to unforeseen circumstances. Not having made statements previously on upcoming projects does keept it from having to be explained and retracted if the project is forced a different direction.

The D3 experience has not been without bumps, flaws and holes along the way but it is no longer as close to the edge of oblivion it once was. We do get updated when the Devs feel they are ready to let the community in.
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@Ferelith: I'm not talking about entitlement or owing in any way. I am also not asking about statements on upcoming projects. So how is your response in any way relevant to what I wrote?
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I think that the CMs do a really good job, here. Like the girl who feels that her suggestion about pegasus mounts in WoW was taken into account, I also have a few of my own that were implemented into D3 :D

So I continue to post my feedback / suggestions on the US forums (I'm french, but it sure feels there is no point to posting in the french forum). I don't even bump my threads ; the last few ones didn't get a single reply, but I'm confident they were read by Blizzard employees. I'm mature enough to realize that it's all that matters.

I played Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 (and a lot !), but this is the first time I'm getting involved in the community. The feeling is really great. Diablo 3 is this huge evolving project, and you can feel that Blizz wants to make it the best they can. It's really commendable, when most of the other gaming companies don't care (or don't care as much). Most gaming companies just consider their customers a bunch of kids and think "okay the game is done, that crap is good enough for those cash cows". This is so obviously NOT the way Blizz treats its customers.

You might consider my post brown-nosing but it's really not, since I have absolutely nothing to gain out of it. Those are my honest feelings - those of a satisfied customer who spent 1000 hours into the game and who is still counting. I'm not a fan of RTSs so I don't really dig Starcraft, and the art-style of WoW turns me off, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on Blizzard's next projects ! When I played Final Fantasy IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX and X, I thought that Square was the best gaming company ever, but Blizzard is rapidly taking their place in my heart (especially after the failures that were XIII and XIII-2).
Edited by ArmorVil#2795 on 16/11/2012 00:15 GMT
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1. Allow other stats to give an edge for a character
Let's say a Barbarian with +500 dex get x% Movement Speed or Attack Speed. Allow an option to let us choose which stat we would like to have. +500 Int gives us x% elemental damage
or a Wizard with +xxx Str will have x% chance to activate Shielding affix.

2. Allow better quality gems to drop
Better quality gems' drop rate should be slightly lower or similar to legendaries. Not everyone have the gold to buy recipes AND craft the top notch gems.

3. Allow us to use the Blacksmith to reroll gear
Here's the idea, let us choose 1 gear that we would like to reroll, get 10 other rare gears to 'sacrifice' for the reroll. Let's say we want Str, if the sacrificed gears has Str in it, there will be x% chance to roll Str into your new gear. This idea is a lil raw, can be improvised. The chances for good roll do not need to be high, just need to give us players hope and alternative from vendoring all the ID-ed junks.

4. Super uber bosses
Since there's infernal machine, why not have an event that allow us to fight all the bosses in one place. Reward can be as simple as a one of the key drop. Just for fun.

Anyway, I am glad that Blizzard applied one of my suggestion some time back, in regards of opening Resplendent Chest with 5 NV will yield rares. Cheers.
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Im very impressed, this kind of remind me of Elder Scroll Online.
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A good read indeed :)
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Danellos
MVP
90 Worgen Druid
Followers of Medivh
8310 Edited by FeralWorgen#2478 on 15/11/12 16:13 (GMT)
I was just reading this article this morning when Zarhym posted a link to it on the US WoW forums.

Personally I liked it very much.

15/11/2012 15:51
Posted by Ferelith
This should be a must read before posting imo.

Indeed, but one should bear in mind that often people feel like their feedback is being ignored when they don't see immediate action being done about problems that are of common discussion. This is understandable, but however, just because a solution or feature change isn't being presented immediately does not mean it is not being discussed or considered internally at Blizzard.

This is important to remember.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is quite true and works the same way on many games forums where people don't see what is going on behind the scenes.

I was once pretty much your counterpart on Runescape, I was a player moderator and manys the time when people would whine about something and expect it to be sorted in a matter of hours, many times big issues were fixed the same day but Rome was not built in a day*

As a player mod while I didn't have more information than the rest of the community I was made more aware of changes that would be coming up if they would not give an unfair advantage and this is the thing, why would a company give one or two people privileged information and run the risk of favoritism and wrecking economies?

