Diablo® III

Regarding PvP - Continued

Dont release anything before you have finished and polished the PVP to the bone!.

Whiners in the Diablo community, would most deffenitly go on and whine and whine (In a non constructive way of course. We have seen it before!) so you will not see the ones who actually want to participate in to making a better game.



For me it is not a question of how much time you spend on making it, but the quality it delivers.


+ to that
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Posts: 1,318

+1, I agree. No rewards in PvP is like hmmm... Sex without climaxing. Is that a good enough example?


U dont get it dont you??

Diablo was never all about PVP and rewards. If you want your shiny pvp set with resilience gear diablo 3 is not for you. go away please. or go back to wow.

But back 2 topic:
I would take into consideration that blizzard gave up on diablo 3 and will not implement more than duels at all.

But what is the problem? You simply cannot balance pvp in diablo 3. Each class has its counters and some classes are OP (hoi barbs).

So why not just release a arena map where you can play 1-1, 2-2,3-3,4-4 just for the fun of it.
people will find ways to own each other. some builds will be op. but thats just how the game itself is.
no need for major balancing and resilience gear & other crap.
If some classes are more op in pvp - fine let it be.
Maybe blizz you should just roll out arena on a ptr and let the people decide if they like it or not.
I honestly believe that there are just no resources available for development in d3 - because its not that profitable as expected. rmah kinda flops and will not generate enough revenue as desired. i think thats the main reason why things progress so slowly in d3.

maybe i am wrong but whatever. just my opinion.
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Personally I don't car about pvp, I would rather have a add on to the game like extra maps/ characters, and better Armour/ weapons.
would be nice to sort out A/h while they are at it too.
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Just do new game modes, good rewards, maybe new items for win and all will play pvp :)
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must have bet on gold and 50% go to npc or so.-gold sink
must have craft buff potions-craft at npc with books gems and so-craft item sink and balance to the playrs -aH wll come alive agin
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90 Undead Priest
18090
Posts: 29
i 100% agree with this , mainstream people are nothing but tools that 'smart' ones can manipulate for theyre own ends, diablo is one big experiment of pushing people to the edge and still if they put out an expantion and hype it , 10m copy's will be sold and people would think to themselfs 'this time it will be good , they promised it' ha fools , it will suck even harder i guess. But it aint the peoples fault , nah its the way we are programmmed to work
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@Devs :
(blues help this question get to them mind you) :

1 - Will be able to figth other realm players? id like the chance to "kick some US butts" metaphorically speaking of course.

2- Dueling in HC ?

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6297430036?page=1#2
Edited by Tor0#2444 on 01/01/2013 02:00 GMT
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People are talking about PvP as it is the holy grail, as it is the solution to all and "end game" (whatever that really means).

The prime objective of a game like Diablo is to progress (Normal to Inferno, Act 1 to Act 4). This is called "Beating the Game". The second objective is to improve your character. There has to be some sort of rewarding aspect in continous and repetitive game play, otherwise repeating the same actions over and over is pointless.

PvP is not an objective of a game like Diablo, but an alternative to farming.

It may or may not become the main reason why some players continue to play, but if so, then it is because of their subjective choice, just like some players choose not to use AH, some players choose only to use RMAH, and so forth. As long as the game itself has a rewarding aspect, the main objective of players will be PvE; at least for the majority.

But regardless what, PvP demands challenge. The mere slapping eachother, the mere 1v1 duel of Diablo 2, is no longer enough for players. We may joke about the design team, but they were right when they said, that duels would grow old and become boring very fast.

Many have said, this is not Diablo 2, and they are right. In Diablo 2, you had 8 players in open game, in Diablo 3 you are limited to 4. In Diablo 2, the majority of players had great gear and some had seperate PvP gear (rune words, UM runes set-up), in Diablo 3 less than 3% of all players have more than 1 million EHP and less than 8% have more than 150K dps; in Diablo 3 gear matters all and good gear is very expensive and only for the top 2-5%. In Diablo 2, you could gank, you could farm solo in a 8 player game.

Diablo 3 is not designed towards a fair and level playing ground for PvP. In Diablo 3 the rich dominate. In Diablo 3 gear (i.e. gold) means everything, skill means nothing.

But even if duels will be more than "I invite you, I ask you for duel, you accept, we fight, one dies, one win", how long before this will be old? Will Diablo 3 only be for players who only play 1 hour a day and have mediocre gear?

Without any form of reward in farming, PvP may distract us for a week or two, but without any rewarding element in duelling, Diablo 3 will continue its descent and loss of players.
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The [url="http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6160439019"]original thread[/url] glitched out, so I have created this thread so the discussion can continue here.

Genuinely curious, are we not entitled to a refund at this stage?

