Did Wrathion cause Legion?
Now for those who did any part of the Wrathion questline in MoP before Blizzard removed it for Reasons(tm), he had forseen the Legion invasion, and attempted to manipulate the Alliance and Horde to have one conquer the other, so there would only be one major political power on Azeroth. However, Varian screwed that at the end of the Siege of Orgrimmar, and Wrathion wasn't too happy about it, and ended up storming off in a huff, vowing to do it his way. Turns out 'his way' of doing things was to convince a bronze dragon to take Garrosh to Draenor of the past to make a new Horde to fight the Legion in the present. And Garrosh didn't play ball either, hence the Iron Horde. But if Wrathion had never done this, would we even be seeing a Legion invasion now, or even to this scale? By sending Garrosh to Draenor, that set off a chain of events that lead us to release Gul'dan, who was then used by the Legion to summon them into our world. If Garrosh never went to Draenor, we wouldn't have their Gul'dan being a PITA and spamming Summon Demon. So has Wrathion's attempt to help just made things a helluva lot worse?11
Drabble: Tomb of Sorrows
Upon listening to the Tomb of Sargeras pieces on youtube, I couldn’t help but wonder what was going on from Maiev’s POV. The Tomb of Sargeras holds a severely painful memory for her, but she still delved into it to help Khadgar. Typically, I couldn’t help but write a little something to that effect::: - - “How many of your sisters did you leave to die during your hunt for Illidan?” The words dragged at her insides, slowing her until she stopped at the tomb’s broken threshold. Common tongue couldn’t describe the pain of losing so many she considered family in veritable blink of time. Thousands of years spent living, training and working together, and all from the barrow prison were gone. She had only those from the Vault and the new crop from Darnassus. She knew better now, she knew better than to allow herself such connections. Time after time, all they brought her was a searing grief that ate at her now just as readily as it did each and every time she watched her sisters fall. She would sooner throw herself alone against the Legion than let even one more of her sisters step foot in this terrible place. How many? Their names always came easily, fluttering through her thoughts as she stared into the tomb’s shadowy depths. Hundreds of selfless and dedicated women, and they were wiped out because of one person’s arrogance. Cut down by allies and enemies alike. The first of her sisters died with Kaldorei arrows in their backs. The last of them died with fel fire on their skin. How she had wanted to seethe aloud at that witless whelp of a human. After everything, after losing all of them, she had trusted him with one of her own. She should never have ignored her instincts, but at the time it seemed like a logical decision. Send someone who could quickly get their bearings and track in unknown, difficult terrain. If only... Maiev buried her regret. She could not afford sentiment. The woman she knew was dead, now burned away by the Legion. There would be nothing of ‘Cordana’ to reason with. She pressed into the tomb and let the shadows swaddle her, memories fast rising to the front of her mind. It was hard to push them away in the tomb, so close to their source she could almost taste her own blood again. The hissing of naga and shrieking of demons had filled her ears as she escaped, leaving her Watcher’s behind. Leaving Naisha behind… Maiev ground her teeth, a flare of uncomfortable heat licking at the bottom of her throat. She felt a phantom swell of pain in her flank and tried not to instinctively favour her left. It was the one time doing something for the sake of her duty had given her pause, cutting right to her core with doubt. She may have escaped, but part of her died in this tomb, resting with her fallen sisters. It called to her, tugged at her heart with cold, cloying fingers and treacherous suggestions. There wasn’t really anything stopping her from staying. A slow response here, a sloppy attack there–she would end up where she belonged. Fire raced through her and Maiev clenched tight on her umbra crescent. The few times she had allowed her personal wants to decide her actions for her had led to little more than recklessness and ruin. She was not about to make that mistake here. She would find the insufferable mage and do whatever she could to keep Gul’dan occupied. She would not suffer him disturbing her sisters’ rest with his foul presence.1
