Rogue

29 Apr 29 Apr 28 Apr 27 Apr 27 Apr 27 Apr 27 Apr 27 Apr 25 Apr 25 Apr 24 Apr 24 Apr 22 Apr 22 Apr
(Legion) Assassination rogue Feedback Greetings Fellow Assassins. First of all I want to point on all players who got alpha since I personally don't own one, and be sure you guys write a decent feedback on alpha forum section, because Assassination is my favorite spec for 8 years now, and I do not want to be screwed again like it is since Cataclysm and especially from MoP which left it as one of the worst and least played spec ingame. All I'll write here, is from what i've seen on twitch and I will try to describe it as accurately as possible. So from what i've seen, Assassination looks like it is on a good way to be a great spec again, but because of pruning it still lacks some utility and control. So, first take a look at new talents: The First Row looks very good, making you to choose what playstyle your prefer: passive, semi-active or active. Master Poisoner - increases your poison dmg by 10% and their non damaging effects by 20% which is good if you want more passive damage and also it should buff poison effects like wound from 25 to 35% healing reduction, 20% leeching poison or 60% more damage from agonizing poison. but the non-damaging effects seems bugged and doesn't work right now on the current alpha build so we don't know how it looks in the end. Elaborate Planning - increases your finishing move damage by 20% for 4 sec. It should works on garrote, rupture and envenom, but on current alpha build its bugged and trigger on envenom only. Anyway in my opinion its a good talent for AoE PvE where you multidotting targets. Hemorrhage - Hemo is remaked version of current hemo in WoD so now it increses bleed damage on target by 30% and also adds 1 combo point. It looks like a way to go for PvP if you'll prefer more active playstyle and more based on bleed damage rather than poisons. The Second Row looks the same as its on live right now which shows that blizz actually didn't use their imagination here. Nightstalker - Same as on live. I Personally never liked this talent, but it can be useful in bgs, or strong opener, but at cost of energy. Subterfuge - same as on live. I dont understand why two spec have the same talents in this row, subterfuge was never good for Assasination, since everything costs much energy, so we're basically starved in opener. The only good thing that subterfuge has, its the control potential and a bug that together with vanish makes you invisible while attacking for 2 sec. In my opinion this talents fits more in the subtlety fantasty. Shadow Focus - same as on live with a little nerf which changes the 75% less energy on opener to 50%. This talent is way to go for assassination, where you have almost full energy and strong opener. The Third Row is where you have to choose between more DPS or DPE. Deeper Strategem - increase your maximum CP by 6 and also increases dmg of your finishers by 20%. I think this talent is good, it will increase both your bleeds and envenom dmg and also makes you to do 7 sec stuns. Anticipation - A nerfed version of current anticipation talent which allows you to store 3 combo points so you won't waste them. I exactly don't know what to think about this talent, maybe it would be useful for some situations in PvE but for PvP there's a better choices. Vigor - Increases your maximum energy by 50 and your energy regen by 10%. Its a good talent for both PvE and PvP, so you'll have to choose what you prefer, if you want more sustained dps or stronger burst finishing moves that DS offers. The Fourth Row is also the same like its on WoD for Sin. What a shame. Leeching Poison - Same as on live, good for Soloing old Raid Content where damage is still high. Elusiveness- This talent is almost same as on live but received a small change which now reduces non-AoE dmg by an additional 30%. Current on live is additional 30% on everything. Cheat Death - Same as on live, good on Heroic and Mythic raiding where mistakes could costs your life. The Fifth Row has a one new talent. Thuggee - Each time you deal bleed damage you have 15% chance to reset cd on Garrote. This talent seems to be the PvE choice for multidotting along with elaborate planning and DS could be strong for AoE. Prey on the Weak - Same as on live. Internal Bleeding - Same as on live. Probably the go to talent for PvP along with PotW. The Sixth Row is very confusing where it comes to PvP. Agonizing Poison - Lethal poison which has 20% chance to increase damage taken from your abilities on target by 10% stacking 5 times and last 12 sec. Well, i don't know what blizz thinks when they made this