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I've been messing around with a lot of builds on higher mp levels recently trying to get some kind of Demon Hunter together that can actually play well as a ranged character. The build I have come up with here is NOT the answer to the Demon Hunters problems, but it is a lot of fun and tricky to master. If you want a challenge and to test out your skills i recommend trying this out, it's given me a lot of joy.
The main idea for this build is to deal as much damage as possible while stay out of harm's way making way for the ability to drop some EHP and go for more attacking options when it comes to gear. This build is mainly focused on SINGLE PLAYER usage. Its very strong on mid level Monster Powers, and can work well up to mp9. Mp10 is tougher basically because fights last soooo much longer and it's tough to keep distance.
It's a tough one needless to say and we've seen a few builds flying around here that seem to work ok and I've come up with a slightly different approach here. I thought to myself "what is the best way to keep ranged even at higher mp's" and the answer for me is to keep everything stunned or immobilized as much as possible.
There are multiple builds ive played around with. Please see the revised build below and older builds after.
Newest Build: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bPWdYg!YXe!aaZbZc
Steady aim: Since we're trying to play as a ranged character it makes sense to try and utilise a skill that gives us benifit from staying ranged.
Archery: For anyone using one handed Xbows it will give you much needed cc so you can proc nightstalker more often. Otherwise it just adds more damage for any weapon user.
NightStalker: Lets regen discipline shall we!
Entangling shot - Chain Gang or Shock Collar: Very important skill to help maintain range. Chain gang helps keep crowds controlled while shock collar does more damage and procs NS more often.
Bola Shot - Thunderball or imminent doom: This does some good Aoe damage as well as stunning the main target to help with control. Also procs NS very well. Imm doom will do more damage if you feel you can control the mobs ok with the other skills.
Cluster Arrow - Dazzling Arrow: Nuke and Stun the mobs all at the same time. Good for damage and crowd control.
Vault - Tumble: Escape route and mobility. When things get hot, this skill comes to its own.
Caltrops - Torturous Ground: This is really good for controlling the mobs and keeping those elites at bay. Great skill, but dont spam too much if low on disc.
Shadow Power - Shadow Glide: Shadow Glide really helps us keep a distance from the enemies. Mobility is key for this kind of build. If you get hit a lot use gloom or lower the mp level your at...
A big thing about this build and setup is Steppin when you need to. If you need more tips on Steppin check here: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7256817984
The GlassCanon Clan really know what they are doing when it comes to this. It really helps you keep a range from the mobs and allows you to do damage while moving. I've incorporated it into my game in my own way (Check mp10 video).
Here is the older build:
Cull of the Weak: This is what we are basing our build around. Its pretty much a perminant damage buff because we'll be slowing enemies as much as possible.
Night Stalker: This will be your only source of more discipline. We have no room for preperation here so unless you have Nats Legacy this skill is pretty vital.
Archery or steady aim: I highly recommend archery here as steady aim is very difficult to make use of the higher the mp level you go. Your call. Archery will fuel Night Stalker a lot easier if you are using 1handed Xbows too!
Bola Shot - Imminent Doom: This is you MAIN damage dealer. Yes it seems weird to use a hatred generator as your main damage dealer, but what are the advantages...
1) You can shoot this continuously without running out of any resource.
2) It's the most damaging of all our hatred generators
3) it has great AOE
4) The delay actually works in your favour when it comes to stunning skills (shoot a few bolas into a mob first, then stun them for 2 seconds... all the bolas go off while the enemy is stunned).
Caltrops - Torturous Ground: This is your main slow skill. Its great against elites as it stops them in their tracks allowing you to escape their grasp. Remember, it immobilizes the first enemies that walk within the area of effect, but after that remains on the ground for 6 seconds as a 60% slow skill. This is great for kiting enemies when needed.