*While Rome was not built in a day, I also wasn't working on that job ;)
Edited by Sparhawke#2638 on 18/11/2012 00:10 GMT
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I fully believe that blizzard takes feedback from its player base seriouly -however-

The lack effort the past months to provide answers/ statements concerning topics that lead to a lot of unrest and discussions on these very forums, is really hard for me to understand. 3 examples:

-Why are loot-tables, i.e. drop percentages, kept secret? (only a statement on WHY would already satisfy).

-Were the insane drop in gem prices last month indeed a result of duping and has said duping method been combated now? Does blizzard have any clue about the amount and scale of cheating that actually takes place?

-There has been a lot of critique on the social aspect of this game. We have no ability to make clans, no ability to make our own (customized) public games, very little chat options etc etc. It SEEMS like features such as these would be relatively simple to implement and benefit nearly all players immensly. Yet, as far as I know, there has never been a statement why the current interface gives such limited options. This especially surprises me because the social aspect was much better done in previous blizzard games (diablo 2, warcraft 3, WoW etc).

These are the kind of topics that people want statements on (and are not getting). And this is why some feedback on this forums takes on an angry tone. Let me also say that the patches so far have not been bad and that they prove that the developers listen to feedback from the players, at least to a certain degree.

All of this is from my personal perspective, of course.


+100
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@ Cirus, we are not entitled to any answers or owed anything. When directions in development constantly change due to unforeseen circumstances. Not having made statements previously on upcoming projects does keept it from having to be explained and retracted if the project is forced a different direction.

The D3 experience has not been without bumps, flaws and holes along the way but it is no longer as close to the edge of oblivion it once was. We do get updated when the Devs feel they are ready to let the community in.


-100 for weak reply. You make Cirius look stupid, while he clearly is not...
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Yeah, I've always seen this thing in there. I have written sort of a reminder on that back when I had a little bit more time to refresh content on my blog... For WoW it is so obvious tbh. Classic was something amazing from so many points of view cuz of the time it happened and the territory it had to chart in so many ways. Then ppl asked for more (and less ppl needed for raids:p) and TBC was born, ladder, time spent meant more content witch to me seems natural tbh...you don;t see 3rd place athletes whine to the board that they want the gold medal too...basically, you don't get rewards and you shouldn't get them in the same manner another more dedicated person is. "I play 3 hrs per week and would liek the same progress as the hardcore no lifer with 5 raids / week type thing".
Then ppl started to QQ and we had WotLK. Flying mounts went on, some different and new mechanics in encounters, quests etc...wintergrasp, it was all laid out nicely over a good storyline (unlike everything else to me became chaotic and well...strange and patched together) and even more so, HC raids and epix for every1 (cuz as I always like to say: a noob in epix is still a noob).
Suddenly the left over vetereans and others that for some reason never heard of my amazing quote about epix and noobs felt offended by the lack of delimitation that gear provided (even tho that exact thing many times only left out more casual players that made you weep during raids when you saw how good they did) and many other things mentioned back then could have been summarized as "things in vanilla" ...were blablabla...
And guess what?! a return to the roots came. The original father continents got reinvented (even tho as I mentioned before...desolace was still desolate and STV was only less tempting to me. there was much content that could have been improved instead of dramatic change..but we move on to avoid the same old labeling called nostalgia), we flew everywhere, hell Thrall was missing!, we got blue gear back :> and epix were epix for soem time. We had older raids reinvented, cities rebuilt etcetc... this was all clearly what ppl wanted right?! RIGHT?! You can see this through out the QQ ing!!
Well no. "Cata is the worst expansion blablabla" "it killed WoW", etc... well guess what ppl? WE KILL IT! (and also it aint dead :p). To me other things didnt feel the same and made me quit after 5 years of playing but less about that.