talent, for me its a horrible design since it will replace your Deadly Poison which is your main dps ability and you'll also lost wound effect coz of Deadly Brew talent. So its also force you to play either Hemorrhage or Elaborate. Anyway this talent doesn't work on current alpha build yet, so it wasn't testet properly. Alacrity - Finishing moves have 20% chance to increase your haste by 1% stacking 25 times. This sounds more for PvE boss tunneling, where you have a lot of uptime on target, but since there is no better choice its the only PvP talent i would choose in this row. If you stack this at 25, it will increase your energy regen by 2,5% which is like 4 energy per second more, which isn't bad. Blood Sweat - Each time you deal bleed dmg you have 30% chance to spread it on nearby targets. Very useful talent for PvE it was about time for something like that. The Last Row has nothing new. Venom Rush - a little nerfed version of the live Rush. It now only increses your energy regen for every poisoned targets by 5% max 3 targets. so up to 15% more regen. Good for AoE fights. Marked for Death - Same as on live. Death From Above - Same as on live, which i hate for its bad design since its still buggy as hell. Now for the Honor PvP talents, i don't want to make a book there so i'll cut it a little and talk about a few talents only. Mind numbing Poison - Deadly poison now also affects target with numbing poison which deals damage when target cast a spell. So i presume this will only work against casters, which isnt look any good for PvP than the old version which reduced the cast time, since it does almost no damage and also replaces Wound poison effect. So this talent need a rework. Shiv - 45 sec cooldown peeling based ability which causes that every ability will oncur a 3 sec. cooldown for the 15 sec duration of neurotoxin. Well, it doesn't seem that bad but the fact that it has long cooldown and replaces Deadly brew, just makes it useless in my eyes aswell as Numbing poison since Deadly Brew is a must have Talent for PvP, unless you want to play with war or monk whom has healing debuff. So in my opinion, Deadly brew should be Baseline so there could be another choice for us. Flying Daggers - Fan of knives deals 25% more damage when it strikes 2 or more targets. Well, i hope this was a joke, because this talent has no place in PvP talents at all. So Replace is needed. Thats all to talents. And now to our baseline Abilities. From now Assa looks pretty same as on live, but without Dispatch becames more boring, The fact that Garrote is a strong dot now and has a cooldown is a good way, but using it as a part of dmg rotation I don't know. Dispatch is ability what makes Assassination rogues feel like more Assassin, which shows their fantasy among other spec, so having this little Execute fits great for this playstyle. Vendetta - Same as on Live which makes me sad, cuz its still one of the worst burst cooldowns and need a rework for sure. It needs to be off GCD and the 30% damage buff should be on rogue instead of target so you should have a choice to switch targets, when they pop defenses or BoP. Hope you guys mention this in Feedback. The fact we lost Blind and gouge, make our spec without control.And the fact the other two got it back, so I would like to see Blind coming back for Sin, coz its a rogue iconic ability. Same with Smoke Bomb. Since Perks are removed I would like to see some more active utility coming back like old Cold Blood with also its old Animation from Vanilla which looks pretty nice and fit Assasin Fantasy. Last thing i want to mention is Preparation. The Shiv is removed, Readiness is removed, Recuperate removed. Our only defensive and defensive/ofensive Abilities left are Evasion and Vanish with 2 min. cd. Since we are very squishy and outside of Feint we can easily be destroyed in one stun, and Since Melees looks like they wouldn't change that much from current state, Also without BoS i don't think we would stand some chance against warriors (overpower back) , Ferals (incarn still 30 sec with rakes) and Dks, Along with True sight Demon Hunters, monks and Hunters. So I would like to see Prep coming back, to reset atleast Vanish and Evasion, cuz it will be needed. Thats all from me, hope you'll read it to the end and take something in mind when it comes to Feedback to Alpha Forums. Thanks. Xáero17
21 Apr 21 Apr 21 Apr 20 Apr 20 Apr
