Diablo® III

what happened at dreamhack?

28/11/2012 12:43Posted by Consider
Yes. To find out how they do the things they do, how they still are able to do what they do and maybe figure out how to end it.

If you're not doing anything against them, maybe you should start listen to them, else they will end up becomming your only custommers.

Sorry, this response representing Blizzard is just plain wrong. See above.

Are you really naive enough to think botters try to help Blizzard prevent bots from working? That's a terrible attempt at trolling. If you're going to troll the forum, at least do a decent job.


I'm not trolling, but if you were able to read and comprehend what i wrote you might see that it makes perfect sense...

Guess reading is not a requirment for your fancy green color
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28/11/2012 12:43Posted by Consider
Yes. To find out how they do the things they do, how they still are able to do what they do and maybe figure out how to end it.

If you're not doing anything against them, maybe you should start listen to them, else they will end up becomming your only custommers.

Sorry, this response representing Blizzard is just plain wrong. See above.

Are you really naive enough to think botters try to help Blizzard prevent bots from working? That's a terrible attempt at trolling. If you're going to troll the forum, at least do a decent job.


Doesn't hurt to listen, you never know. A botter may say he's quit botting, explaining Blizzard the exploits.

Vaneras is giving the impression Blizzard is turning a blind eye to their problems
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Naive? Not everyone botting has setup 12032 bots to earn money from them i guess. I see alot of "normal" people botting due to it being so easy and accessible.

Others might think "why should i farm legit, when everyone else bots".

I don't see why at least 0,01% of these people would lend a hand to stop/reduce botting?
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Community
Im impressed with blizzards willingness to learn from the players. This is nice to see.


Nothing beats talking to people in person when discussing things, I guess because it is easier to explain things and avoid misunderstandings when talking face to face. The primary purpose of our roundtable discussion is indeed to listen to what players have to say, and we are grateful for all the feedback we get in these discussions :-)

We of course also talked about potential future changes or
improvements that are wanted or needed the most.


Can you elaborate on that one a little bit, please?


Basically we asked everyone present at the discussion to name the one thing they would like to see changed or added to the game the most. This of course lead to quite a bit of discussion back and forth as everyone had different opinions on this, but here are some of the things that people wanted:
  • Some wanted PvP as soon as possible, any kind of PvP.
  • Some wanted us to do more things and mini-games like the Infernal Machine.
  • Some wanted more randomness in dungeons and the world.
  • Some wanted improved search mechanisms in the AH interface to make it easier to search and compare gear.
  • Some wanted crafting to be improved to make it more worthwhile, and example was to include unique personal gear akin to the Hellfire Ring.
  • Some wanted more hardcore challenges that would somehow reward them with bragging rights.


you really should have streamed or filmed this discussion. id really like to hear it.


Perhaps that is something we could do in the future, but it is important to emphasise that these discussions are not Q&A panels. Nothing is announced or promised in these roundtable discussions, and it is the players who do the most of the talking. Basically the idea of these discussions is similar to that of our forums, a place where players can come together and discuss our games and where we can ask questions when needed and gather player feedback :-)
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28/11/2012 12:58Posted by kamikazekuso
Vaneras is giving the impression Blizzard is turning a blind eye to their problems

The only thing Vaneras is doing is reading things in context.
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Community
I know the topic of bots is one of great import and frustration, but unfortunately there is very little I can say on this particular topic. What I can say is that we do not consider them legitimate players, and therefore we have no intention to treat them as such.

28/11/2012 12:34Posted by Rhye
Yes. To find out how they do the things they do, how they still are able to do what they do and maybe figure out how to end it.


To end it is easier said than done, unfortunately these things tend to be more of an ongoing cat and mouse game. That being said, we are constantly researching them and what they do.

28/11/2012 12:35Posted by Diablo
If you're not doing anything against them, maybe you should start listen to them, else they will end up becomming your only custommers.


That is a rather bleak viewpoint on the situation, but I can understand why you feel this way. We are not ignoring the issue, in fact we are constantly fighting them and countering them whenever we are able, but as mentioned before I am not at liberty to share more specifics on this. Again, it is an ongoing cat and mouse game and it is not a simple issue to resolve.
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I know the topic of bots is one of great import and frustration, but unfortunately there is very little I can say on this particular topic. What I can say is that we do not consider them legitimate players, and therefore we have no intention to treat them as such.

Yes. To find out how they do the things they do, how they still are able to do what they do and maybe figure out how to end it.


To end it is easier said than done, unfortunately these things tend to be more of an ongoing cat and mouse game. That being said, we are constantly researching them and what they do.

If you're not doing anything against them, maybe you should start listen to them, else they will end up becomming your only custommers.