The problem with the Warrior Order Hall
Ok before you downrate this post like the masses hear me out. I think the main problem is that the order hall does not represent the class fantasy for warriors at all, considering all the other order halls. So why is the warrior class order hall bad. There are a few reasons and here are my 2 cents on it. First the halls are beautiful, gorgeous even. I won't deny it. But here lies the problem. Warriors are not about beauty and gorgeous stuff. They are hardened veterans who don't care about shinny !@#$. The halls are too clean, too peacefull. There are no brawls in the halls, no mead spilled on the floor, no yelling, just peace. This would be fine for paladins maybe but for warriors no. When I think of warriors I think of the brawlers guild. Now something like that would have been way more in tone with the class fantasy. Fights all the time, cheering, drunk patrons, etc. Or since it's legion after all we could have had a war camp on the frontline, us being the first line of defence against the legion. Or maybe an abandoned castle that we retake and occupy. Second everything in the halls is vyrkul size. Which makes sense considering that it's the vyrkul heaven, but it makes us feel unwelcome and as a total outsider. Maybe grant warriors a buff that increases our size by 2 or something while there? Thirdly the followers. Our followers are the most bland and generic followers that we can get. Let's see what we get. 5 Vyrkul. 4 of them look like generic npcs. Heimdall looks cool an all but has trash mob weapons. Would be nice to get a quest or something to upgrade them maybe? He is a fury warrior with 2 1-h swords, common blizz. Though I do think he is the best out of all followers. The female one is a missed oportunity. Why not name her Sonya to give a nod to heroes of the storm or diablo 3? That would have made soo many people happier. Also getting Ymiron makes no sense. We kill him 3 times and somehow oh we'll definitely trust him! The other 2 look like generic mobs you kill in the world. This could be easily rectified if they just get some better armor strapped onto them. Now the other 3 follwers : A random iron dwarf no one heard of. And 2 titanic creations that we fought in ulduar. Their models look old and out of place. Also how come those 2 , Thorim and the other guy(forgot his name) are our subordinates while we are odyn's little %^-*!, when Thorim, odyn and the 3rd guy are on the same power level as titanic creations. That is just stupid. Again if our base of operations would have been in the real world we could recruit big names as our followers like Nazgrel, Eitrigg, etc. I mean I see every class with a big name follower except us. I mean for @#$%s sake, paladins get a holy dreadlord.... Also they say we are the only mortal that can get there. I call bull^-*! considering that place is a dungeon where we fight odyn. Another way they could have rectified the warrior lack of companions is if we were sent by odyn to recruit the greatest warriors of the land, kinda how like the DK has that quest to get the 4 hoursemen. It's sad the blizz is trying to force this vyrkul fantasy of theirs down our throats like this is every warriors fantasy, esepecially when they got most of the other ones spot on (looking at you dks and pallys). Especially when in earlier builds we had warriors from all over azeroth as followers. I know is too late to fix this it's just that I'm dissapointed. The warrior order hall is just a glorified quest hub, that if it appeared in the game as a quest hub no one would be like, gee this would have been a great warrior class hall compared to that old castle / war camp. I put up with how boring they made prot. I put up with how @#$%ty the artifact is for arms and fury. Will I reroll my main from warrior? Unfortunately no, I put way too much effort and time into this character, both game-wise and RP wise. But I'm sad. This has been my sole main for about 3-4 years now, and I'm sad. I do know I won't play him as much. I will prolly roll a pally. Thank you blizzard for ruining my warrior with your forced fantasy. EDIT: Also you are supposed to be the only mortal to ever be there right? Well seeing other warriors running around that are not vyrkul kinda breaks that lore point (they could have phased it out if they wanted to be strict with the lore), so not having non-vyrkul as followers makes little sense. I mean you are strict there but just there cuz you are lazy to make quests.12
MASSIVE Lore spoilers. Possible ENDING of WoW.