Not sure what is the problem with Blizzard Lifetime rogue here, and Assassination at that. I am a highly cynical yet a loyal Blizzard fan. In terms of engineering and art, Blizzard is still among the finest in the gaming industry, yet their game designers just can't get it right for some reasons that I can't seem to understand. Not sure if it is laziness, direct conflict of vision with player base or good old corporate greed resulting with poor design choices. Yes, I think there is a serious problem with game and I think it is fair for me to assume the subscription numbers is supporting my position. You guys are free to disagree with that, however. I am not the kind of player who spends time to give feedback to developers and suggest ideas. While respecting the community concept and joint effort to make WoW a better game, I personally think its Blizzard's duty to be creative, find fine ideas, execute them well and make the game enjoyable for customers. Recently, I started to find myself trying to come up with ideas for several game systems such as PvP, PvE and regarding Rogue class. Now this very unusual for me and I think it means I neither enjoy the current state of WoW nor I think I will enjoy the upcoming changes with Legion, especially with Assassination spec. I could perhaps, as some of you will suggest, quit WoW and move on. I am willing to give one more chance in WoD, and this time I will be giving feedback. -- Now, the actual point of this post is about what is being sold to us -- Class Fantasy -- and what we are getting as well as the distance between the current state of specs and their state in the Alpha. Class fantasy is such a strong buzzword. Considering how homogenized the classes in WoW at the moment, the natural expectation for us is regaining the core fantasy and unique identity behind each class. Is it going to be achieved with direction Blizzard seem to be taking in Alpha? I simply do not think so. I've been following the alpha builds and the feedback being given in the Assassination thread. For last 3 (or so) builds, there hasn't been any significant changes and previous feedbacks given are simply being ignored. The feedbacks I am talking about are the issues well-known to the Assassination community. I can personally cluster these problems in two groups. The first one is the problems that are carried from the live version. This is mostly about boring and uninteresting talents (overall talent tree, but most importantly lvl 75 or whatever its in Alpha) and clunky gameplay due to poor energy regen. The latest nerfs to energy regen in Alpha will probably lead us to "haste will fix it" sort of situation. This is not something we deserve in an expansion pack trying to sell reworked class specs. The second group is about the lack of synergy between Artifact three and the skills in our non-Artifact arsenal. Things can change, it is Alpha right? Will they? The feedback is being given, things aren't changing in Alpha. They may not have resources to make drastic changes at this point. Another concern of mine is not about the problems as a result of the direction they are taking but the direction itself. I've posted a "toy system" (the second part, starting after "--") in a previous thread. Here is the link for those who are willing to read the suggestion. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17610942094?page=13#255 In essence, I suggest a spec revolving around dynamic usage of poisons. The Assassination spec is all about poisons. In Legion where class fantasy is the focus, they are giving Assassination a brand new poison and making it exclusive to Assassination spec. This, imo, is unofficial statement of "Assassination is about poisons". Didn't they also say Assassination is the "master poisoner"? Where are the poisons then? A spec about poisons, but there isn't any real option in that regard. Worse yet, the spec is not even revolving around poisons. There isn't a synergy between the skills we have and poisons, save for Envenom. This is especially true after the removal of Shiv. The broken link between the fantasy and actual state of the class is crystal clear. Builds are being deployed, yet there isn't any sign to address this obvious problem. The problems due to current state of Assassination in alpha are not being fixed. The problems due to the development direction are not even considered to exist. So we are doomed with a dot spec that doesn't look like an Assassination rogue, a master poisoner? Are you seriously not going to address the class problems in an expansion that you initiated to flesh out class fantasy and address class problems? -- This whole situation seems quite absurd to me. Perhaps I was too stupid to perceive "Class Fantasy" as "Class Fantasy" and not "just remove few skills, changes here and there". This situation is not even limited to Assassination. The changes they made to Subtlety, according to my observation, is being rejected by the community. I wouldn't be shocked if they converge to something very very close to the live version of Subtlety (if it's something distant as of now) at the end of their infamous "iterations". So yes, I firmly believe if they continue what they are doing now, "Class Fantasy" is going to end up being a "classy failure", at least for rogues. If this is due to lazyness (often stated but we all know this is pure bull!