Diablo® III

Diablo 3 - The road NOT taken

BenBoske, you sure?
Have you been on these forums at ALL?
Go to diabloprogress.com, you can see there are for instance 2 players with the EXACT same high end gear - not 1 piece, not 2, but the whole set is identical.
13 Manticores worth 2bil each on EU - all identical.
And it goes on and on, doesn't matter if duping was due to a bug in the system or me lying about being hacked and bliz doing a one sided rollback - they just doubled the item without any work needed by the user, no RNG, no farming, no hard work at all.

And who talked about long-term exploits, even if it was a 2 day exploit it's enough, even if it doesn't ruin the economy it is ILLEGAL.


13 identical manticores in a game of millions of players ...

Get a grip if duping was possible you would see thousands of these same objects in the next 24 hours...

For instance you have NO IDEA how the random algoritm works in D3.

And since i know present day Sql server control mechanics as a server administrator ANY tempering with the tables would lead to an immediate alert within any snapshot taken from the tables.

It is alo traceable, so tempering is even impossible without being traced within milli seconds.

d3 server only infrastructure prevents long term uncontrolled duping like was seen in the local play of D2.

There was only one hic up at the end of May in Asia and that was not even a hack, but a programming error ... But nevertheless the copied item was immediately traced by the next SQL snapshot and rolled back.

Not one roll back happened ever since: logical since each SQL snapshot taken CONTROLS every cell in every table. Just read about it.


O'rly?

Let's take a look at this item:
http://www.diabloprogress.com/item/13699325

15 exact same items. Now, if I look at the database, and assume equal chance for each value of the random attributes, we can calculate the chance of exact same item dropping. Let's do it, shall we?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/echoing-fury

185x253x5x5x100x3x20 BEFORE the 2 random properties.

The result is just a tad over 7 BILLION. Throw in the random properties, and I'm fairly sure that the chances of getting a duplicate item are one in a TRILLION.

Shall we just believe that 15 exact sames items dropped, then?
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Of course because you don't have the source code of the Blizzard Rnd subroutine.

All you can conclude is that identical stats can drop, depending on the programming code you don't have access to...

What IS impossible though is the constant copying of ID's within a secure SQL server database , since EACH ID within the database is unique...

This will lead to an alert after each snapshot taken. The snap shot is a back up and control mechanism within the present day DB systems.

As such every copy not conform with the programmed tables is reported within mili seconds.

You guys have simply no clue what you talk about.

Like I said : do a search on the Blizzard response to the infamous Asian roll back at the end of May and you'll have more info on the mechanics.

BTW: one example: Philip Morris does a snap shot every few minutes of their Oracle DB's (inside info :) )

I would assume Blizzard would include such a snap shot within the same intervals.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 13:08 GMT
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9,267,390,000,000,000
With random affix. now multiple it by 14, cuz u have 15.
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9,267,390,000,000,000
With random affix. now multiple it by 14, cuz u have 15.


You don't have access to the RND sub routine.

So failed attempt at using maths to unknown programming source code ...

:)

While I KNOW that present day Hi end DB's can trace any tempering of their tables within milliseconds...
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 10:42 GMT
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You are indirectly acussing Blizzard of having a rigged/non-working RNG, which would result in many repeated drops. However, if you look at other top-end items, you will see that there are NO copies in Diabloprogress. That is, most of the godly stuff is completely unique. And yet, we are supposed to believe 15 exact Echoing Furies dropped. Sure.

@DemonHunter: TY for the number, even if I have no idea how you did it, it is still nice to have.

EDIT: FFS, Benboske, just look at your items. ALL of them are unique. ALL. The chances of having an exact copy of an item are astronomically low. The chances of having FORTEEN copies are non-existant.
Edited by Miguelitro#2165 on 13/11/2012 10:49 GMT
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Of course because you don't have the source code of the Blizzard Rnd subroutine.

All you can conclude is that identical stats can drop, depending on the programming code you don't have access to...


You're stopping too early.

What you can conclude furthermore, is that their RND isn't an unbiased RND, but a very manipulated one - assuming you'd want to exclude duping as cause from that list.

A real random wouldn't require much of a subroutine, as you put it, as it's just random seeds placed all over the place to determine stuff.

If that was the case, the guy you quoted would still be correct with his assertion that the chance of happening would incredibly low, in fact, outright unrealistic.

Though, I think we can all agree that we got a skewed RND at best, possible exploits aside.
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You are indirectly acussing Blizzard of having a rigged/non-working RNG, which would result in many repeated drops. However, if you look at other top-end items, you will see that there are NO copies in Diabloprogress. That is, most of the godly stuff is completely unique. And yet, we are supposed to believe 15 exact Echoing Furies dropped. Sure.