That is a rather bleak viewpoint on the situation, but I can understand why you feel this way. We are not ignoring the issue, in fact we are constantly fighting them and countering them whenever we are able, but as mentioned before I am not at liberty to share more specifics on this. Again, it is an ongoing cat and mouse game and it is not a simple issue to resolve.

Varenas, I think you are missing my point, and others have picked up on it. Many of the best hackers go on to become security experts and enforcers. They are, in many cases, respected people with legitimate points to prove - not just "gold farmers" or people out to ruin everyone else's day.

What you need to appreciate is that your community want to see something being done. That requires communication. At the moment, I, as a member of the community, am not convinced you are doing enough because you are simply not being vocal about it. Remember, no comment is a comment in itself, and is sometimes the most damaging.

As has been pointed out before, why should the "average player" play fair when there are forces in play making it pointless to do so? Why should the "average player" have to grind 10 hours per day, 7 days per week to remain competitive, when little to nothing is being done (or seen to be done), to those who bot/exploit their way to the top?

When PvP arrives, it's going to be a game changer. But, to ensure that those who unfairly got to the top don't have a competitive edge over those who played fair, I struggle to see a way without introducing a new tier of gear (PvP specific or not). If you introduce it, those community members who played fair to get to and stay at the top will cry out - what was the point in all this farming? If you don't introduce it those same community members who played fair will be at a competitive disadvantage behind those botters and exploiters.

You simply cannot remain silent any longer.
Edited by Moof#2527 on 28/11/2012 13:36 GMT
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Nothing new was announced at DreamHack.

We had a roundtable discussion at the event with a nice group of players who all signed up for it. It was mostly an informal face to face talk about the state of the game and its future.

People there shared their opinions on what they think is fun or less fun to do in the game, including what their goals typically are when they log in. We also talked about all the content that had been added since release, and whether or not that content has improved the game. We of course also talked about potential future changes or improvements that are wanted or needed the most.

The coolest thing about the discussion was that we had a lot of different types of players there, all with different opinions and interests, which helped balance the discussion quite well I think. There were a couple of guys in there who were very hardcore theorycrafters and min-maxers, some guys there were primarily interested is PvP, some people were very into lore and story, others who prefer a more relaxed game-play while hacking and slashing through hordes of mobs, we saw solo players as well as group players, and of course there were those with heavy interest in economy and crafting.


no talk about the hacks that are going on? No talk about rubber banding and how to fix it. and now. the fantastic screen freeze that happens at the most awesome times. which you guys say is the fault of a "sound file" when the hell is this going to be fixed. You all should work out the kinks in the game before you even talk about other things.
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Community
Many of the best hackers go on to become security experts and enforcers. They are, in many cases, respected people with legitimate points to prove - not just "gold farmers" or people out to ruin everyone else's day.


Very true, many hackers do go legitimate, in fact this has been the case for many years now. But despite their experience and expertise, these hackers who did become security experts and enforcers still haven't been able to stop hacking and other types of security breaches despite the fact that so many of them have been hired and are being listened to by big companies all over the world.

New hackers arrive on the scene as soon as another one leaves it, and new hacks appear all the time as soon as another has been dealt with... and they are becoming ever more sophisticated on top of that. Security vs. hackers is an ever-going cat and mouse game, which is unfortunately also the case when it comes to online games and bots.

What you need to appreciate is that your community want to see something being done. That requires communication. At the moment, I, as a member of the community, am not convinced you are doing enough because you are simply not being vocal about it. Remember, no comment is a comment in itself, and is sometimes the most damaging.


I can totally appreciate what you are saying here, but sometimes it is just not that simple. Sometimes it is a matter of choosing the lesser evil... Basically the more information we share about what we are doing, the easier we are making it for delinquents and other wrongdoers to counter our efforts.

The lesser evil has been chosen, and as such all I can say is that this is an issue that we take very seriously, and that we have some extremely talented "security experts and enforcers" working constantly to combat this.

I really do hear what you are saying, and please know that I am not trying to dismiss your frustrations.
Edited by Vaneras on 28/11/2012 14:13 GMT
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Community
28/11/2012 14:04Posted by Time2Kill
You all should work out the kinks in the game before you even talk about other things.


Restricting all talk to a single issue until said issue has been resolved is not realistic nor practical... the discussion of other topics should not be forbidden because some are experiencing technical issues.
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28/11/2012 12:35Posted by Diablo


Are you seriously saying that you would like us to listen to those?


