Diablo® III

DPS vs tDPS on monks vs barbs, DPS ring vs SOJ and more

Heya all,

I've been checking out barbs and it seems like they can buff for about 12.6x their unbuffed DPS (no passives etc.).

Sooo I've been wondering, what's better - a DPS ring or an SOJ? How much can monks buff? I don't even probably want to know how much barbs buff with HOTA, heh. Considering we're not immune to all CC effects like barbs are, we should probably buff more (so we make up for the time lost under fear, etc.) and since we're both melee classes and whatnot, we just gotta tank that desecrator, plague, etc.

Right?

Well, I'm 261.3k unbuffed. On a MP10 Ghom out of averaged 10 runs (minus 1 max and 1 min measurement to cut out the margin of error) with my DPS ring I averaged at about 2.44m tDPS, which is 9.33x as much as my paper DPS is.

That's 35% less than barbs.

Right, so my DPS ring is probably garbage (the HF ring, yes) and I've bought a near-perfect SOJ (don't need spirit regen, got high AS thank you).

220.5k unbuffed. tDPS 2.74m DPS. 12.4x.

That brings us more or less in the line with barbs. Right? Yeah, not really, because we lose A LOT of time not DPSing on all the CC effects and with an SOJ you can never really reach the insane amounts of DPS barbs can.

P.S.: Barbs still suck, monks rule <3
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Personally I dont have an issue with Barb's damage output, I've played with high DPS barbs and in terms of raw dps it felt like I killed the mobs quicker or at least at about the same speed.

But the immunity to ALL cc is an issue.

The only upside is that Blizz have recognised this and have plans to rectify it in some way; altho when this will happen is anyones guess and the barb community will turn into a massive rage-fest when the changes do finally happen (no one likes being nerfed).

I know the plan is to make it impossible to maintain 100% uptime on wrath of the berserker but perhaps just turning the CC immunity into a CC duration reduction or something would be enough?

I dunno.
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@ AdHoc

First of, i would like to ask why you are using the TDPS metric when describing the damage output of your monk ?

The word you are looking for should be EDPS, as the TDPS metric only works for ww/nado barbs..

Anyway, i think you should start to looking into the PDPS to EDPS ratio for Witch Doctors instead, with these new changes..

One example, showing what can be done when you take it to a extreme:

Diablo III - World Record MP10 Ghom kill 6.95s - Fire bats @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HptX8CCXE

Thats ~20mil EDPS...
Edited by Det0x#2856 on 08/05/2013 20:34 BST
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Now, now, Det0x, let's not get out of hand here. First of all, that WD had to build up his gruesome feast for quite some time. It's true WDs deal INSANE amounts of damage BUT they have to stay steady while doing it. Quite frankly WDs suck - mostly because as soon as you run into an elite that kites you you'll never kill it. That's why a WD is an AWESOME partner with a CS monk + CM wiz.

However, barbs don't have that problem now, do they? No CC effects on them whatsoever (elites = literally same as normal mob, only more HP) and the damage barbs deal is insane all the while they're more than 100% mobile (if 100% is your default movement speed). Completely uncomparable.
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09/05/2013 08:20Posted by AdHoc
Quite frankly WDs suck - mostly because as soon as you run into an elite that kites you you'll never kill it. That's why a WD is an AWESOME partner with a CS monk + CM wiz.
Never ever you say. You need a monk and a barb to do this baby:

http://youtu.be/HSAdeCJq_cU

Too bad wd´s can´t use a lol spell on mp10. Think that a barbie could drop zerk and replace it with seismic slam or just as easily a monk could drop overwawe and use inner sanctuary instead. No wait dropping TC is too much ^^

I prefer monk
I rather play with a monk
Edps? Palm.
Build diversity (if that matters)

Deleted paragon lv93 barbie myself, If I may say the gameplay is retarted.
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I agree that playing a barb is about as exciting as watching grass grow (hence the hours of played on mine - I think 3 or 4 hours was it?) and I mentioned it.