Cluster Arrow - Dazzling Arrow: This is your once in a while damage/stun skill. DO NOT expect to spam this skill, its not what its for in this build. Imm Doom is your main damage dealer remember. Once you get your head around this concept then you can make it work for you. It's a spike damage dealer with the added bonus of stunning your enemies still.
With 2.6 aps i can shoot off one of these every 4 seconds, and 3 shots off at the start of a fight in 2 seconds.
Vault - Tumble: Mobility plain and simple. This is needed in my view to get you out of trouble, jails and speed around the fight zone.
Rain of Vengeance - Flying Strike: This is an underrated skill. The damage it deals is just ok, but it does a lot more than just damage. For 1 you can target an area with it so its focused anywhere on the battle field and concentrated in one spot. Secondly it stuns that zone and anything in it for the entire 5 seconds the skill is active. Very helpful once every 30 seconds.
Shadow Power - Gloom (or any rune variant at your digression): Remember, you are not primarily a tank and will not need to perma gloom! Your main way of not taking damage is to stay away from it. This is a panic button skill and for use against Reflect Damage groups. Save disc for caltrops and vaulting as much as possible.
Having said all of that, this does not mean you cannot tank! You can! Infact sometimes you need to. Phase beasts and teleporting enemies are almost impossible to keep distance from for more than half a second. The good thing about picking archery and not steady aim above is that tanking is more viable (if required) when using archery.
OLD VIDEO MP8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew77HIR1f78
I suffer from a lol death in this, but it shows a few different elite packs and large white mobs throughout. I need to get a vid of this build against some teleporters... Will capture that separately. The general rule is to try and tank them where you can using gloom. At lower mp's though it is less necessary to tank.
The best way to utilise this build is to have a decent attack speed. I haven't tried with a manticore or slow weapon but the main reason for the fast attack speed being a good option is that Night Stalker is your only source of Discipline. Critical hits proc a lot more often when shooting more projectiles/second.
I think any gear will pretty much work with this build (Please note i have tried but choose not to use the gear i recommend below as I'm in love with my normal gear too much! But its definitely worth considering...)
I highly recommend adding certain things to your arsenal:
minus hatred cost to Cluster Arrow
Although we're not trying to spam this skill it does deal more damage then bola shot and it does cause the enemies to be stunned. The more you can fire it the better overall.
Stone of Jordan
minus hatred cost to Cluster Arrow
+ %cold damage
This will again reduce the cost of cluster arrow and chill enemies all the time meaning all of your shots will deal bonus damage from cull of the weak even if you havent managed to stun or immobilize them.
Let me refer you to a couple of other posts where you can get general information about gearing a Demon Hunter:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7339823964 - General Advice thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7593579872?page=1#3 - Items and helpful info
My favourite has got to be:
the SCOUNDREL - Give him a BURIZA http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/burizado-kyanon with over 10% freeze chance and your laughing. It really helps you out no-end! Make sure he uses his multishot skill and stack the rest of his items with LOH/Attack speed stats.
Extra crit chance from him is also nice and helps a little with Night Stalker procs.
alternatively you can go for:
the TEMPLAR - The advantage to this is you get a tank to play with you. Stack an AZUREWRATH http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/azurewrath on him and you'll get another dude who can freeze stuff for you.
Extra hatred regen is always welcome when using a heavy hatred spender like Cluster Arrow.
the ENCHANTRESS - with a maximus sword http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/maximus gives you another tank and if you set out the skills of the follower so that she knockbacks and stuns as well as chickens the enemies from time to time, she can really be a great option.
Anyway, hope you try it out and have some fun... that's what the Demon Hunter is all about :)
Edited by D3MON#2220 on 28/05/2013 14:40 BST
Ah yes, i knew i forgot something... thought about this one earlier... haven't tried it yet, but seems like it would be a good idea.