Me and my friends solely bought D3 because of the advertised PvP features, as we were looking for a drop-in PvP game we could play together occasionally, after having levelled. First we didn't get it on release, then it got delayed further, and now it's scrapped altogether.

"Multiplayer functionality over Battle.net with support for cooperative and competitive play."

Was a key feature in advertising, along with a multitude of arena footage dating back from BlizzCon 2010. The game was purchased almost entirely on expectations that have consistently fallen short. Me and my friends bought the game with the promise of PvP with statement such as "arenas will be added post-launch."

Are we not eligible to request a refund?


Haha. You got to be joking. You have 2 level 60 HC characters, and you want a refund?
You don't go out for dinner and then whine about refund three quarters into your meal.
Edited by Intrepid#1144 on 01/01/2013 10:48 GMT
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People are talking about PvP as it is the holy grail, as it is the solution to all and "end game" (whatever that really means).

The prime objective of a game like Diablo is to progress (Normal to Inferno, Act 1 to Act 4). This is called "Beating the Game". The second objective is to improve your character. There has to be some sort of rewarding aspect in continous and repetitive game play, otherwise repeating the same actions over and over is pointless.

PvP is not an objective of a game like Diablo, but an alternative to farming.

It may or may not become the main reason why some players continue to play, but if so, then it is because of their subjective choice, just like some players choose not to use AH, some players choose only to use RMAH, and so forth. As long as the game itself has a rewarding aspect, the main objective of players will be PvE; at least for the majority.

But regardless what, PvP demands challenge. The mere slapping eachother, the mere 1v1 duel of Diablo 2, is no longer enough for players. We may joke about the design team, but they were right when they said, that duels would grow old and become boring very fast.

Many have said, this is not Diablo 2, and they are right. In Diablo 2, you had 8 players in open game, in Diablo 3 you are limited to 4. In Diablo 2, the majority of players had great gear and some had seperate PvP gear (rune words, UM runes set-up), in Diablo 3 less than 3% of all players have more than 1 million EHP and less than 8% have more than 150K dps; in Diablo 3 gear matters all and good gear is very expensive and only for the top 2-5%. In Diablo 2, you could gank, you could farm solo in a 8 player game.

Diablo 3 is not designed towards a fair and level playing ground for PvP. In Diablo 3 the rich dominate. In Diablo 3 gear (i.e. gold) means everything, skill means nothing.

But even if duels will be more than "I invite you, I ask you for duel, you accept, we fight, one dies, one win", how long before this will be old? Will Diablo 3 only be for players who only play 1 hour a day and have mediocre gear?

Without any form of reward in farming, PvP may distract us for a week or two, but without any rewarding element in duelling, Diablo 3 will continue its descent and loss of players.


I disagree, i and everyone i came across in d2 played for pvp. The reward was screaming and crying noobs when we hunted them down and mercilessly slaughtered them with our clan members, begging us to stop. That is pvp, fvck instanced competitive pvp.
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People are talking about PvP as it is the holy grail, as it is the solution to all and "end game" (whatever that really means).

The prime objective of a game like Diablo is to progress (Normal to Inferno, Act 1 to Act 4). This is called "Beating the Game". The second objective is to improve your character. There has to be some sort of rewarding aspect in continous and repetitive game play, otherwise repeating the same actions over and over is pointless.

PvP is not an objective of a game like Diablo, but an alternative to farming.

It may or may not become the main reason why some players continue to play, but if so, then it is because of their subjective choice, just like some players choose not to use AH, some players choose only to use RMAH, and so forth. As long as the game itself has a rewarding aspect, the main objective of players will be PvE; at least for the majority.

But regardless what, PvP demands challenge. The mere slapping eachother, the mere 1v1 duel of Diablo 2, is no longer enough for players. We may joke about the design team, but they were right when they said, that duels would grow old and become boring very fast.

Many have said, this is not Diablo 2, and they are right. In Diablo 2, you had 8 players in open game, in Diablo 3 you are limited to 4. In Diablo 2, the majority of players had great gear and some had seperate PvP gear (rune words, UM runes set-up), in Diablo 3 less than 3% of all players have more than 1 million EHP and less than 8% have more than 150K dps; in Diablo 3 gear matters all and good gear is very expensive and only for the top 2-5%. In Diablo 2, you could gank, you could farm solo in a 8 player game.

Diablo 3 is not designed towards a fair and level playing ground for PvP. In Diablo 3 the rich dominate. In Diablo 3 gear (i.e. gold) means everything, skill means nothing.

But even if duels will be more than "I invite you, I ask you for duel, you accept, we fight, one dies, one win", how long before this will be old? Will Diablo 3 only be for players who only play 1 hour a day and have mediocre gear?