I watched the video and you know what you did there mate. Now show us a video of you killing a pack of succubuses on MP10 :P

P.S.: You don't need a barb to do anything in this game :)
Edited by AdHoc#2426 on 10/05/2013 08:06 BST
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10/05/2013 07:36Posted by AdHoc
I watched the video and you know what you did there mate. Now show us a video of you killing a pack of succubuses on MP10 :P
Here you go:

http://youtu.be/Z1-OhgT_deI

What´s next :P
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Well nothing else mate, that would be all. I saw a lot of kiting, running around and chasing, not doing any damage meanwhile whatsoever.

Wanna see barbs smash those succubuses in a few seconds?

I did not see 20m eDPS on that video. Did you? That's the whole point, when barbs run in guns blazing how some dude gruesome feasted his immobile target with some extreme DPS.
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Well nothing else mate, that would be all. I saw a lot of kiting, running around and chasing, not doing any damage meanwhile whatsoever.

Wanna see barbs smash those succubuses in a few seconds?
Yes. Please link a barbar with ef killing 5 succubus packs in less than 10s each. Also did you look at affixes? Shielding,reflect,frozen,jailer,fast and so on. I didn´t count but think that the longest fight was 30s. I don´t care at all if a barb can kill a pack 2s faster lol.

10/05/2013 18:39Posted by AdHoc
I did not see 20m eDPS on that video. Did you? That's the whole point, when barbs run in guns blazing how some dude gruesome feasted his immobile target with some extreme DPS.
If I use voodoo you will :D That video detox linked was taking things to extreme, nothing special in it, pretty much every wd can do the same. I´ve now made 3 videos on using bats only on different areas. Imo wd doesen´t suck and if some nasty kiting pack takes 20s to kill when average time is below 10s ain´t no thing and 20s sure as hell ain´t never. That was my point.
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@ AdHoc

Its kinda funny you think you know so much about barbs, when its obvious you don't have a clue what your talking about..

I would recommend you reading this thread if you really want to learn some real knowledge about barbs, before you open your mouth next time :)

Fast farming vids and theorycrafting @ http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8088618856

The point of this thread were to kill 10 elites/packs in act2, Vault of the Assassin.. And find the average time used to kill them.

Most of the barbs that contributed in that thread, have a average killtime over 20sec per pack/elite.
And this was done by players optimized for actual playing the game, and not a useless ranking @ diabloprogress..

If we were to only focus on killing succubus, you can bet your behind the average killtime would be way over 20sec per elite/pack.

Btw, is it a coincident that you failed to mention that monks are the fastest DE farming class in your rant over how imba the barbs are ?

@ Jumbasa

Nice videos, especially the music, I really liked it :)
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Well I'd like to point out that I never stated I know a lot about WDs and Barbarians. I respect Jumbasa for his knowledge regarding WDs and I've heard you're quite a good barb Det0x, so obviously I will not argue with your arguments as I know you both surpass me in respective classes.

I am not sure where the agression is coming from, as I created this thread with a purpose of arguments - and this is what we're having here, so my goal was accomplished.

I am really glad to see representative(s) of WDs and Barbs here defending their class as really good and efficient, this is great! Personally, I'd have a WD in my farming group all the time if possible. To be honest, I'd say best farming group I can imagine would be a EP monk, a CS monk, a CM wizard and a COB witch doctor. This 4 men party would probably be simply OP, provided we'd all be geared good enough for MP10 faceroll.

Det0x, you're trying hard to point out Barbs are not as good as monks. I agree, I stated the same thing in my first post in this thread. I still think a Barbarian is a better class for solo farming than WD, however.

And Jumbasa, you're wrong about skills selection. Monks have about a dozen skills all viable for MP10 farming as well. If WDs also have this skills variability this is simply awesome. Proves all the more that most exciting classes in this game are WDs and Monks. Just by checking my profile you can obviously tell that these two classes are also my favorite, with Monks being first of course.
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