@DemonHunter: TY for the number, even if I have no idea how you did it, it is still nice to have.


Of course, if the source code is written in such a way that the highest gear has limited amounts of RND stats...

Which is also logical, since the players complained the Legendary gear should have much more CHANCE to be OP.

Without ANY source code of their coding you have nothing to prove anything.

BUT ---

With the KNOWLEDGE that EVERY snapshot of present day corporate DB's shows any inconsistency with the tables within mili seconds it is VERY clear what happens;

HIGHEST Legendary gear is less RND due to the whining of players of non meaningful super Legendary gear dropping.

Logical from both points of view.

Illogical for the usual hate trollers.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 10:53 GMT
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Of course because you don't have the source code of the Blizzard Rnd subroutine.

All you can conclude is that identical stats can drop, depending on the programming code you don't have access to...


You're stopping too early.

What you can conclude furthermore, is that their RND isn't an unbiased RND, but a very manipulated one - assuming you'd want to exclude duping as cause from that list.

A real random wouldn't require much of a subroutine, as you put it, as it's just random seeds placed all over the place to determine stuff.

If that was the case, the guy you quoted would still be correct with his assertion that the chance of happening would incredibly low, in fact, outright unrealistic.

Though, I think we can all agree that we got a skewed RND at best, possible exploits aside.


Yep: But the fact remains that present day Hi End DB's prevent the tempering of unique ID's within its tables, which is what duping should be all about.

So the only logical conclusion is that Blizzard limits the randomness of the highest Legendary gear to "steer" its useful stats...

All very logical. And this can be seen on a daily basis.

Nothing to see here. 15 identical Manicorns after what ? X months of play within a limited rnd subroutine ?

It will get to 25 within the next few months no doubt.

But with a "real" dupe this number would be 10.000's of identical Manicorns within 24 hours top. Certainly with the speed of the internet of today ..

Luckily we have our SQL server administrators to watch over the DB's snapshots :)) these days.

As I always said: D2 published as a local copy in present day internet play would be DEAD 3 weeks before it launched...

------

----- > Gamers should be gaming instead of making threads about things (SQL security in this thread) they have NO clue about.

The same thing happened to that session spoofing idiocy. At least dozens of people proved session spoofing couldn't be done in D3 and still a few thousand technical noobs kept on posting about it on every forum imaginable.

Up to and including that Forbes idiot.

Sad times.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 11:08 GMT
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I have linked to you the stats of the item, including their range. The nature and range of the bonus ensure that this is a way over average weapon, even with the worst rolls. Yet, you insist on some weird mojo to ensure that, somehow, the possible combinations drop by at least 8 orders of magnitude due to some unknown and completely unnecessary algorithm.

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate
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I have linked to you the stats of the item, including their range. The nature and range of the bonus ensure that this is a way over average weapon, even with the worst rolls. Yet, you insist on some weird mojo to ensure that, somehow, the possible combinations drop by at least 8 orders of magnitude due to some unknown and completely unnecessary algorithm.

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate


Your argument is complete invalid since you have no access to the programming code.

My arguments about present day DB's security to check on consistency of EACH unique cell within each table and are based on valid facts and that is the backbone of our industry, banking and knowledge base.

Accept you have no leg to stand on to support long term duping within present day database technology and security ... while you have NO CLUE how Blizzard "steers" its random stats of the higher end Legendary gear.

Simple.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 11:17 GMT
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12/11/2012 13:45Posted by Shoshi
1. Economy - The fact that there even is an AH is GREAT, truly a good idea, because if there was none - a black market would rise, which would make the same problems only less controlled.


I stopped reading there.
The devs have created a game where you can't find your stuff ingame just because you can get it at the auction house.
This makes no sense from a fantasy RPG point of vue and all problems derive from there.

Of course, you could always use what you find. Heck! you could even only use white items!

Sarcasm aside, the whole point of this kind of game is to discover things and gear yourself up.
D3 doesn't achieve that goal.
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The only things you can trust 100% are physics laws. Everything else can and will fail/be cracked at some point. But at this point, it has become obvious that you do not lack the ability to understand the problem. You just lack the will to do so, for whatever reason.
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1. Economy - The fact that there even is an AH is GREAT, truly a good idea, because if there was none - a black market would rise, which would make the same problems only less controlled.


I stopped reading there.
The devs have created a game where you can't find your stuff ingame just because you can get it at the auction house.
This makes no sense from a fantasy RPG point of vue and all problems derive from there.

Of course, you could always use what you find. Heck! you could even only use white items!

Sarcasm aside, the whole point of this kind of game is to discover things and gear yourself up.
D3 doesn't achieve that goal.


You are not obliged to use the AH.

