Diablo® III

Diablo 3 - The road NOT taken

This isn't going to be another of your usual "diablo 3" sucks (as i think this game is awesome), and it isn't going to be another "barbs are OP" even though they are.

This thread is going to be about options the developer team has had over the half year since the game has been out, and what wrong choices they made. My intention in this post is not to start a typical cry thread, but a real discussion that Blizzard can read AND learn from in order to make this game better for us all.

So after the long introduction i'll get on with what I have to say.

1. Economy - The fact that there even is an AH is GREAT, truly a good idea, because if there was none - a black market would rise, which would make the same problems only less controlled.
The problem with this is that once you have given out a gold AH and RMAH (which is a whole bigger story), you need to understand now that this isn't a normal "pc game" but it is now a fully operating Economy.
That being said here are the problems:

  • Gold sinks - There is none. Each patch the game becomes easier, hence less people need to repair items, and more than that every patch the repair prices are lowered.
  • Duping - Once you release the AH duping is annoying, that's true. But once you release RMAH duping is a felony. If I buy from RMAH a $250 bow and then dupe it once, i actually created $250 out of thin air (no work at all). [not to mention there are even gold duping videos running over youtube from way back in patch 1.0.3]


How to fix this you ask?

  • Gold sinks - Gem upgrading has a fail rate which will make you lose the whole gem, so when you do get to a radiant star it will mean something and there will be little of those, and not trillions like in the market atm.
  • Duping - If it has been proved that someone has been hacked and a rollback has been initialized - the account that so called "hacked" him should be blocked OR at a minimum rolled back also


2. Game content.
The biggest problem with the current game is that there is no endgame content, meaning that once a character has finished the game (killed diablo) there is pretty much nothing left to do.
Sure the real hardcore players look for the thrill of being the BEST and will have the proper motivation to be able to finish MP10 and get to Paragon 100, but for the main player mass - this isn't interesting. We want something real, a proper challenge, not finish ACT 3 for the 1000000th time just with each enemy having +10% dps and 150% hp - that's damn boring.

The last patch 1.0.5 brought in the Infernal Machine, a very interesting idea.
People spent days farming for keys and trying to get organs in order to achieve the perfect ring, this made people spend more gold, the inflation went down a tad and now that people have got a good ring - they don't need another, the whole infernal machine has now become as useless as whimsyshire.

3. Class equality.
We all know that the classes aren't equal. I don't want to add anything here as it's obvious what the problems are, just go read another QQ thread on barbs / hunters being so strong, or see how a 50mil barb can stand in unlimited amount of monsters + elites in MP 10 and stay full health without moving or attacking at all.

My point
Listen to the community, the people here bring up great ideas. ideas that you (Blizzard devs) should give more attention to.
For instance what's up with this ring thing? It is pretty useless.. If it was better it would be BiS (like you made the http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/triumvirate which gives 18% damage bonus even before we start looking at the other affix) and as it is now.. not really worth the hassle - Instead, once you have the whole machine worked up.. got the 3 organs... you now have an option to go to the blacksmith and upgrade an item of your choice, YES upgrade. You give the item of your choice to the blacksmith and he will upgrade one affix giving it a 10% bonus.
Each time you upgrade an item it will get a little blue (1) next to it [next will be (2) then (3).. you got the point]. Each time you take that item for another upgrade it will have a 10*UpgradeLVL chance to fail.
Meaning first time 0% fail chance, 6th time will be 50% chance.
Upon fail - item is gone, item inflation is down, and there is a real challenge in finishing the whole business.

Instead of trying to make a market reset with every patch, when you introduce new rings and amulets / new legendaries, try and make the game balance itself.

http://www.d3rmt.com/auction-house/gold/eu/
This site shows that status of the Gold to Euro, pretty clear that many people are leaving the game and the gold and item inflation is huge while no real gold sink exists.
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+1
Right in the spot. Maybe theyll listen, once.
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Nice.

