Diablo® III

Frozen orb weapon damage tested

I've many people favoring the new frozen orb skill and i've also seen people claiming it to be overpowered so i decided to test its true weapon damage in relation to its tooltip that claims 393% weapon damage.

This is how i did it.
I started with removing all gear that could increase my damage with anything but mainstat (weapon, offhand, +%skill dmg, +%elemental dmg, crit and so on). I bought 1 ring with 26 max damage and another ring with 26 min damage. leaving me with 880 intelligence and no other dmg increasing factors

Next i needed to find out how much 100% weapon damage for my character is. I did this by using magic missile and seeker rune that does 211% weapon damage. Now every attack i did was between the ranges of 580 and 600. So averaging 590 divided by skill increase of 211% weapon damage, equals 280=100% weapon damage (590/2,11=280)

Next to find out how damage frozen orb does. First thing i did was figure out how many times frozen orb could hit an enemy. By watching the damage number i found out it could hit an enemy 2 to 3 times. The first time it deals damage is if the "orb" whilst in air passes through an enemy. The second when the orb explodes. The third pretty much directly after it explodes without any visual cue. So if the enemy isn't standing in path of your orb or isn't directly pierced you will deal damage to it twice and if it does three times.

So this is the damage the orb did after extensive testing. 1st hit: 725-740. 2nd hit 1098-1114. 3rd hit: 349-355. Now by dividing this by 100% weapon damage (280 damage) we find that the 1st hit does 260% weapon damage. 2nd hit 393 % weapon damage and 3rd hit 125% weapon damage.

This means frozen orb deals 518%-778% weapon damage depending on how you hit the mobs. Now i did try the same thing with arcane orb with the rune spark and it does hit twice but for 174% weapon damage each time equaling to what it says on the tooltip (349%)

EDIT: After suggestion to redo the test with only the minimum damage ring to avoid damage variation i got the following results that concludes the same fact:
Okey, results from only using min damage ring (rounded off some numbers)
Magic missile seeker damage =459 no variation
459/2,11=217 damage
100% weapon damage= 217

FO Tooltip 393% weapon damage
1st hit: 570 damage = 262% weapon damage (no variation)
2nd hit: 855 = 394% weapon damage (no variation)
3rd hit: 279 = 128% weapon damage (no variation=
Total 784% weapon damage (392%x2 very close to exactly double, most likely off because rounded off numbers)

Arcane orb spark rune Tooltip 349% weapon damage
1st hit 380 = 175% weapon damage (no variation)
2nd hit 380 = 175% weapon damage (no variation)
total 350% weapon damage (close enough to tooltips 349)

EDIT2: Someone said i should try how it works on a big enemy like Azmodan to see if it can hit more times. My first test where on act 1 zombies but i just did an Azmodan run and it works exactly the same. Azmodan can be hit 3 times by FO for a total of 758% weapon damage
Edited by UrsaBaby#2866 on 10/03/2014 00:01 GMT
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Probably like Nether Tentacles after release. Soon there will be a patch saying "fixed a bug where Frozen Orb dealt more damage than intended" and noone will use the skill anymore.
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I like the idea that you can increase your damage with correct positioning and smart play. But compared to the other arcane orb runes, frozen is by far the best currently. Most damage and biggest area of effect. I definitely think the other runes are viable so if frozen was in par with them i think it could still be used.
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Honestly is any other spell justified right now?
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I think FO is alright because you cannot get that close to enemies after T5. The T5 elites’s Jailer/Thunder Storm all hit longer than FO is you want to hit right through them or you have to shoot one and run away; I don’t call it ‘kiting’ because it is a really really slow process. It is much better to shoot Magic Missile or Lightning Blast from where you cannot see them or only hit them when they are stunned/slowed. Also a long process but better than FO.

Arcane Mines or Meteor are much better because you can hit them at most further part of the screen. Arcane Mines can be set up and lure elites in for triggering them; much safer way than Disintegrate or FO or other projectile attacks.