I'll test it out, its gotta be a good option too. Still no matter how good i wouldn't change my gear around anyway :p but i'll test it and write it in as a good option if it works to plan. Cheers :)
i love the fact that you center it around bola being your main!
suggestion for the gear:
SOJ with max 12 bola damage (cold)
Quiver with max 14 bola damage
max is 26.
there are even mara's amulets with an extra max 12 if i am not mistaken.
total makes it 38% extra. And you are prepared to probably lose some stats to reach that.
You guys make some good points.
Michiel thanks, i thought about the bola shot bonuses when purchasing my cluster arrow soj the other day, then realized there's also no way to filter out bola on soj so thought id try another time, then forgot.
The double bonus damage (as in 2 pieces with bonus damage) to bola could be huge! I'll def add this to the recommended gear above, thanks for this suggestion dude. When i read it I had to slap myself round the face for not adding it in the first place :D
Not 100% sure about maras, i'd have to search the ah see if there are any maras that wont totally nerf your stats. It could be counter productive if you have to drop say 90cd and 100 dex on your rare amulet for the bola bonus, it may give bola less damage because of this. You also want to be dealing damage with the other skills on top of bola too.
DFB, windforce would probably work pretty damn well, although it could be counter productive with the RoV rune i use in the build. Will have to do some testing with it, but it makes sense that it could improve the build somewhat. Worth looking into for sure!
Edited by D3MON#2220 on 01/05/2013 07:22 BST
Mara's indeed can be a big disadvantage with your other stats, I couldnt find any that were good enough.
And for the SOJ... yes it takes quite a bit of running through the AH lists. Took me some tie to find one that had cold damage and had a proper +% on bolashot.
I use my bola as my main also, I do use spike trap cause it does more damage, but is not easily aimed. My bola citics around 300-500k and my spike trap around 450-600 per bang. Both buffed by CtW and Archery btw.
Cant find a Bola Shot SOJ with cold.... i cant look anymore until the filters are added... :D i'll go insane!!!
Will be adding an mp5 and mp10 vid later today if i can get the time on here :P
Tried a few other high mp builds recently, and although the trap/tank builds are by far the best, this one works so well for me on mp8. I would love if if some gave it a go and let me know what you think. If not never mind, but hey, i tried :P
I also updated the build a little with a more survivability option in the passives.
Edited by D3MON#2220 on 04/05/2013 10:02 BST
Had a first go today for an hour or so in act3. Dont have the Buriza, and spending 30mil on it now doesnt work for me. Especially with 1,08 being the moment lvl63 versions could be rolled. I use the templar as follower for now, with skycutter. Freeze chance (low) and summons Angels to fight for you. Procs really good with my gear.
Not good enough for MP8 yet (I just keep dying ^_^), so tested mostly MP5.
I had trail of cinders instead of tumble btw.
What I love...
Its cool to stun all screen, there is truly a big advantage there.It almost feels like you can play like a cat plays with a mouse. I got lucky on the AH some time ago and scored a decent SOJ with cold and bola %. I change it often with another ring that gives me +26k DPS. Damage usually doesnt differ too much. But with this build it was difference of night and day. Finally feel I have some value for my money spent!
Usually I miss my direct damage skill like EA or HA, but with this build you just delay the enemy enough to not need a direct damage skill. Its kinda wired at times, but its a fun build!
What I miss...
Speed... I take much more time clearing, although I love that your can really manipulate the mob to group to maximize Bola. Usually I use traps and turrets, even though they are not perfect, I feel higher damage is delivered. Is it just me or is Dazling Arrow not procing enough? I switched to stun grenades a few times and felt it was more efficient.
Or maybe I am not just a kite player ;).
- Play more!
- Windforce! :) Curious if it would lower the need to kite.
- Change caltrops to jagged spikes, proc's with Gloom for live return. Maybe will help me survive higher MPs.
- Experiment more with stun grenades.
- Have some good stun/freeze/chill gear, will drop my DPS to 200k I think, but will check it out if it does any extra.
