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Hello Demon Hunters,
Note: I’m not trying to show how you “should” play ranged or telling anyone this is the way to do it. Just wanted to make a video of me playing some ranged builds and styles on mp10 and share it with you guys. I dont claim to be amazing or anything, just venturing to make ranged play work for me.
I’ve varied the builds throughout the movie and tried to get a mix of elites to fight against, but had some pretty limited time to record these…
Please note I will make and upload some more of these vids next week and I’ll try and find some more challenging packs, most of these in the video are relatively easy.
I discovered if I am to suffer no deaths then I really have to go for my stun ranger style build. Some elite packs are easier to kite and stay ranged from, but others are just a complete and utter nightmare.
Keeping things stunned really helps keep them at bay (well dah!)
I’ll probably be using this build to take on the harder packs in my next video upload.
Normally anything with the following affixes is going to be a tough group:
Vortex – Sucks you in, no longer ranged (have to spend disc or time getting away again)
Waller – Stops you getting away and they can crowd you
Jailer – See waller
Fast – Impossible to outrun without continuous vault or caltrops (bye bye disc – no shadow power for me)
Teleporter – Basically impossible to keep ranged, always one enemy in your face
Horde – The more to take down the harder it is to keep away from
Illusionist – Same as horde, although easier to kill (however see video…)
Reflect Damage – All disc spent on Shadow Power, none left for other means of escape (caltrops or vault)
I think then when encountering a pack that has any 2 of the above affixes means that you will probably have to face tank them.
I don’t know about others but I find these mobs virtually impossible to stay ranged against in the style that I play.
Maybe Buttran’s build and playstyle is better for these type of packs…
He’s def not glass canon and kinda half ranged half tanky. When I try and be a tank with my build and gear it really shows my weak spots. I can just about do it with gloom, but sometimes I get wiped out completely (see video against Elite Phasebeasts).
In the part with the Phasebeasts that own me all over the place I wanted to show a pack that I find virtually impossible to range against. Tried to tank them and for me it only half works (more EHP needed or what! =D) As oyu can see I kinda lose the will to live in this battle :P and experience some crazy lag which definitely doesn’t help matters.
Stutter stepping helps for keeping a range and for kiting back a bit. I’m not great at it yet so cant crowd control with it like some of the better dudes out there, but it helps.
Anyway, just wanted to share this with the community and catch your thoughts. More to come on the video front next week when I get some recording opportunities.
Video is sped up slightly (2/3 time) to make it shorter overall…
Well.. that just looks painful.
If that doesn't prove that DH's need a buff i don't know what does.
On my barb i would have keep my hammer button pressed and they would have been dead in max 10 seconds.
O well, at least i play DH for fun and not efficiency sigh. I wonder what game the devs are playing though that they think DH is balanced compared to the other classes.
Anyway excuse my offtopic..
It works, its just a lot harder. When there's a mix of those affix's it becomes a nightmare and I need to tank.
This is one problem playing ranged... im here to try and make it work for me and others finding these difficulties... :P
HELP ahhh! :D
You can't expect to play ranged and not take any hits, as you said it's impossible to never take damage from certain types of mobs and/or affixes even if you try and stay ranged. You need to make sure that you can take atleast a few hits from any given bosstype without dying.
Ironically I'd say that DW is inferior to Manti if you try ranged, the high IAS when you DW means that you'll lose a good portion of your eDPS once you start stutterstepping and the loss of eHP from the DML will cripple you aswell.
Edited by Buttran#2605 on 14/06/2013 17:06 BST
DW is quite good in terms of survivability tho, i would say better than manticore, but so few ppl would gear for that in sc. as you can see quite clearly OP is not among such idiots :D, but if he is willing to let go of some of that paper dps (so useful when u ded!) and put on another 300 all res and 15k hp the anti-kiting packs woulda been facerolled non-tank style. i have an old vid where i managed to solo (tried to stay ranged as much as possible) 2x phasebeast packs on mp10 as DW w/o shadow power, ofc u are welcome to show me that it can be done wit manticore too :)
haha, you're right i could def do with some more EHP, as i mentioned.
And Buttran is also right, i cant expect to stay ranged ALL the time.
Its only really some packs that give me more difficulty.
problem is i can guarantee i could have tanked most of those elites (gloom is a wonderful thing) and taken them down a hell of a lot quicker because of that...
How do you get around this to give ranged an actual advantage of being ranged..? This is the dilemma. IMO steady aim just isnt enough of a ranged buff.
Nice vid D3MON! GZ for all the efforts you put in to keep the ranged style alive! And I must say that an improvement in your stutter stepping is great when compared to your first vid with steppin :)
My guess is that as you improve that aspect you'll keep more range as you could get out of reach from Vortex/Jail/Wall by keepin the mobs on edge of screen. Also I liked the last build with stun Bola as I think it gave you more survivability and I can't say for sure if you lost or won on eDPS compared to ID as more stun gives you more time to shoot without interruption. But it would take more testing to see the result.
But those PB's ...... that's one tough pack to stay ranged as fast + tele means always someone on top of you.
Keep up the good work :)
But the best survivability is to tank AND tanks can do more damage... Maybe not on lower mp's but there's very little problems with either survivability or damage on lower mps. I can't speak for hardcore, but lets talk softcore and high mps here.
Thanks man, getting better as I go. As you say I had much more joy with my stun ranger build, but def do a lot less damage overall. I guess the damage is made up by not having to dodge so much and move around quite as much.
When it comes to the harder elites I pretty much HAVE to go stun ranger... I don't see how else to out manoeuvre them. Surely even the best stutter steppers can't do that.