Originally, I thought Meteor – Molten Impact is the best suited for T6 because I want to continuously dealing damage with Lightning Blast + Cannoneer but I found it out the hard way that the elites are just simply too fast and getting close too quickly that I cannot use Lightning Blast + Cannoneer continuously anyway. If that is the case, Arcane Mines has much better damage output in one go (6 mines at the choke point) and much safer kiting option. Molten Impact is really good as well but much lower damage output in the same time period with 15 seconds cool down and it is easy to miss hit when I am running away from Elites.
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So whats the best way to hit your orb?
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Richnieh: Definitely not OP as in gamebreaking but the thing is even without good positioning FO deals more damage then most meteor runes for a cheaper cost, bigger aoe, built in slow and no need to predict your enemies movement. And no other arcane orb rune comes in any way close in comparison. Based on the fact that the tooltip is (that is correct for the other runes of arcane orb) showing a different number i wouldn't be surprised if FO will get a nerf.

Godlike: You wanna hit it so the orb pierces(goes through) the enemies you wanna damage. That way you'll get a whopping 778% weapon damage

EDIT: So i just noticed that 778 is pretty much double of the tooltip damage of 393. So my guess is if it's supposed to be consistent with the arcane orb spark rune where all hits equals the tooltip damage, frozen orb is currently doing double intended damage
Edited by UrsaBaby#2866 on 06/03/2014 12:42 GMT
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Posts: 959
I am playing a full FO build and I say:

Fix it.

Cant play other builds because FO is completly OP.

Even if it did the same damage as stated in the tooltip its AOE would still be superior to other runes.

Another (soft) advantage is that it evens the damage out. You will not be critting by huge amounts, but the damage is distributed better-> higher effective DPS

PS.:

Now every attack i did was between the ranges of 580 and 600


How is this possible if your min and max damage is the same?
Edited by Nasabot#2815 on 06/03/2014 12:46 GMT
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Yea the damage is pretty insane but other thing to consider is proc rate or whatever it's called. It's absolutely terrible I added paragons to LoH (about 550) and barely got any HP back after hitting 10 mobs, if expansion farming requires LoH for healing it may not be so good.
Edited by Saittis#2254 on 06/03/2014 13:05 GMT
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I am playing a full FO build and I say:
PS.:

Now every attack i did was between the ranges of 580 and 600


How is this possible if your min and max damage is the same?


My guess is your character has a built in min and max damage. Even without any items i deal between 4-6 damage on every hit (this is normal hits, not including crits). Anyway the difference is so small it shouldn't make any difference in the calculations.
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06/03/2014 13:05Posted by Saittis
Yea the damage is pretty insane but other thing to consider is proc rate or whatever it's called. It's absolutely terrible I added paragons to LoH (about 550) and barely got any HP back after hitting 10 mobs, if expansion farming requires LoH for healing it may not be so good.


This, i get more LoH back from auto attacking with Glacial spike than with frozen orb. It rarely counts anything as an actual hit. While the spell does more dmg its definitely not broken

If anyone everplayed d2(where this spell came from) frozen orb worked the same way in d2, EXACTLY. You could position yourself to shoot the orb and have it explode on your target to deal the most dmg because thats also where it released the most bolts.

there are definitely downsides to using it, and does not limit other builds.
I run around t3-4with my fire demon from maximus and run a fire builds just as easily.
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The trick is to only wear the + min damage ring, this alone will completely flatten the damage range so you get consistent results. Also, you can simply unequip a skill to get the basic 100% damage attack.
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06/03/2014 13:27Posted by zylog
The trick is to only wear the + min damage ring, this alone will completely flatten the damage range so you get consistent results. Also, you can simply unequip a skill to get the basic 100% damage attack.