I have been reading the newly released WoW Chronicles and a lot of old theories and this is what I've learned. A LOT of stuff has been retconned, changed or has been build upon. Here goes. So pretty much confirmed: Titans are actually living planets, yes they're birthed by the life force of a planet. So their mission was not to spread order, but LIFE(birth new titans). Kinda like the Xel'Naga from SC II. The Ultimate Evil in WoW universe is the Void Lords from the Void, a separate reality/dimension. Old gods are just mere manifestations of their will. Sort of like mere pets. Take that Old god fans. The Naaru also probably come from another(same?) dimension and are the complete enemies of the Void Lords. Demons did NOT drive Sargeras mad. Void did. Demons are still evil, just not as much. He became fel corrupted and more powerful by shattering Mardum. He also created the Burning legion to fight the Void lords.He started destroying worlds as he deemed them susceptible to the Void. Pantheon did not agree with him. Sargeras solo'd the Pantheon.Take that Sargeras haters. Yes he literally killed all the titans, as they were susceptible to Fel, strangely Fel made him more powerful and did not kill him.He also isn't evil, he's mad. His cause is just, his methods are not. Azeroth is actually a BABY TITAN. Quite possibly Earth Mother/Elune. Making Azeroth a FEMALE Titan. Pillars of Creation are probably whats needed to awaken her. Makes perfect sense as the well of eternity is linked to BOTH Titans and Elune. And one of the pillars even has her name. The Pantheon have foreseen that Azeroth will be strong enough to destroy the Void Lords, the exact same reason Sargeras wants to destroy it. He sees her as the perfect host for the Void Lords. Seeing all the old god corruption on it. Ulduar/Uldum/Uldaman are sort of an immune system for the planet. Well of Eternity is Titan blood, yes their blood is arcane magic. Probably that of the Titan that died in the Old god/Titan war. Azeroth used it to create her children - the night elfs. The end of WoW will probably be Azeroth herself battling Sargeras and/or Void Lords. Mind BLOWN.103
The Legion Transcends all? And retconns.
This still bugs me, so so much. First off: If the Legion is above reality, then that still does not work look at it like this: Our timeline: Sargeras gets corrupted, kills the pantheon and such, eventually gets to Argus, Archimonde and Kil'jaden get recruited. On Alternate Draenor: We get to know that The Legion is above all, BUT look, The ordering of the universe would still be the same, Sargeras gets corrupted I can understand a titan being above all, that's completely understandable, but if we had an alternate Velen, that means there was an alternate Argus, an alternate Kil'jaden, an Alternate Archimonde. What happened to them? Do they just merge with themselves? More problems: Why would the Legion possibly stick to the rules? I can't imagine Sargeras waking up by his cuckoo clock of doom and say 'Oh, look at the time, time to invade another Draenor. No, it wouldn't work. There's simply too many realities and alternate worlds, also why bother destroying worlds if they existed in more than one reality? Now for retconns: Has Blizzard forgotten the events in Stormrage? Maiev is still a murderer, she still tried killing Malfurion.. What about Sylvanas? Did she not go completely berserk after Vereesa 'betrayed' her? Anyway let me know what you think :)12
Every so often i like to speculate on classes of World of warcraft practically about every aspect, in this case, - It seems quite clear that for example death knights and paladins do feel like counterparts to one another mostly due to powers they wield, powers which originate from opposite sources, Light and Dark(Shadow/Void) Now from Warlords and Khadgar's pursuit of Gul'dan, the magic they wield and recent narrative videos made by blizzard regarding tomb of Sargeras and the conflict between both, Mages and Warlocks seem opposite, yet equally powerful. With that being said, my question to you is - >Which class(gameplay or lorewise) would fit as a counterpart for a Demon hunter? similar to how Light is to the Dark., ...a duel that would end with a stalemate. Any speculation is welcome. :P8
The Blizzard spat on the Hordes face