@#$) or corporate greed, I am afraid it is hopeless. If it's the difference between vision, I think you are making a mistake. If it's some other concern such as "How are we supposed to balance a highly-altered spec", well, don't. This game could use a bit of cyclical (perfect) imbalance. The thrive for some utopic form of balance devs seem to envision is hurting this game. Thank you for reading my concerns. -- I decided it would be better to c/p the "toy system" that I suggested here. Maybe some people will find it interesting. ... Zephyr5
19 Apr 19 Apr 19 Apr 18 Apr 18 Apr 16 Apr 15 Apr 15 Apr 14 Apr 14 Apr 13 Apr 13 Apr
I don't know if I should laugh or cry So a few days ago, I finally hit level 100 on my Holy Priest, and said, "Okay, I'm gonna get some gear. Time to head to Ashran." It was Saturday, so I had plenty of time. I hung around there for six hours (God, what am I doing with my life) before I figured that I was satisfied and was on the way out. That's when the "Rogue Moment" happened. Long story short, the Alliance had just won the Stadium Race event, so I mounted up and headed back to Stormshield via the Market. Little did I know that the Horde currently held the graveyard, and I got promptly ambushed by a Rogue and a Warrior. So I popped Ascension and floated away like a boss. Sadly, it wasn't enough to get me all the way to Stormshield; I had to touch down on the small bridge just west of Archmage Overwatch. That's when it turned out that the Rogue from earlier had chased me all the way there, Cheap Shotted me and started beating me into the ground. I just stood there and started spamming heals on myself - as a Holy Priest, not much else to do. I got dangerously low sometimes, but I managed to stay alive waaaay longer than either of us probably thought I would - long enough for Rylai to snipe the rogue to death from her tower. I was laughing so hard I was driven to tears. The Rogue made very judicious use of his kicks and cooldowns, interrupting or Silencing my casts whenever he had the chance to, but I still outlived him just by spamming heals on myself. That really shouldn't happen, honestly - aren't we Rogues supposed to be the quintessential caster killers? I really hope this changes in Legion... Myal4
13 Apr 12 Apr 11 Apr 11 Apr 11 Apr 10 Apr
Ranged spec for rogues A common complaint I hear about rogues is that the three spec more or less play the same. With hunters now getting a melee spec, I've thought about the possibility of rogues becoming the second class to get access to ranged weapons. Here is why I think it would be a good idea: - New play-style. - More versatility for the class. - Finally another class that can shoot. Also, I think it would make sense lore-wise. A common 'class' in fantasy games is the thief class, which is essentially what the rogue is, like in Elder Scrolls games - a sneaky thief/assassin who skulks around, back-stabs people and shoots them in the dark. I would suggest the ranged spec be called 'partisan' since partisans tended to be stealthy guerrilla fighters who would ambush their enemies and shoot at them while hidden behind cover. How exactly it would play, I'm not sure. Your ideas are welcome. I think it would basically be a spec that stealths, gets into position, and then relies on high burst damage to ambush its enemy. It could rely on poisoned ammo to apply dots and slowing effect, to keep at range. But it could be VERY squishy and have no self-healing to prevent it being OP. That could make it very vulnerable when exposed from stealth, so I have another idea for it - it can stealth when in combat to hide again if hit by a trap or aoe, however, it can only stealth in combat from a minimum distance from the enemy - too close and you can't stealth. If caught in melee it might have some abilities to attempt to flee. Maybe my idea sucks, let me know if you have a better idea to make this work in a way that is unique to rogues and balanced. The way I see it with hunters having a melee spec rogues could really use a new play-style available to them too, and this is one that would make sense. Kaleis47
09 Apr 08 Apr 08 Apr 08 Apr 08 Apr 07 Apr