I don't have a lot of issues with the game, but the issues I do have all revolve around the AH and the economy.

Spot on dude.
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While I agree on the goldsinks missing. Don't need to be gem failing could also be the gambling like in D2 and don't discount the 15% does take some gold out.

Death could also have a gold penalty or and xp penalty you could buy out from.

Actually the worst is gems right about now because they don't get destroyed.

The end game missing I have never understood.

What exactly was the great end game in other ARPGs?

Wasn't it in essence just the same?

Running the same content again and again to get a little bit better gear/char?

So the randomization in D2 was little more, but people did basically 1 boss run all the time.

End game in basically single player content is that in any game. You can't make a game that doesn't repeat content in infinity.

What can change is multiplayer pvp. Human opponents really is a gamechanger.
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RMAH was the worst thing that was implemented into this game... Alot of people has become greedy when it comes to selling/buying items and they are often thinking in euro, dollar or whatever currency they are using, instead of the currency in-game (gold).

Get rid of RMAH, so that Diablo 3 can be what it was supposed to be... a GAME.

The botters/the 24/7-gamers will always buy/sell on the black market and earn money, but the average player wouldn't touch the black market at all.

Edit: And how could I forget... the worthless stat-system on items. Getting +str rolls on xbows, i mean seriously? D2 was more balanced when it came to itemrolls, but on the other hand they whole skill system was different, with +skills instead of +weapon damage. But still, you should balance it more.
Edited by bLAJZER#2599 on 12/11/2012 14:20 GMT
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What can change is multiplayer pvp. Human opponents really is a gamechanger.

Agreed, but its also end game. You can name it what ever u want, endgame, pvp, final exams, whatever.
Thats the end game in most of the RPGs thats dont have new content every month (WOW)
Edited by DemonHunter#1405 on 12/11/2012 14:18 GMT
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RMAH was the worst thing that was implemented into this game... Alot of people has become greedy when it comes to selling/buying items and they are often thinking in euro, dollar or whatever currency they are using, instead of the currency in-game (gold).

Get rid of RMAH, so that Diablo 3 can be what it was supposed to be... a GAME.

The botters/the 24/7-gamers will always buy/sell on the black market and earn money, but the average player wouldn't touch the black market at all.

Edit: And how could I forget... the worthless stat-system on items. Getting +str rolls on xbows, i mean seriously? D2 was more balanced when it came to itemrolls, but on the other hand they whole skill system was different, with +skills instead of +weapon damage. But still, you should balance it more.


The idea to take out the black markets in order to give everyone a fair chance - is a good idea.
The problem is when there is nothing to keep the prices steady - like a proper gold sink and a proper way to make sure there is no item inflation.

As for getting +str on xbows.. well that's another way of making sure not all the items are perfect, otherwise EVERY xbow with above 1200 dps would be perfect due to little possible rolls.

--

As for end game content, there are numerous options - one of which is the long awaited PvP. Look at GuildWars, you have your PvE and the PvP system is amazing. Look at Risk Your Life (an old Malasian RPG game) it had the perfect balance between PvE and PvP.
In terms of PvE endgame could be the option I suggested, to get an option for +10% on your items, or a special task that is nearly impossible to beat and upon beating you get an item like the collectors eddition wings - Adds NOTHING except an ego boost (which is exactly what is expected from beating a really hard task).
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Up... hope blizz will see this.
They truly need to start listening to the community.

It's a simple thing called the intelligence of the mass, meaning that usually in a big group even though many ideas will be totally off, they will be balanced with good ideas worth looking at.
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Fkin barbs are so OP
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good post OP.

now post it on the US forums so blizz might see it
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just a note op has 1,5k elite kills and DATT GEAR.
im off seeya
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just a note op has 1,5k elite kills and DATT GEAR.
im off seeya


Tru dat.
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12/11/2012 13:45Posted by Shoshi
Duping - Once you release the AH duping is annoying, that's true. But once you release RMAH duping is a felony. If I buy from RMAH a $250 bow and then dupe it once, i actually created $250 out of thin air (no work at all). [not to mention there are even gold duping videos running over youtube from way back in patch 1.0.3]

The only way to dupe involves account rollback.