You can finish the game after patch 1.05 without EVER using the AH.

it is also NOT a "all or nothing" question.

I only bought weapons from the AH, all the rest you see is self grinded. And I like that.

It is a NEW technique used for an RPG and it works for people who like that.

The main problem is that I needed 320+ hours to kill Diablo on Infernal. Some people will want to do it in 60 hours and get help from friends OR the AH.

Nothing to see here as D3is all about smashing mobs and feel good about it.

Although the patch 1.05 with its excellent grinding to find the one and only Ring is an awesome addition.

The AH only adds OTHER options to the game. Without it you have less options. The RMAH adds another twist: gaining coins from playing a video game.

I put 20 years long coins into video game machines. It was a nice change to have it the other way around ... for an RPG not a small feat to deliver...
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 11:28 GMT
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The only way to dupe involves account rollback.

^hes right

[quote]youtube.com
Search for "diablo 3 item duping" or "diablo 3 gold duping / gold hack"
There have been plenty of videos out there, some more legit than the others.


^you are wrong. im so tempted to post a website but im fearing ban.

just !@#$ing google
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BenBoske, you sure?
Have you been on these forums at ALL?
Go to diabloprogress.com, you can see there are for instance 2 players with the EXACT same high end gear - not 1 piece, not 2, but the whole set is identical.
13 Manticores worth 2bil each on EU - all identical.
And it goes on and on, doesn't matter if duping was due to a bug in the system or me lying about being hacked and bliz doing a one sided rollback - they just doubled the item without any work needed by the user, no RNG, no farming, no hard work at all.

And who talked about long-term exploits, even if it was a 2 day exploit it's enough, even if it doesn't ruin the economy it is ILLEGAL.

!@#$% u ever heard of d2 stone of jordan? datts dupin
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This discussion will lead nowhere and is way off topic.
Read what i wrote - "it doesn't matter if the item is duped via an exploit of via one sided rollbacks" - still got 2x same item in the system.

And as for RNG if you have a possible 100-200 stat x 3 possible options, with dmg variating from 900-1400, crit dmg 0-100 and sockets 1-2.
Sry but basic statistics will show you the chance of 2 identical drops is near zero, 13 is absolutely zero.

statistics will also teach you that even tho the probability of 2 identical drops (which we have no idea how big-small is) can happen no matter how low the probability or maybe will never happen even tho it has high prob.
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[!@#$% u ever heard of d2 stone of jordan? datts dupin


Impossible in Diablo 3 now.

Since all is central server controlled and any tempering within the unique ID items for each DB cell is immediately revealed on every snapshot taken.

Like I said : long term duplicating is impossible within present day DB technology.

it is why D3 is a pure server side game.

You won't find any illegal copies of D3 either.

And IF you would want to download a so called "copy", be sure you enter a hacking .exe instead of D3...
:)))
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Once probabilities start to get in the 10⁻¹² realm, they esentially do not exist. Statistically, you could have a water glass spontaneously boil while the bottom freezes, or be able to run through a wall. But the probability is so low it simply does not happen. There IS such thing as "thresold of non-believability" (sp?). The 13 identical drops is way way beyond that.
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13/11/2012 11:38Posted by Miguelitro
Once probabilities start to get in the 10⁻¹² realm, they esentially do not exist. Statistically, you could have a water glass spontaneously boil while the bottom freezes, or be able to run through a wall. But the probability is so low it simply does not happen. There IS such thing as "thresold of non-believability" (sp?). The 13 identical drops is way way beyond that.

it might be or it might be not, truth is no one has any idea

as stated before, you have no idea how to calculate drop probability.
not to say theres as innate less randomness of set and legs compared to rares, since the leg change half of their possibe stats is fixed and you only roll a range.
Edited by Uzsibox#2490 on 13/11/2012 11:43 GMT
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13/11/2012 11:38Posted by Miguelitro
Once probabilities start to get in the 10⁻¹² realm, they esentially do not exist. Statistically, you could have a water glass spontaneously boil while the bottom freezes, or be able to run through a wall. But the probability is so low it simply does not happen. There IS such thing as "thresold of non-believability" (sp?). The 13 identical drops is way way beyond that.


Wrong, since you have no clue what programming is behind the steering of the stats in those Legendary items.

You have NO access to their programming code. So you have NO clue what steers the RND routine of their stats.

While at the same time, everyone knows by now it is impossible to copy ID's from within a SQL server database without creating an alert on every snapshot taken.

Put one and one together and you have NO duping proof whatsoever.

Show me the programming code: you can't. You just accuse (Blizzard) without ANY access to their programming, which is trolling to attack their product.

Blizzard could sue you.
Edited by BenBoske#2907 on 13/11/2012 11:46 GMT
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