Is Subtlety the "stealth" spec in Legion? Spreading awareness about Subtlety's design, creds to Shoegäzer(US) Subtlety is meant to be the most stealth oriented of the 3 rogue specs. Let's see how well this intended fantasy is being achieved. Most of us know by now that Blizzard is removing the shadow dance stance bar in Legion. They have said that the reason they are doing this is that there simply aren't enough stealth buttons to justify having a separate shadow dance bar anymore. Does that seem right to you, that the stealth oriented spec wouldn't have many buttons to actually use from stealth? How many of them are we really losing, anyway? Abilities used from stealth lost in WoD: 1. Tricks of the Trade 2. Shadow Walk Abilities used from stealth lost in Legion: 1. Premeditation 2. Slice and Dice 3. Recuperate 4. Preparation 5. Garrote 6. Shroud of Concealment (glad this one is gone as it was too strong and bad for the game) Abilities used from stealth gained in Legion: 1. Symbol of Death 2. Crimson Vial (I have not confirmed whether or not this breaks stealth when used, but I would guess it doesn't) In fact it comes straight from the horse's (Celestalon's) mouth that the reason we won't have a shadow dance bar is that "there aren't enough abilities used from stealth to justify having one anymore." What are the other problems that cause the Legion subtlety rogue to fail to achieve its intended niche? 1. Mobility, ability to restealth and reset fights, incentive for restealthing With burst of speed gone (a positive change, to be sure), Shadowstep on an increased CD, only a single charge of sprint/vanish, and our mobility now being balanced around Shadowstrike which is a 40 yard teleporting ambush, the ability of this spec to use hit and run tactics to reset a fight and get a restealth is greatly reduced. If you want to Blind a target to restealth, now that is harder to do because the glyph which removes DoTs on Blind application is removed, and our primary snare is tied to our primary rotational DoT. Not only are the capabilities greatly reduced but the incentive to do so is greatly reduced as well. Find Weakness is gone and Master of Subtlety is a talent choice. Symbol of Death, as much as I absolutely despise this mechanic, could provide that incentive, except that it is simply stronger to maximize its uptime by spacing your Shadow Dances. There is a PvP talent which grants 30% faster cooldown recovery from stealth, so that seems to provide an incentive to restealth to get faster Shadow Dance charge regeneration, however the Deepening Shadows passive ensures that this is not the case. Since finishers have a chance to generate charges of Shadow Dances instantly, it is simply stronger to be aggressive all the time, sticking to a target like glue and using as many finishers as possible to generate more Dance charges, than it is to go for a restealth mid fight. 2. Artifact Passives The two artifact passives are particularly bad for stealth based gameplay in PvP. In fact they actively get in the way of doing things that you would normally do. The Akaari's Soul passive is like a mini Shadow Reflection which automatically repeats your opener with a 4 second delay - sounds cool right? I'm sure it sounded cool to the class designers when they came up with it. So what is the problem? Well, for one it causes openers to be far more scripted with less options for changing your rotation in the opener based on the situation. You don't have a choice anymore of following Cheapshot with another Cheapshot or following it with Kidney or using only a single stun or Blinding a target immediately after they trinket your opening stun. You are guaranteed to get a 2nd Cheapshot 4s after the first one, and any of those other choices will lead to problems. If you try to Blind for instance, the Blind is going to be broken by the Akaari's Soul. The loss of Garrote further exacerbates this problem. There are simply less options than ever before in choosing how to open on a target, and any deviation from the new script will lead to problems with broken CCs or problems with DRs. The other artifact passive is Shadow Nova. When you leave stealth, or Shadow Dance, you automatically create an explosion of shadow energy dealing damage to all targets within a radius. Like the other one, this sounds pretty cool right? Ok, try Sapping a target and opening on the teammate without breaking Sap. Try landing a Shadow Dance Sap mid fight without breaking it. And what happens if you are AoEd out of Stealth while sapping a target? Now that Sap is instantly broken. This passive is simple horrible for the game. Tublat6
07 Apr 06 Apr 06 Apr 05 Apr 05 Apr 04 Apr 04 Apr