I think I def need some more ehp to play like this against the tougher packs. I can take a few hits but some packs are very hard wheat comes to trying to tank them if they have arcane and other dot effects.
Anyway, more to come...
that is only paritally true when u run into nigh-impossible to kite packs, even then mixing some (stutter step) kiting and dodging projectiles whenever possible will give better survivability than to tank the whole way. there are always situations (however unusual) where for a few seconds the incoming dmg becomes greater than what u can mitigate/ls back aka dying from burst dmg, kiting minimize the odds of that happening, while facetank maximizes it.
also, im fairly sure that if one uses "proper" tank gears aka high ehp with loh/ls/regen, kiting gives strictly better survivability than tanking, since a secondary effect of life regen stats from gears means less disc spent on sp and more on vault/caltrops, or even dropping sp for ss to break cc effects.
Why do you keep telling us this is how we should play, and that this is the way to do it?!
- - -
Demon bro, its just not gonna work. upto 1.08 its just a no go.
You should come to the dark side, the boring atatatatatatata. Lets discuss this ranger thing after patch hopefully they got something good to add. Until then.....
Theres a good rare 2h bow on AH atm. at 1d7 as im writing this. Im not gonna flip it :P (and its not mine I swear)
Problems with the way I'm playing here...
It's slower to kill packs the if I was to ratatatatata and tank them like that or to full on spike trap tank them.
It's harder to play as and takes some concentration.
It's easily to get into trouble and get swarmed (small bloomin maps)
Less ehp and more dps means I can die from a few hits and can't take some much.
The above point means that some packs that MUST be tanked because getting away from them is virtually impossible means when tanking them as a glassy char can lead to death sometimes.
Other then that it works. Guess most of you disagree... :D
I still like playing like this. It feels like a ranged char and feels like I'm dodging and evading and that's fun.
Maybe someone can see some positives from this ranged play...
Perhaps someone has some suggestions how to improve my ranged play?
i have one suggestion:
Use smokescreen instead of vault and use preparation +nightstalker so you can spam it while using gloom
SmokeScreen give you protection while stucked in bad situation just the time stay alive, save you when catched by vortex and you can reallocate yourself.
I think it's one of the best skills for a high damage glass cannon setup letting deliver your 500k dps easily
That's an interesting suggestion Mesercus... Ill def give that a go when I'm back online tomorrow.
Was thinking about smoke screen last night and how that could really help, but the disc cost will kill me. With prep and Nightstalker together it might work... Shame I need shadow power for the life steal, otherwise I could just use smoke screen.
you have an insane damage , so you never tought using a very high dps WF with 3% ll , removing shadow power and use nether tentacles in his place as an additional attack just versus the reflect packs?
3%ll from the bow with 400k dps means you'll gett full life anyway in 3-4 fast hits and 6%ll vs reflects should be enough with smoke screen +preparation
If you use shock collar you can add some life on hit will help too
Edited by Mesercus#2892 on 15/06/2013 12:07 BST
@Mesercus It's almost impossible to put anything else in D3MONs hands but DW set up :) although WF is good for keepin range.
As you have mentioned EA:NT it's a good skill combined with WF, if you add cold SoJ and tkae something like this :
Both HA and NT will proc cold, so CtW up all the time. Sentry can be replaced for ST or whatever you like.
D3MON have you ever tried FLIGHT's build?
Stun and slow with ST under them. You could change Gloom to Shadow Glide for more distance.
Or my theory crafting :
Didnt try this one but the idea is to gain gap via CC and Steppin, Multishot is both DMG and disc regain. RoV is in as CC and some DMG, hatred free so more for MS. Guess you could change it to whatever you like or miss. From Passives TA is optional, could go fro SA, Vengeance, Perfectionist, or CtW (combined with cold SoJ would be nice for MS) or whatever you like.
Just tryin to throw out some ideas :)
EDIT : credit for the WF cold SoJ build goes to TastySouP from US forums.
Edited by PatuljakMali#2757 on 15/06/2013 12:43 BST
^ The NT + HA got me interested since i'm using a WF right now (yeah can't afford a manti)
But NT is slow. That's my main concern.
I'll give it a try tonight. I'm really interested right now.
I'm thinking HA + NT + Scatter. All will proc CtW
Edited by SwSw#2890 on 15/06/2013 12:40 BST
Well I must say i didnt expect you to like it SwSw but I'm glad you do :)
Edited the post to give credit to the guy who put it up together. Heres the topic where I found it :
I have tried it both with Sentry and ST:Scatter on MP8, but just for a short time, will give more runs and some proper testing. You're right on Scatter for cold proc. If you go this way CtW is 100% up.
Would love to hear your feedback on it.
I like all these ideas being thrown out here.
Mali is right about the whole DW thing. I see the advantage of WF but I do drop loads of dps and I just love to DW too much.
If anything I more trying to find a way to play ranged as a DWer...
I'm definitely interested in trying some builds based around smoke screen and maybe even throw in tactical advantage on there.
I've been concentrating on being so glass canon like that I've neglected the mobility advantages of skills like these.
I've tried flights build before. Mostly been playing with DiEoxidEs shock hunter mixed with a bit of stun ranger...
Thing is when it works I love the play style of the stun ranger and shock hunter. I really wanna be able to play like that and be efficient... As you case in the vids, I can play like that it not necessarily the most efficient way of playing. And I have to tank sometimes, which doesn't really go hand in hand with the build or gear...
Ill mess around with some smoke screen and tactiacal advantage ideas tomorrow and see where it heads. Ill still make more vid like I was going to... Stun ranger v harder packs in VotA or something. Didn't have a lot of time to encounter them when recording the other day. That PB pack was the hardest I came across and I just couldn't deal with them and the lag with my build....
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