Without any form of reward in farming, PvP may distract us for a week or two, but without any rewarding element in duelling, Diablo 3 will continue its descent and loss of players.


I disagree, i and everyone i came across in d2 played for pvp. The reward was screaming and crying noobs when we hunted them down and mercilessly slaughtered them with our clan members, begging us to stop. That is pvp, fvck instanced competitive pvp.


You disagree without any reason or without any basis in what I wrote, just to contradict.

So, you got Diablo 3 for Christmas? And some friends gave you some items? If you were such a super PvP clan player in Diablo 2, how come you haven't played Diablo 3 until now?

How about finishing grade school, then learn to read and form a retort and then come back?
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01/01/2013 13:16Posted by Cottonface
How about finishing grade school, then learn to read and form a retort and then come back?


Huh?
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I'll just say LOL.. Not even the whirlwhind crash bug is fixed so why should pvp come..
Game will be dead long before that happens!
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@Cottonface:

I agree with Sigi in that you are 100% wrong.

D2 was about duels/Pking, and the only reason people grinded for items was to equip their duelers.

You of course needed a character/s to farm, but farming was not the purpose itself but the way to improve your dueling characters.

Its idiotic to farm items just to farm better with no other purpose than farming...

The fun in D2 was to destroy other players and get their ears.

So yeah, PVP IS the Holy grial for a Diablo game, this is not WOW were you strugle to complete content.

I played D2 HC a lot, was part of a succesfull dueler clan and had lots of fun.

My D2 routine was:

- Farm for gear to equip farmer and/or dueler characters.
- Level new characters to duel in different lvl ranges (lvl 9 , lvl 2x, lvl 3x, lvl 99).
- Level new characters to refill the ones i eventually lost dueling.
- Duel other players.
- Declare hostility and try to hunt down other players (old style pking, what people do nowdays in D3 is just lame and involves no honor since opponents cant figth back or defend themselves)
- Kill players that tryed to declared hostility to me, aka pkk.
- Level new characters to get the "one-time" reward from some quests (soqueting, imbue).
- Farm for super rejuvenation potions to duel.
- Farm for mats to craft blood-gloves or blood jewelry.
- Trade with other players.
- Watch other players duel.


So yeah, im here playing D3 awaiting for dueling to come out, if doesnt feel like what i felt on D2, well ill quit, i bougth D3 because the lots of fun i had with D2.
Edited by Tor0#2444 on 01/01/2013 18:06 GMT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5320
Posts: 48
ok so you say it was scrapped but you advertised diablo 3 as also having pvp...having failed that after 7 months + i expect a refund...

You clearly falsely advertised a product which was not what i was told it would be...i wasted earned money to pay for a game which had pvp you failed to delivery where is our refund?

You are thieves if you as a company resort to such false statements to sell your games you are in serious trouble. The only saving grace that you activision/blizzard have is that most people wont bother to take it to court.

But it is even worse because every lie you told people will never touch the products again so you are slowly killing your own business which pleases me more since you believe you can do as you please.
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@Cottonface:

I agree with Sigi in that you are 100% wrong.

D2 was about duels/Pking, and the only reason people grinded for items was to equip their duelers.

You of course needed a character/s to farm, but farming was not the purpose itself but the way to improve your dueling characters.

Its idiotic to farm items just to farm better with no other purpose than farming...

The fun in D2 was to destroy other players and get their ears.

So yeah, PVP IS the Holy grial for a Diablo game, this is not WOW were you strugle to complete content.

I played D2 HC a lot, was part of a succesfull dueler clan and had lots of fun.

My D2 routine was:

- Farm for gear to equip farmer and/or dueler characters.
- Level new characters to duel in different lvl ranges (lvl 9 , lvl 2x, lvl 3x, lvl 99).
- Level new characters to refill the ones i eventually lost dueling.
- Duel other players.
- Declare hostility and try to hunt down other players (old style pking, what people do nowdays in D3 is just lame and involves no honor since opponents cant figth back or defend themselves)
- Kill players that tryed to declared hostility to me, aka pkk.
- Level new characters to get the "one-time" reward from some quests (soqueting, imbue).
- Farm for super rejuvenation potions to duel.
- Farm for mats to craft blood-gloves or blood jewelry.
- Trade with other players.
- Watch other players duel.


So yeah, im here playing D3 awaiting for dueling to come out, if doesnt feel like what i felt on D2, well ill quit, i bougth D3 because the lots of fun i had with D2.


In case you didn't understood what I wrote, let me repeat it...

As long as there is a rewarding aspect in farming (PvE), as long as there is a rewarding aspect in continous and repetitive game play, PvE is the main activity. Once PvE becomes pointless, once there is no purpose anymore, any rewarding aspect, PvP may become the purpose of gaming. However, PvP is a personal choice.