https://justpaste.it/ubfp - This guy sayed the truth. 1. The Blizzard much better loves the Alliance, like the Horde. And it's no problem, but the difference is too big. Varian has dead, it's very sad and tragic thing. But how did he die? Like a hero, like a great king, who fought his people. His death is a big victory for the alliance. Beautiful end and the alliance players be proud. http://imgur.com/a/Fk672 -- I'am not alone. 2. And Vol'jin? A felguard (A SIMPLE FAKIN' FELGUARD) killed him, and he dying on his throne. It's hurt. And okkay, we horde players are very different. We have lot of Sylvanas fans, Garrosh fans, Vol'jin fans etc... Okkay, we do not have to agree, who is the best warchief. But you feel, what is the problem? You feel the spit on your face? We are the Horde. We... orcs, trolls, undeads together. A Horde leader, who fought his people too, a Horde leader, who saved your fraction the disintegration, just dead, and he haven't statue, memorial or anothert thing. A Warchief, who has a very strong and epic story ( check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSkNg-Ewks) just ended, like a weak and fiddling charachter in this Universe. And Varian got a beautiful memorial with a whole park. What do got Vol'jin? Nothing. A WARCHIEF got nothing! PEOPLE OF DA HORDE! THE BLIZZARD SPAT ON YER WARCHIEF! Rhonin, Tirion, Varian and lot of alliance hero has for example statues. Which horde leader have a statue? Or a memorial? (Yes, Sylvanas has a statue in Brill. Whoa..) Vol'jin was a big hero, he saved the Horde, he respected the other racial leaders, he was a genius in the strategy. He was the only troll leader, who stay next to us, all troll tribe is evil, or mad or bloody or primitve idiots. And I'm very sad, cuz the Blizzard didn't get a task him in wod, and killed him in the legion. ( A felguard. its a fakin' joke... A FELGUARD, MON.. FAKIN' TRASH!!!!!). Examine the Horde and the Alliance leaders, and their status: The team in the Alliance: - Tyrande + Malfurion - Alive - Velen - Alive - The gnome king. Melka. Melqua... ah fak. - Alive - Genn - Alive - The pandaren girl. - Alive - The dwarf council - Alive - Varian - dead The team in the Horde: - Thrall - alive, but he is a boring pu*sy, and I hope, he will die. The orcs haven't normal leader, just the old Saurfang and Eirtrigg. - Cairne - dead - Baine - alive - Vol'jin - dead The trolls haven't leader. - Lor'themar - alive - Gallywix - alive - Sylvanas - "alive" - Pandaren guy - alive Alliance high kings: 1. Varian ( He was the first king in the "new" alliance. He was the only "new" alliance king, until now) Classic ---> Legion 2. Anduin - Legion ---> .... Horde warchiefs: 1. Thrall - Classic -----> Cataclysm 2. Garrosh - Cataclysm ---> MOP 3. Vol'jin - Mop -----> Legion. 4. Sylvanas - Legion ----> .... 5. ?????? In the next expansion, after Legion. LOL. The Alliance has ONE king from classic, until now. The Horde has 4 Warchief from classic, until now. Thank ya Blizzard this "fantastic" thing. Who's the next dead? The Horde players always suck a big d***ck. Pathetic... My dear Horde friends. You loved Garrosh? Ok, I understand. You love Sylvanas? Ok, I understand. I don't hate Sylvanas. Maybe you love Thrall? OK! My favorite is Vol'jin. OK! But this is not only Vol'jin's problem. This is the Horde's problem and not the racial's problem. The Horde is humiliated. This is the BIG problem. I love this game. I love this universe. But the creators don't respect me (and you, Horde players). And it's hurt. Very hurt. Blizzard! You killed my favorite. It's a tragedy, but ok, I'm just a player and I can not do anything. But please. Give to Vol'jin a fair memorial and give my tribe a true troll chieftain. This is the all, what I would. Tank ya. And pls. check the other topics: http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613181454?page=1 http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613181454?page=6#post-120 http://vengeance4voljin.tumblr.com/ https://justpaste.it/ubfp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSkNg-Ewks99
How is Sylvanas actually a good Warchief?
Isn't she actually a weakness to the Horde? Remember the Lich King? A creation of the Burning Legion to control the undead? What prevents Kil'jaeden to create another tool to control Sylvanas or the Forsaken? A demonlord of his power level can instantly take over a simple corpse like Sylvanas. Kil'jaeden doesn't even need to be summoned, he only need to make sure such an artefact gets on Azeroth, something like the Helm of Domination of the Lich King. Basically Vol'jin is wrong, and so is his Loa, the leader of the Horde must be a living person, that cannot be mindcontrolled. For that, Baine, Saurfang or even Lor'themar should lead the Horde instead of Sylvanas, no matter how powerful her Forsaken are, she isn't even interested to be the Warchief any way. There was no reason for her to be the Warchief. Not 1 single reason for so far. I hope that the Burning Legion will mind-control Sylvanas, for the sake of lore consistency.116
What if Sylvanas was male?
