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For those who don't know what I am talking about, it is this huge fuzz regarding:
Looks like whenever blizz does something, the community thinks it sucks, but whenever one of the community suggests something, everybody is so thrilled and think they are better than the devs themselves. I've even seen some stupid threads named "Kripp for president" just because that guy gave some insight opinions over the game.
So back to why that patch doesn't make much sense.
1) Trading post. Trading post has so many conceptual flaws that it is hard for me to decide of which should I begin. I will do my best.
- gold is not useless. If it was we wouldn't be able to build chars for less than 10M and do ubers on high MP. Check youtube or other budged gears.
- there is a reason why gold was invented, please talk with an economist, check wikipedia.
- trading post opens new opportunity to all kind of flippers. It will be the flippers heaven, and players will be back on this forum to qq about loosing a valuable item to a piece of crap that they can't even use.
- there will be impossible to get a proper view over the value of an item.
- It will take ages to get an item since I am trying to get a good deal, I will try to get a nice ring for example, and offer some helm that I have. And nobody wants my helm, because I have no idea that the helm is not valuable at all, since there is no AH to tell me the price. And I will keep doing similar stuff, offering stupid items for something that I want and never receive. If my offer will be accepted, most probably I offered a way more valuable item. Somebody gets screwed here, for sure.
- the ah is flooded with expired auctions at the moment. Will you honestly believe that making the whole process harder, you will get several offers for an item that didn't sell for anything on AH?
I could keep dismantling the trade post for a while now, but don't want to make a huge wall.
2) the new brimstones.
Wow, getting new brimstones types, when salvaging some type of legendary item. And not 100% sure, just 5-10%. And not any item, just weapon. And not any weapon, but the ones with a certain type of damage. Seems kind of difficult if you ask me to get these brimstones, but anyway, Let's see what are they used for:
- "can be sold to a vendor for a significant amount of gold". because we now need gold in order to trade, right?
- "brimstones will be the key ingredients used to craft the newly updated Blacksmith and Jeweler items which are also being introduced with patch 1.0.9". Plans that were never introduced in this patch notes. So I will play a hell of a lot time, more than I do to get the hellfire ring, to obtain a certain brimstone, so I could craft some random ring. Ok. You know why? Because we didn't had enough plans/boa items/ingredients, so somebody sought to be necessary to add some more complicated recipes. And because I had to much space in my stash, and would like to put some more stuff there, that's why.
This system, just makes more complicated, and adds no value to the current system. If I want to salvage an item, I do it and get a brimstone, which I can use it to craft an amulet. Why would I want 7 types of brimstones to do the same thing? To be more complicated, harder to store, harder to craft?
3) The new ally.
The new ally seems interesting, I have to admit.
But there was a reason why it was removed from the game. I feel a little confused towards this idea. On one hand, I would like to grow my items, on the other hand, making it will feel mandatory to do so. So the RNG of the diablo, and diablo is all about RNG, will greatly decrease in usefulness.
I will just get a freaking Mempo with no useful stats and improve it, making it boa. Which will hurt the trading. And I will keep doing that for all my items and slowly become bis, like everyone else, with no desire to play further since I have nothing to improve anymore. If you think it is not possible to obtain all the ingredients/gold to do so, remember about the marquise gems and how people said nobody or 1% will be able to use them for the high price, and now there are several players with nothing but marquise in their gear. Similar stuff, only 1000 more.
It is a good idea, which is why blizz is working on it. Regarding the elemental damage weapons and legendaries, I feel that there are no unique properties describing them in that note. It is just a mention of the them, and how the inna's for example will work, adding 8% to only that type of damage, which will render inna into useless practically. And the same with other items. The bonus is to small to try to build your whole char around a type of damage.
5) Beam me up.
What? No no no, I don't want to receive information about my partners luck. Or identification of the items. Actually I feel like there is to much information already around there, with all those colorful skills spamming around, the glow of the item, the item's names, only one thing was missing: that's right, what other players from my party are getting from the monster. Now you have it.
PS: I got tired of writing this and will stop with my objective view over those patch notes, since I already know lots of players love it since it is not from blizz.
I support this thread for two main reasons.
First is the obvious. The design flaws in the dreamed patch. If it were to make it into the game, people would instantly understand how poorly it was designed. It was a good read, but not realistic at all.
Second one is the fact that people always think that the devs are a greedy, lazy and retarded bunch of people. If reality, it is not so. Sure, they have made some mistakes, but so have the players who offer these ideas. Usually what the devs come up with are more throught through. Even if it doesn't seem like it at first.