I really appreciate you testing out the build man. Thanks!
From what you've said i think we've had similar experiences with it. I totally love the fact that you can stun everything and manipulate the enemies a little more while using bola to aoe the lot.
I know what you mean with speed too. if i change back to a trap/tanky build i can kill stuff quicker. But its a different playstyle and not as fun for me... doesnt make me wanna play, whereas this build makes me enjoy my playtime with the DH.
I've found recently switching out archery for vengeance and torturous ground for jagged spikes a little better in the survival department. Also i can spam out a few more cluster arrows because of the extra hatred which means i stun stuff more often... As you mentioned though it doesnt always proc which can be anoying, but its often enough i guess.
Stun grenades seemed good for stunning, but less good for ranged and damage dealing. I find about 1/4 the time i need to tank a bit anyway because some mobs are crazy hard at range, but i dont wanna replace bola or another skill for grenades. Shame coz stun grenades are a real good way of stunning big groups.
Have got a bid on a windforce right now, waiting for that to come in and i'll try it out also. Def could be a good way to go i think as DFB mentioned above too. Probably socket it with a ruby and go for the cluster DML for some bonus CA spamming.
Still working to perfect it myself, might take a lot more trial and error, but at least its pretty fun :P
Thanks again, glad your having a go dude. :)
Ye dude, gave that a go. Was very weak, the good thing about CA is it does a hell of a lot of damage over an area too. The imaple skill is single target and no way near enough damage considering that. Cant sun multiple enemies at once either.
I actually found one of the best damaging skills instead of CA was Multishot - full broadside, but then you have one less skill to stun with and its not the stun ranger any more :P
Windforce is not working for me with this build.
knockback with bola shot means in a cricle shape. Placing the mob all over the place. Means more work to clear.
DPS is also down 45K, ouch.
I fell in love with CA again, used it in the beginning and abandoned it because of the cost. Have been using a more loose approach to my firing speed. Now its my opening shot, it feels good to punch the first punch again! The cycle of CA, pump Bola, caltrop and reposition is fast and active.
Even though I run often out of hatred, it doesnt matter cause Bola is my main DPS skill.
Disc is also an issue, need to control my vaulting a bit to conserve it for caltrops.
I use some proc gear now, kills my DPS with 20k I think. EHPS also took a big hit, my repair costs are a bit higher.
5.1 stun on gloves
4.2 Chill on shoulders
4.1 Slow on pants
Not sure if it really works in overall effectiveness. It sure feels at home with the Stun Ranger ;).
hi, I like the idea of the Stun Ranger :) will give it a try for sure...
I was wondering about two things :
Cold SoJ - why would you want one? If I am not mistaken the snare from it aplies only to skills dealing just "xx% weapon dmg", and in this build RoV is the only one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were some discussions about this and all are pointing to just a few DH skills that deal just weapon dmg.
Passive Grenadier - although the main dmg dealer is the Bola, -10 hatred would be a great bonus, especially if you combine it with DML -5 and a -5 SoJ. Would replace CtW for this one. It would decrease the eDPS but would increase the possibility to stun more, keep mobs in place and deliver those Bola's. Not even sure if it would decrease eDPS as you could deliver more DMG to more often stunned mobs without repositioning a lot, thus spending more time spamming Bolas.
Needs to be tested, will try to find some time today to do it.
I also tried windforce out just now, not for long mind you so i need to do a little more testing, but it really wasnt working great either. As you mention Michiel the bolas dont react too well with it.
PatuljakMali you may be very right about the snare from cold soj... i dont think it works with bola, not sure about CA though... will have to research this and check it out. Some build editing to be done above i think.
Alos grenadier is a possibility but i dont think its worth replacing cotw for... test it out and see what results you get PatuljakMali.... might be a possibility there but not sure its worth it.
Ive been testing out this build:
And i have to say ive been getting much better results in terms of controlling packs of enemies and survivability. It basically replaces caltrops with entangling shot (4hit rune) for the slow.