So have been thinking about this question for some time. Do you think Sylvanas would remain a fan favorite if she was male instead of female? Personally, I think so, though perhaps with a different demographic. After all, she does seem to have most of the traits that makes a male character popular among a certain subset of the female demographic. 1: Dark and tragic backstory, check. 2: Brooding and complex, check 3: "Bad boy", check 4: "I can change him" Most definatly check 5: Extremly lonely, check 6: Has a rival in Greymane, who the female fanbase would turn into a gay pairing, like so often is the case. Kinda starts to remind me of either Loki or Dracula to be honest. So, how does Sylvanas gender change your perception of her? Is there certain things you think just because she is female? What would really change if her gender was reversed?45
Legion Troll Patch?
When Vol'jin died we basically lost the only well-developed Troll character in the game at the moment, and he really got some action in MoP with his meeting with the Zandalari and the Darkspear Rebellion. As most of Vol'jin's character development was done during the Troll patch and Rebellion in MoP, I thought Legion might be a good time for another Troll patch to carry on the Zandalari storyline and hopefully develop a new Troll character. I don't think this would be such a random event either and might actually be quite logical following the storyline. We know that there will be an Old God in Legion and the Trolls were at war with the Aqir for a very long time in the past. Also, Trolls and Night Elves aren't exactly the best of friends so perhaps some event will occur that ties all these things together, allowing some Trolls to shine for a moment and let the Darkspears escape from irrelevance. Furthermore, the Titans will feature quite a lot in Legion, and Trolls being one of the oldest races on Azeroth really should be right in there so we can learn more about their origins as that's not something that's been fully revealed yet. Due to their art style and culture they'd probably stick out like a sore-thumb in such a Night-elf driven expansion but some interesting lore about how exactly these two races are intertwined, could, and in my opinion should be, right around the corner. Please let me know what you think. Although I try to learn about the lore as much as I can, I'm not someone who reads the books or any of the extra lore materials like that so there may be something I've missed that's perhaps blatantly obvious to you guys.9
Having played through the initial stages at ''new Dalaran'', I could not help feeling uneasy at Khadgar's, shall we say, take-over. As soon as Jaina teleports somewhere, he shows little remorse taking her place immediately. A more humble person may have waited for this place to be assigned to him by one of the remaining members of the council of 6. But not so Khadgar. What were his words in the Harbinger trailer. ..."I have thought about becoming a Guardian every day .. even now I desire it" ... and we all know how the trailer ended. But, what if Khadgar has decided to settle for second best, i.e. being the leader of the Kirin Tor? Does that not hint at a truly ambitious man beneath his outer demeanor of selfless service? Furthermore, I find it strange that Cordana Felsong, his ever so devoted body-guard became Gul'dan's pawn. Surely, a mage of his calibre would have spotted changes in her?48
Blizzard forcing their favorites is hurting the Lore
Another topic about the Broken Shore. Because, obviously, there aren't enough already. But this is something that I find too important to not make a specifically dedicated thread for. The force with which Sylvanas was made Warchief is insulting. This is not about Sylvanas hate; even her fans can't possibly be fine with the way they delivered her. This whole story actually starts at the first trailer: We see Sylvanas on her zeppelin, helping Varian on his airship, jumping around, pulling 360 Noscopes like she's getting paid for it. This, in and off itself, is no problem - if you assume that we simply don't see the rest of the action. But it's not that we "don't see" the rest of the action, and instead that there is no action. The other part of the Horde on Sylvanas team was Baine, who was probably on a ship, and as a Tauren he apparently has not deserved more than two lines of text. However, if you think about it: Why split your forces to begin with? Why have Sylvanas and not the Warchief lead the Horde offensive next to Varian? The absence of Lor'themar and Gallywix (who still doesn't even have a unique model) not to mentioned. Moving on. When Vol'jin finally arrives on the Broken shore along with Thrall, he has about as many lines as Thrall. And these lines he uses to banter with other, obviously more important, characters. While Thrall gives