I do believe the itemization is the issue at the moment, and i am glad the devs are working on it. Hopefully the community won't pressure them to make the same mistakes they've made in the past. (remember? buff the legs so they'd be legs, so the rares will become useless? Or that the community would accept ANY kind of pvp, just so it would be rushed, and now whines about it not being perfect? Anyone?)
Edited by Madis#2353 on 24/04/2013 13:15 BST
I must say, that there are some good ideas in this dream, but it would create too many problems, and everyone would be screaming about the changes ruining the game. The auction house has been very good to me personally, and I would hate to see it go. A way to trade would be nice, but the bait and switch of D2 would be ever present, if a system to prevent it were not implemented. Some simple changes, such as freedom to move between acts, with the town portal system, without losing your Nephalim valor would be tremendous. The game doesn't need a complete overhaul, maybe just a few more tweaks, and, I know this is hard for most, a lot less complaining.
trading post opens new opportunity to all kind of flippers. It will be the flippers heaven, and players will be back on this forum to qq about loosing a valuable item to a piece of crap that they can't even use.
read these two then think on how flawed your argument is :)
if the second is true, how can a flipper ever exist?
Flippers heaver is NOW, when he can spend a few minutes because all items have a single value described with a few numbers, and give a proper estimation on how much he will earn.
That must be taken away. Make life harder for them, so that real players can occasionally get good deals.
Edited by marsovac#2732 on 24/04/2013 16:48 BST
It might have been for you, for some flippers and wallet warriors, but for the most of real Diablo fans (which mostly already left the game), it was the worst thing ever done to this series and them personally.
Hey there, I'm the op of the thread you have linked. I'm not against the developers in any way, I'm actually a really big fan when it comes to Blizzard in general. I made the post to get some discussion going on what players would like to see in future patches/expansions. I in no way think my ideas are 100% developed, that's the reason why I wrote it in Blizzard speak since they also very rarely give detailed write ups for their features.
I'll try to answer some of your points below, obviously not all of them.
I in no way said gold is useless, I'm just suggesting it be used in other ways. The main point of what I was trying to get across, which you actually point out in your reply is that it's too easy to gear a character fully to compete in the hardest difficulty. The AH was made extremely well, almost too well. People take what they have budgeted, open up the AH and plug in the desired stats they're looking for and click one button. There you're done, you've geared your character. The only thing left to do is farm Paragon levels. If you need an upgrade you just reopen the AH, buy an item and continue farming experience.
You also mention it opens up a "flippers heaven", how so? Right now an AH flipper can turn anything into profit, a trading post would remove many of them. And you say people are going to get scammed out of their good items? They have the final decision on what they are trading, how can someone be getting scammed when they are making the decision to trade one of their unwanted items, for an item they actually could use or want? Sure the items might not be worth the same in the economy, but it's an item the player wants.
Yeah the AH is flooded right now, because there's nothing to do with an undiserable roll when it comes to legenadry items. It gets a little better for higher level legendary items since they can at least be turned into a Brimstone and used for one purpose, the BOA necks.
The entire point of the new Brimstones was to make hard-to-get crafting materials...
It would help clean up a lot of the legendary items that you have already stated "flood the AH". We want them to be hard to get, people would risk salvaging items for these new Brimstones. I think you also misread my post when it comes to selling Brimstones for gold. I didn't say anything about selling the actual Brimstones, but rather providing some type of consolation item that you could sell to a vendor for gold when you didn't get a Brimstone. It would make sure eveytime you found a legendary item you were at least getting something.
You also misread when I talked about the types of items being associated with the type of weapon damage. I said that the weapon types would provide chances at specific Brimstones, but also jewelery provided a chance at any type of elemental Brimstone.. Armor that's DE'd would also provide a chance at the physical type Brimstone. Yeah it would create different values for each of the Brimstones, but that's alright.
When I talked about these Brimstones being used in new blacksmith, jeweler, and mystic recipes I meant upgraded versions of the plans already in game. Make these worth while to craft and they could surely be worth any number of the new Brimstones. These wouldn't be crafted how we could today, with how hard the new Brimstones would be to get nobody would be banging out hundreds of these crafts every day. Players would be required to save up crafting materials in order craft them. It wouldn't feel so bad DE'ing the last 99 of your 100 legendary items when you know you can eventually save up to craft an item. I also mentioned it would create a soft floor value cap on almost all legendary items, seeing how their potential salvaging materials are worth something, even though not 100%.