12/11/2012 13:45Posted by Shoshi
Gold sinks - Gem upgrading has a fail rate which will make you lose the whole gem, so when you do get to a radiant star it will mean something and there will be little of those, and not trillions like in the market atm.

You are aware most people find under 10M in their entire playing career?

12/11/2012 13:45Posted by Shoshi
The biggest problem with the current game is that there is no endgame content, meaning that once a character has finished the game (killed diablo) there is pretty much nothing left to do.

That is because Act 4 is not the end of the game. There will be Acts 5 and maybe even 6 or more when the expansions are out. They cannot truely add endgame until there is an endgame.
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12/11/2012 23:34Posted by DrSuperGood
The only way to dupe involves account rollback.


Speculation, a certain date where gems suddenly rose back to standard prices also speaks against this. All we can do is deduct it with the facts we have, but with the "lets pretend nothing ever happened" stance blizz is taking we will never know for sure.

12/11/2012 23:34Posted by DrSuperGood
You are aware most people find under 10M in their entire playing career?


While its true that you wont make much more than 100m by picking up gold every 10k or so elite kills, its also true that there are billions upon billions in the AH. Bots, exploits or whatever the case may be, the value of gold is mostly dictated by the pricefloor on the RMAH. And its only bound to go lower. I will agree tho, that this has nothing to do with goldsinks, and that the value of items going lower is mostly influenced by the average item quality everyone is getting. i.e. Getting a godly item in d3 takes about as long as farming 2 billion gold by hand. Average items you get every 3rd run sell for less and less, mostly because the influx of those items is so high. Compared to others im totally fine with that, even tho my items that were worth near 1b combined a month ago or something are about 400-500 now.

That is because Act 4 is not the end of the game. There will be Acts 5 and maybe even 6 or more when the expansions are out. They cannot truely add endgame until there is an endgame.


So, in your example an mmo, lets take WoW for instance, because it updates frequently (i guess, never played it) doesnt have real endgame because the current content is not the end of it? That makes zero sense. Instead its safe to assume that the current "endgame" that is, farming act 3, will be extended to act 5 or 6 as is the case with raids in WoW (or so i assume, as said, never tried it). The point of people is that this is !@#$ing boring, and what leads to bleeding out of d3.
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The only way to dupe involves account rollback.


youtube.com
Search for "diablo 3 item duping" or "diablo 3 gold duping / gold hack"
There have been plenty of videos out there, some more legit than the others.


You are aware most people find under 10M in their entire playing career?


Bullshiz... Each run in act 3 every monster drops 300-2k gold, playing with a normal character should gain you at least 200k per hour.
Meaning most people don't play over 50 hours in their whole carreer (lv 60 farming).


That is because Act 4 is not the end of the game. There will be Acts 5 and maybe even 6 or more when the expansions are out. They cannot truely add endgame until there is an endgame.


Endgame doesn't have to be some whole interesting ACT, but something like Pony level being ALOT harder requiring full teams to cooperate, and the drops there will be good. Or that the organs will give you an item affix boost instead of a stupid ring.
Some content that you will want to play even though you are paragon 100 and got great gear.

just a note op has 1,5k elite kills and DATT GEAR.
im off seeya


Really...? this is what you look for?
I have 120mil invested in my character, a kickstart was given as help by one of the top DH in this forum (a close friend), but none of your business.
Edited by Shoshi#2254 on 13/11/2012 09:48 GMT
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There is no duping.

Simple as that.

If it were the game would already have been unplayable with thousands if not a million highest gear ever.

It is also IMPOSSIBLE to have explicite long term duping in a SQL Server controlled security setting.