meaningful orders, like focus this, destroy that, etc. You know, lead character things. So they eventually meet the true main character, Sylvanas. Oh, Baine is also there, I guess. Starting then, Vol'jin has even less to say. But he still has one or two lines. However, you can pinpoint the very moment he becomes entirely irrelevant, which, by the way, should be the quote that will be his legacy forever more: "All da Horde, get ta Thrall!" This is before you ascend the plattform to fight Krosus. That's the last thing he says before the cinematic in which he dies. But more about that part later. You know what's weird about the part before Krosus? The chasm before the plattform. Yes, yes, I know, there's one for the Alliance too and it forces the players to a halt. But, it doesn't necessarily have to halt them, as the next battle doesn't advance before the other group arrives either way. But what's REALLY weird is the way they solve that problem: Thrall, who is already losing his god-powers, can still reach the elephants in a land that is objectively twisted and corrupted more than anything the Dark Shaman did in Ogrimmar. And he doesn't just reach them, they are still strong enough to form a (in my eyes fairly unnatural) rock bridge. Was there really no ther way to do this? Did it have to be Sylvanas to point out that chasm? Did it have to be Thrall to find a way to cross it? Though in all fairness, given the only two other "heroes" that participated in this life and death assault to save the world, were Baine and Vol'jin. The obstacle would have had to be a different one for them. On the plattform, Tirion dies (with as many lines of text as Baine in the entire scenario), and Varian and Sylvanas have this weird frienemy banter, the troop advances, and the final assault start... ...where Sylvanas gives 100% of the orders. Thrall still has two lines, shouting things to be cool. That's it. Cinematic starts - with Sylvanas, of course, - and Vol'jin get's immediately stabbed in the gut. Back to Sylvanas, who for some reason is the only one who can pull a horse from nowhere, pick up Vol'jin, and then summon five (5) Val'kyr to save a whole five (5) people in a majestetic descend from the sky. It's important that what little screentime the Horde gets is wasted on shots of Sylvanas minions being cool. Of course, we must not forget her being named the Warchief, which is so important it get's a cinematic. No, not the funeral - no one cares about that. Troll rites? Thrall being there? Actual display of grief or loss? Ef that! But what does the cinematic show? Sylvanas face, a lot. Her giving a nice one-liner. An addled and dying Vol'jin who had "a Vision" that this one person he never trusted and which he never thought would be the one to save the Horde, is, in fact, the one the spirits have chosen to save the Horde. ("The spirits have granted me clarity" my a**.) And finally, Sylvanas, alone, in front of Vol'jins funeral pyre, as the Horde cheers for her unanimously. These are all things you have seen yourself. I merely wanted to stress how stupidly blatant Blizzard was disregarding everything else to push their own favorite into the limelight. Vol'jin was the bloody WARCHIEF and he doesn't get to lead his own people into battle or command them. Tell me "It's their game, they can do what they want" all day, but it won't change that whoever is responsible is hurting the game and its story in ways that will shape it's future. It is one thing to have favorites, but another entirely to dedicate the entirety of the story on getting that one character into the center. Literally going over corpses for that end. Honestly, It makes me sad to see how much awesome stuff they can make, the music, the trailer, the world as a whole - only for them to take it into that direction.110
Cool theory on why Vol'jin made Sylvanas Warchief
I mean, the real reason is just fan-service. But i read on Reddit an interesting theory on the reason Vol'jin chose Sylvanas as next Warchief. Vol'jin doesn't trust Sylvanas, because she has used the Plague and her methods are not different from those of the Lich King (use weapon of mass-destructions and raise the fallen). Sylvanas has also plotted and schemed in secret for quite a while (nobody knew of her New Plague). So Vol'jin made Sylvanas Warchief so she can no longer hide and do those things in secrets, because now, being the Warchief of the Horde, all eyes are on her. So the troll made Sylv Warchief exactly because he doesn't trust her, now she can't do !@#$ in secret without getting discovered by the world. Personally, i find it quite a cool theory. Previously, Sylvanas was a secondary leader, and she could do all those bad stuffs in secret, now she is the Warchief and she can no longer hide anything and get away with it. I think now i understand better Vol'jin's decision.27