There should be crafted items in the game that are actually hard to craft. I'm not talking about finding the plans themselves (I personally have never found a legendary plan) but to actually craft the item. That's what the point of these Brimstones are, along with removing items from the economy. Think how hard Runewords were to craft in Diablo 2, maybe not that extreme but you should get my point.
Your points are valid and I was thinking of almost eveything you mention when I was putting my post together. I didn't show any of the costs associated with the Mystic but I can pretty much tell you that you wouldn't be buying a low rolled legendary item and upgrading it to it's fullest potential. I stated that this would require huge costs in both gold and Brimstones in order to upgrade stats. Sure someone could do it, but it would cost them a fortune. That's the point, when you do get that item that rolled 98% perfect there's a reasonable way of finding an upgrade, it's by collecting crafting materials and gold to work towards upgrading it to perfect version. In the current version of game, players that hit even 70%-80% of a perfect item they will probably never find an upgrade in that slot. I'd also like to point out that finding a legendary item with high stats is going to mean that if you were going to upgrade it to perfect, it wouldn't cost you nearly as many Brimstones or gold in order to do so. That's why the items worth would still be higher in the market then a low rolled item. I also mentioned that the unique properties on legendary items wouldn't be able to be upgraded, what you find is what you get making a market for perfect items.
I forgot to mention, you should notice on the examples of the items I had shown the stat ranges were much further apart then what we find on items today. This means that there is higher potential to have mixed values in the properties on one item, you might roll value for one property but the other could be far from perfect. This would make it take much longer to upgrade an item to perfect stats.
The BOA portion is to fight the people and dupers that would abuse the system to get all of their items to perfect status. It's now bound to them and doesn't directly hurt the economy, yeah it does take out a potential buyer but it wouldn't be as significant as what we see on the AH today.
I didn't go into this in too much detail and I do know Blizzard is working on it. I actually have a post in the works where I mention some different paths the developers are probably looking at going. I purposly left it open to get some discussion going but you're really the first person I've seen mention it. I'll give a brief summary of what I'll be going into with my new topic.
1. They could remove the elemental damage affix on all weapons. This affix would be instead rolled into the base damage of the weapon like I originally mentioned in my post. Equipping let's say your example of Inna's belt with 8% holy damage would add 8% damage to a weapon only if said weapon was also of the Holy Damage type. Yes, It would mean Inna's Reach would need to be changed to holy damage to become useful but I think that's what they'll be looking into when they fix itemization.This would also mean that when you're gearing your character you are looking for weapons and armor that synergize with each other, giving players some decisions to make. i'd expect if they went this route you'd see some weapons change damage types, and many armor peices have the ability to roll "Adds X% elemental damage".
2. The second path they could go is to remove elemental damage completely from weapons. It's not like they provide any benefit to the type of skills you use. A Wizard casting meteor receives no benefit when using a fire damage weapon over a cold damage weapon. It's kind of strange, but I see why they did this since it would become frustrating to find a weapon upgrade only to realize you lost the ability to use certain skills. If they did remove elemental damage they would have to make up for the loss in damage somewhere else, which would probably make the " +X% damage" affix the best candidate. It could be buffed to let's say maximum of 500% Damage then the current maximum of +50% Damage. Skills would need to be adjusted accordingly.
5) Beam me up.
I purposly wrote "with the option to turn it off" in the post to please people like you that think there's already too much information in there. Many people including myself would love this feature. Are you against the new elite/champion and goblin announcement too? Both of those announcements would appear a lot more then when someone finds a legendary item.
I've recieved quite a lot of feedback from my post on Diablofans, both positve and negative. That's exactly what I wanted. We want discussions in this crucial time when Blizzard's developers are working on future patches and expansions. It's up to us as a community to help guide them in the right direction rather than blow up on them after they release something we don't like or agree with.
Thanks to everyone for their feed back.
Edited by Monstrous#1404 on 24/04/2013 17:40 BST
That is relative, but I guess most people like trading post, because they like the let's call it "scraping", or "make due with what you get". It's more enjoyable for me personally to play that way.
I like this, because brings more diversity to this dull game...
This also brings more diversity...an improvement for sure. Same with itemization...
I am inclined to agree with you on this one. I don't care what items other people from public get, and if I play with a friend he shows me anyway.
I generally agree with OP.
Then why are you providing feedback on game design?Are you a game designer?
You are just afraid blizzard will take away your candy of "casual gaming".Well if you didn't notice the changes would change little into your casual gaming.
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