I will redo the testing again just using the min damage ring. But i would like to point out that the variation in damage was less then 4%. And every other skill did the correct amount of weapon damage using the formula of 100% weapon damage= 280 damage within the slight variation of 4%. Except FO that did pretty much exactly double that.
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Okey, results from only using min damage ring (rounded off some numbers)
Magic missile seeker damage =459 no variation
459/2,11=217 damage
100% weapon damage= 217

FO Tooltip 393% weapon damage
1st hit: 570 damage = 262% weapon damage (no variation)
2nd hit: 855 = 394% weapon damage (no variation)
3rd hit: 279 = 128% weapon damage (no variation=
Total 784% weapon damage (392%x2 very close to exactly double, most likely off because rounded off numbers)

Arcane orb spark rune Tooltip 349% weapon damage
1st hit 380 = 175% weapon damage (no variation)
2nd hit 380 = 175% weapon damage (no variation)
total 350% weapon damage (close enough to tooltips 349)
Edited by UrsaBaby#2866 on 06/03/2014 13:52 GMT
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The problem is not the FO but Spark rune, it's terrible, FO build won't be good in expansion with this proc rate, everyone was running arcane torrent on beta, with life steal gone and LoH/APoC being terrible with FO you will have hard time healing through damage and the numbers are balanced around level 70.

That being said FO is strong as hell for now I won't deny it, but all the crying to nerf us after a week is sad, barbs were OP for a year or longer... and look at demon hunters now, they have even bigger problems with resource gen and survability, better focus on fixing the classes that fall behind imo.
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06/03/2014 12:23Posted by UrsaBaby
Richnieh: Definitely not OP as in gamebreaking but the thing is even without good positioning FO deals more damage then most meteor runes for a cheaper cost, bigger aoe, built in slow and no need to predict your enemies movement. And no other arcane orb rune comes in any way close in comparison. Based on the fact that the tooltip is (that is correct for the other runes of arcane orb) showing a different number i wouldn't be surprised if FO will get a nerf.


I know how powerful it is but I am talking about application of situation. Not damage alone.

What do you mean about positioning? I meant stand so far away so you can get away from elites at T5~T6 level. I don’t know which difficulty you are testing it on but I need to ask you to imagine if you fire one FO at a monster and if you don’t kill it, it one shot you and what are you going to do. Use your calculation for 778% weapon damage and my sheet damage is 554k so one FO does 4.31 millions and 4 FO hit straight is 17.24 millions. Guess what, you need another 12 FO to kill the weakest T6 elites. Trust me, you just cannot do that in T6. One Vortex or Jailer spell and you are dead and you might not even have a chance to fire the first 4.

I used FO before and it does not work for me. I either don’t see the enemy and just missed the FO (T6 Act 3 Keep, difficult to see enemies) or the elites get too close. IMO, I have to have 1 million toughness to actually firing the FO the way like I am playing T4.

For T3~T4, with decent toughness, FO is the best. I use FO in that level too. After T5, FO build is no longer good unless you have some god like gear and 400 paragon points to support it; I am sure eventually we can get there but at least not for my current gear and paragon level.
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06/03/2014 13:05Posted by Saittis
Yea the damage is pretty insane but other thing to consider is proc rate or whatever it's called. It's absolutely terrible I added paragons to LoH (about 550) and barely got any HP back after hitting 10 mobs, if expansion farming requires LoH for healing it may not be so good.


FO LoH coefficient used to be around 0.067
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06/03/2014 14:23Posted by jackel668
FO LoH coefficient used to be around 0.067


Sorry to be a noob. I am insterested in this data. What does it mean and where can I see it?
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06/03/2014 14:27Posted by richnieh
Sorry to be a noob. I am insterested in this data. What does it mean and where can I see it?


I dont know how you can see it, but if a skill has 0.1 proc rate then if you have let's say 1000 LoH each hit of that skill will heal you for 100 health. For example i think that Bash has 1.0 so it will heal you for 1k, but cleave might have like 0.2 so if you hit 1 mob you get 200 life, with 5 mobs you get 1k etc. These coeffciients are probably not true, just an example.

Also if this coeff for FO is really 0.067 then yeah, pretty much terrible. You will get 67 HP if you have 1k LoH, good luck on lvl 70 torment with FO.
Edited by Saittis#2254 on 06/03/2014 14:49 GMT
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I don't understand why FO does damage three times according to your testing the highest achieveable damage is by letting the orb go through the enemies. So how does the end of the explosion make any difference?

Imo it should be everywhere the same damage and only more damage if the orb explodes on top of the enemy.
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