So by even mentioning it, I assume the OP has no clue about the rest of his points.

The fact he even alludes to fake You tube videos raised my eyebrow,,

"Some more legit than others"

Sorry: nothing is legit over there.

And let me conclude to say (as an owner of 3 MS certificates, one of which is a SQL administrator ...)

Anyone believing there can be long term and organised duping in a SQL server controlled game system has the brains of an ant.

Sorry for the possible insult, but that's it frankly.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 09:55 GMT
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BenBoske, you sure?
Have you been on these forums at ALL?
Go to diabloprogress.com, you can see there are for instance 2 players with the EXACT same high end gear - not 1 piece, not 2, but the whole set is identical.
13 Manticores worth 2bil each on EU - all identical.
And it goes on and on, doesn't matter if duping was due to a bug in the system or me lying about being hacked and bliz doing a one sided rollback - they just doubled the item without any work needed by the user, no RNG, no farming, no hard work at all.

And who talked about long-term exploits, even if it was a 2 day exploit it's enough, even if it doesn't ruin the economy it is ILLEGAL.
Edited by Shoshi#2254 on 13/11/2012 09:52 GMT
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BenBoske, you sure?
Have you been on these forums at ALL?
Go to diabloprogress.com, you can see there are for instance 2 players with the EXACT same high end gear - not 1 piece, not 2, but the whole set is identical.
13 Manticores worth 2bil each on EU - all identical.
And it goes on and on, doesn't matter if duping was due to a bug in the system or me lying about being hacked and bliz doing a one sided rollback - they just doubled the item without any work needed by the user, no RNG, no farming, no hard work at all.

And who talked about long-term exploits, even if it was a 2 day exploit it's enough, even if it doesn't ruin the economy it is ILLEGAL.


13 identical manticores in a game of millions of players ...

Get a grip if duping was possible you would see thousands of these same objects in the next 24 hours...

For instance you have NO IDEA how the random algoritm works in D3.

And since i know present day Sql server control mechanics as a server administrator ANY tempering with the tables would lead to an immediate alert within any snapshot taken from the tables.

It is alo traceable, so tempering is even impossible without being traced within milli seconds.

d3 server only infrastructure prevents long term uncontrolled duping like was seen in the local play of D2.

There was only one hic up at the end of May in Asia and that was not even a hack, but a programming error ... But nevertheless the copied item was immediately traced by the next SQL snapshot and rolled back.

Not one roll back happened ever since: logical since each SQL snapshot taken CONTROLS every cell in every table. Just read about it.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 10:11 GMT
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This discussion will lead nowhere and is way off topic.
Read what i wrote - "it doesn't matter if the item is duped via an exploit of via one sided rollbacks" - still got 2x same item in the system.

And as for RNG if you have a possible 100-200 stat x 3 possible options, with dmg variating from 900-1400, crit dmg 0-100 and sockets 1-2.
Sry but basic statistics will show you the chance of 2 identical drops is near zero, 13 is absolutely zero.
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This discussion will lead nowhere and is way off topic.
Read what i wrote - "it doesn't matter if the item is duped via an exploit of via one sided rollbacks" - still got 2x same item in the system.

And as for RNG if you have a possible 100-200 stat x 3 possible options, with dmg variating from 900-1400, crit dmg 0-100 and sockets 1-2.
Sry but basic statistics will show you the chance of 2 identical drops is near zero, 13 is absolutely zero.


Read how SQL SERVER. Technology works first.

You only look at an end result of identical items of which you have NO clue how they are being generated. Do you have the source code of their RND function ? Nope.

Trust me : present day databases can control any forms of tempering with their tables within mili seconds.

Read and inform you first then post an excuse.

You can start by reading the Blizzard posts about the Asian incident back in May. It was all standard procedure known to everyone who is working within such server administration.

Back tracked, rolled back with the next snapshot, problem solved within minutes.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 10:22 GMT
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