Point is, blizz did listen and I am not very sure it was a good thing. When patching such a huge machine that WoW one can only expect that screwing with a nut in once place might loosen a bolt somewhere else. For example: summoning stones great but "i cba to run there" or man this guy is a noob lolgear chat type LFG that required ppl to be on THAT chat made dungeons and PVP almost dead! heck from 1 minute queue in PVP i suddenly had a year of 15 minutes +! etc. So they work their assez off and make the proper changes only to find that: "the world is dead now, no reason to leave OG". My opinion? Blizz, pls listen to us less :p

ps. here's my blog: lulcraft.blogspot.com
Edited by uZu#2275 on 21/11/2012 23:42 GMT
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Posts: 291
It sometimes feels as if Blizzard and all their customers form two giant gangs intently staring at one side of things and refusing to see the other. For my part this article misrepresents what has always been my biggest problem with Blizzard for the past 5 years or so: that their games are constantly changing in ways I dislike. (I won`t include SC2 in this since it`s a totally different animal and a thoroughly great game which isn`t easily trivialized, and the changes made to it are subtle.)
Not that small changes are bad in themselves. And even less so bugfixes and new content. But I think that if you loaded up vanilla on one computer and MoP on another and played them simultaneously for a while you`d realize that they`re not the same game. It`s not that they`d be two versions of the same game. They`re totally different games. Like Pac Man and Donkey Kong,

To use a circus analogy, the tent is there to keep the atmosphere and to shut out the world outside. Since there`s just one entrance it takes time to get people in and out and there`s limited seating because the tent canopy blocks seating expansions. So you remove the tent flaps here and there to make room for seating and more entrances until pretty soon you`re sitting in the middle of the field with the sunlight in your eyes so you can`t see the trained seals anymore. Then you hire half naked women with plastic smiles to walk around selling popcorn, party hats, circus afros and beer. Then you add a pool area, slot machines, skill cranes and love canals. And then you add loudspeakers so there can be commercials blaring in your ear through the show and organize bus travel from the inner cities to fill up the expanded stadium. Pretty soon what was once a circus is now a fair full of drunks and people who wouldn`t watch a line dance if you paid them.
My point with the analogy is that commercialism kills quality if it`s taken too far, which I would suggest it has been by Blizzard. Some of the point of any form of escapism is that the illusion remains credible, which requires at least some consistency. It also helps if the escape is somewhat esoteric and if it requires a certain interest, commitment and even skill to partake in it. What doesn`t help is to try and make one product to fit everyone`s needs as if you`re making toasters or something, when what you`re really doing, or should be doing, is making a cultural statement.

Many of the people who are "loud" are like an opera audience complaining about the guy shouting "HOT DOGS!" at the back, since he distracts from the people shouting in Italian on stage, and because he didn`t used to be there before the opera house decided to add to its income over their protests. These people didn`t want the changes, the "improvements" and the "progress" since they felt it destroyed immersion and dumbed WoW right down to the lowest common denominator where it has remained.
While this doesn`t apply to Diablo which is meant to be a simple game, the commercialism aspect certainly does. "If you just sign here we promise you clowns next week. Or maybe next month. Definitely within a year or two, or possibly in the future when we`re happy with our clown solutions, although they probably won`t be the clowns you wanted. But just pay us now and watch the cycling horses and the bearded lady for six months and we`ll work on the clowns. Honest!"
This is how we`re being strung along by modern gaming companies who release half finished games, expecting customers to wait for months for patches, bugfixes and DLC that should have been in the game to begin with. And this practise was pioneered by Blizzard when they released the very first expansion I can remember for the original Diablo. Previously gaming companies might release sequels, but they were always full games which were completed before release, not after. The business model Blizzard developed and which might have been fine if the quality remained high has spread like a plague in the gaming world until even the most mediocre titles try to increase profits by tacking DLCs onto them, with what amounts to removed content being withheld for profit motives. This is the real issue here since it is basically like selling cars without headlights or with missing seats before asking for more money to install the missing components. This would therefore border on fraud and I certainly consider it a malicious business practise, which is quite a bit more important in my estimation than whether or not Blizzard "listens" to feedback. I have a feeling that the business model somewhat trumps community feedback.
Edited by Fishslap#2608 on 27/11/2012 18:20 GMT
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