It means you can slow mobs more often to make bola more powerful and easier to control the mobs too. Its free of cost so you have more to vault with and gloom with. Basically shoot out bolas and one of these entagle shots every couple of shots, then spam out all the clusters when your fuull of hatred...
Try it out, its working for me.
Just tried out the original build in the OP in mp4. It seems to work for me.
I want to try out stun bolas tonight and use echoing blast for damage... I know from experience that CA glittering arrow does better at stun, but the hatred cost is just too high.
Rain of vengeance was a good touch btw :)
I couldn't wait 'til tonight. I replaced cluster arrow with echoing blast and used the stun bolas. This fits my playstyle a bit better. The caltrops lock the mobs onto the traps and the bolas get a decent stun rate.
Edited by mightilybix#2916 on 06/05/2013 06:50 BST
Wrote a post yday but nothing got up on the forum, wierd!
Well il give it another go then...
Have had quite a break on my DH because i seriously got pissed on the !@#$ing tank n spank style... But i decided to try this because D3MON tend to try out nice things :)
So i tried it out yday with a -CA gear/spec and it worked out quite well. I actually feel like a ranged class again for once! But i think i got the wrong weapon for this spec tbh.
A highend manticore would suit it better imo! But on the other hand i use Bait caltrops and cap myself at 75% crit with my Calamity so Disc regen from passive is extremly nice.
Also when enemies get close to me they get slowed in the caltrop and i can vault back and start over. Or i could just stand and tank the rest of the dmg i need to do.
I dont think Mara's is the way to go tho. You loose alot of nice dps stat you can gain on a Rare neck.
However a -5 SoJ with high elite dmg is probably still worth getting!
1 more thing with SoJ that also nice is the +10 disc bonus. Then we could sacrifice our 4set Nat's bonus without it hurting to much on our Disc.
But i guess the next thing to change out is a highend mempo vs my nat's helm and that kinda costs to much!
hi again, last night I did some running with this build
combined with gear bonuses SoJ -4 CA, DML -5 CA, CA comes to 31 cost. Used a Calamity (in my profile) with Ruby. DPS 215 k. Scoundrel with Buriza as follower.
Went for MP 7 over following maps :
Tower of the Damned 1
Arreat Crater 2
Tower of the Cursed 1
Keeps 2 & 3
Fields of Slaughter + Cavern of Frost
I had my fair share of deaths due to various reasons from adjusting to the build (last week or so been playing Patronito's Explosion, before that Winforce build, so nothing similar to this which resulted with hitting the wrong buttons :D ) to those stupid situations when you for no reason refuse to move conviced that everything will just die :D I guess, I just need a bit more time to get used to it.
I like the build and the play-style. Low cost of CA gave me an opportunity to wack it as often as I wanted, and if low on hatred RoV comes in :) I chose Caltrops:JS as they help alot with Teleporter/Vortex or Phasebeasts, and it gives you nice LS combined with SP:Gloom. So when they come on top of me I would pop SP + Caltrops, Vault away and shoot CA while they're still standing on trap. Low cost on CA also made it possible to blast 2 of them in a row if the first one does not proc stun, so keeping mobs stunned is no issue at all. Didn't notice any special problems besides my poor performance.
I guess this variation would work better with higher DPS, so it would be nice if someone else gave it a shot :)
Anyway will try to play with it a bit more.
Thanks for the build D3MON :)
Glad to see you guys giving it a go! And great that it works out for you all. Going to add the entagling shot option and any variations above now so hold tight for the update.
Grenadier is def an option when combined with the other -CA cost gear. The more you can lay out the stun Clusters the better for slowing down the mobs so thats cool.
This is the great thing about the build, you have the option to either tank if you need to, sometimes its better when the mobs are crazy fast or teleport etc. Otherwise you can trap them, vault away and stay out of harms way :)
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