I also played D2, I PvP'd alot, but I spend most of the time farming high level runes. I had 48 mules (all in Full Sigon's) full of gear and runes for trading. I played HC exclusively aswell.

You mention 11 activities you did in Diablo 2, 3 of them are farming, 3 of them are leveling, 3 of them is PK/PvP. But the important thing is, that you farmed gear to equip duellers. So tell me where I am wrong? You beat the game, then you played PvE until you reached a goal, hence no more rewarding aspect, then you turned to PvP. You decided that you wanted to spend your time on PvP mainly, so did many others, but before you could, you needed to complete the two stages of PvE.

But Diablo 3 is NOT Diablo 2. In Diablo 2 you very quickly could farm the "essential" gear, or trade it. You probably also had a mule full of 5/6 socket shields/maces/chests/spears, runes, soj, etc. And if not, you could always spend a weekend farming bosses to get gear / runes.

You can NOT do that in Diablo 3. You can not go out and farm a nice Skorn, a set of IK armor and so on in a weekend.

That is what I mean, when I say, that there isn't and never can be a level playing field in Diablo 3.

01/01/2013 17:59Posted by Tor0
So yeah, im here playing D3 awaiting for dueling to come out, if doesnt feel like what i felt on D2, well ill quit, i bougth D3 because the lots of fun i had with D2.


That is the only reason there are players remaining, but once christmas vacation ends, players will begin to drop again, and then it is a race before the game officially only has 50,000 players and all of them are 1 hour per day kids who got the game last week.

But honestly, do you really believe that duels in Diablo 3 will be as in Diablo 2? Blizzard cannot even implement Monster Levels in public games. Unless they create open games with up to 8-12 players, for instance in Fields of Misery, I am afraid that you will become disappointed and quit.

And even if, there still are all the issues why PvP isn't realistic, class and skill issues, the 30% mitigation of Barbs/Monks vs other classes, EHP vs Million crits, etc.
Edited by Cottonface#1659 on 01/01/2013 22:56 GMT
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01/01/2013 17:59Posted by Tor0
- Level new characters to duel in different lvl ranges (lvl 9 , lvl 2x, lvl 3x, lvl 99).


You are one of the few who even mention this, and I assume you also have thought about level ranges in Diablo 3. Level 15 chars, level 30 burger chars, level 42 req chars.

Personally, I would love leve 42 chars in req gear, since there is more of that than good burgers :)
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Wondering why does this takes more time to implement.

Unless, just a wild freaking guesses. I think they are trying to balance the classes, not just the existing classes but Blizzard might be working on the new classes which would be available in the expansion.

Lots of balancing issues needs to be done there!
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Community
Posts: 2,796
The fun in D2 was to destroy other players and get their ears.

So yeah, PVP IS the Holy grial for a Diablo game, this is not WOW were you strugle to complete content.

While this is not true for everybody, we totally acknowledge that a lot of people feel this way. Because PvP is so extremely important to quite a few people, it is important to us that the PvP systems we will implement actually work well and are fun to play, and we did not feel this was the case for Team Deathmatch mode for the reasons explained in the blog.

In regards to Diablo II, that game was never really designed as a PvP game, but over time a PvP culture developed around the duelling system that resulted in a lot of people putting a lot of effort of that game into creating and gearing duelling characters. This should hopefully become possible in Diablo III as well come patch 1.0.7.

Again, it is important to emphasise that PvP in Diablo III hasn't been scrapped. While Team Deathmatch mode might not happen in the format that was shown at BlizzCon, something else will.
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The fun in D2 was to destroy other players and get their ears.

So yeah, PVP IS the Holy grial for a Diablo game, this is not WOW were you strugle to complete content.

While this is not true for everybody, we totally acknowledge that a lot of people feel this way. Because PvP is so extremely important to quite a few people, it is important to us that the PvP systems we will implement actually work well and are fun to play, and we did not feel this was the case for Team Deathmatch mode for the reasons [url="http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6816948/Diablo_III_PvP_Update_-27_12_2012"]explained in the blog[/url].

In regards to Diablo II, that game was never really designed as a PvP game, but over time a PvP culture developed around the duelling system that resulted in a lot of people putting a lot of effort of that game into creating and gearing duelling characters. This should hopefully become possible in Diablo III as well come patch 1.0.7.

Again, it is important to emphasise that PvP in Diablo III hasn't been scrapped. While Team Deathmatch mode might not happen in the format that was shown at BlizzCon, something else will.


well from my side of view developers should put pvp in opening diablo3 so in mean time they would make pvp balanced but now its to late to put a piece of crap and explain its not yet balanced and need to work hard for that. So that was their mistake :)
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