If you're not doing anything against them, maybe you should start listen to them, else they will end up becomming your only custommers.


this will still happen one day.

and i see after 6 month, blue activity + green activity like never before here. hm. But why is Consider attacking Rhye , is completely out of my mind. You, green, nearly never posted here before, when its needed, and now attacking user, which is trying to help, and which is right ? gez. you are a real hero.
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28/11/2012 14:36Posted by Armorpiercer
You, green, nearly never posted here before

This post is my 1,317th post on the forum. For the sake of comparison, you have 12 posts and Rhye has 181. Stating that I've nearly never posted here before is a tad unreasonable.


28/11/2012 14:36Posted by Armorpiercer
when its needed

I mostly post in Technical Support.

I like to think that the people I've helped there think my posts had some value.


28/11/2012 14:36Posted by Armorpiercer
and now attacking user, which is trying to help, and which is right ?

The person in question wasn't right.


Things to bear in mind;
  • This is a discussion about DreamHack.
  • Vaneras mentioned the CMs meeting with players.
  • Moof pointed out he didn't mention botters or exploiters.
  • Vaneras responded that the CMs do not wish to speak with them.
  • Community Managers have nothing to do with bot reports.

  • It is not the job of a Community Manager to deal with bot reports. People who investigate those are from a different team and have an entirely different job. This was a community event. It was focused on what players enjoy and how the game can be improved for those players.

    Blizzard does not turn a blind eye to information sent to them about bots or those who use them. If you have any information regarding either, please e-mail hacks@blizzard.com to share it with the people that can put your information to use.

    I don't apologize for my accusation of trolling, nor will I retract it. This thread was about DreamHack, and was derailed by people jumping onto the bandwagon to land cheap shots at the Community Managers, Vaneras in particular. It's not fair and it isn't helpful. It certainly isn't "right".
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    the problem is Consider, that people are completely fed up with the complete lack of visible things being done against those that are ruining the game.

    i a one of the many who did not find grinding strictly to grind, with a company known to negate your hard work (expansions, ladder seasons, etc) a fun experience. Especially in a game thats story gets old by the third time you play it.

    A lot of us are just bitter. We had expectations, and i doubt any of us expected blizzard to truly meet them, but a lot of us feel like we've been abandoned. Considering how little comes of reporting people in game, people move to complaining on the forums because they feel like theres no one listening anywhere else. Community managers are still a bridge between players and the people with the power to fix things. A lot of us just feel cheated that hard work is wasted time when 90% of ur friends list has turned to botting (for months now) with no recourse.

    I mean, that blizzard01 was spamming me the entire few months that i played. I must have reported that guy 50 times.

    it should be common-place for blizzard to be upating is players on fixing issues. It doesnt make sense to hide the information if its some tactic to not tip-off those exploiting the problems. Its because the problems have actually gotten much worse, and not hearing any progress makes a lot of us see paralells with previous games where the company just accepted bots and problems.

    I have already turned my back on this game :( i never thought that wud be possible.
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    28/11/2012 15:29Posted by BenMasta
    the problem is Consider, that people are completely fed up with the complete lack of visible things being done against those that are ruining the game.

    That's completely fair, I accept it - in fact it happens to be true of me as well.
    Edited by Consider#2980 on 28/11/2012 15:49 GMT
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    spamming mantras and clicking sweeping wind every 5 seconds is not fun mechanics. Also add 1 base spirit regen please. I really hope that they have told you this at dreamhack.
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    28/11/2012 12:54Posted by Consider
    But to imply that someone who uses or creates a bot will willingly tell Blizzard how to break the bot is ludicrous.

    ever considered people making these things to PROVE A POINT?
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    28/11/2012 14:24Posted by Vaneras
    You all should work out the kinks in the game before you even talk about other things.


    Restricting all talk to a single issue until said issue has been resolved is not realistic nor practical... the discussion of other topics should not be forbidden because some are experiencing technical issues.


    sorry but the fact that these things I mentioned are issues that almost everyone are having is sooo dang annoying and it takes every fiber in my bones, not to simply quit. And the fact that you decided to rant on about what you did and not answer what is being done about it is not reassuring. we paid cash money for this game and deserve at the least "yes we understand we are working on it".
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    @Bytes. Didnt you read? Blue said plainly "nothing new" :))))
    So no new abilities just halve or "double it" X)))
    Cant wait for OwE half-cut! Yay!!!
    P.S. I so fond of greenies. Sweet Consider dosnt know what sarcasm is! Shoooow shweeet©
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    Hello Consider,

    What you are doing here is wrong to be honest. You could simply say "a team of professionals is working on the bot problem" and be done with it.

    If he was a troll, you are just feeding him.

    And in my opinion he was just trying to make a point. Aggressivley maybe, but he is not wrong about bots in the end. They are a fact.
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    How is PvP going to work for HC (HardCore) some say there will not be PvP in HC. Some say HC will have an option in the arena to fight to the death or be able to come back to life like in SC.
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