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Arena and Rated Battlegrounds
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We do feel that it is achievable to a point where players can have fun and feel that a match was fair and they understand why and where in the fight they lost.

There is one very important part missing: I don't only need to know why I lost - but also how I could have won. And that is something thats pretty frustrating right now: Arena is very bursty, which results in very short games often, especially on "medium" rating. Short games = very little chance of learning.
Add the incredible increased amount of CC being thrown around and this gets even worse.

Last but not least: I believe GC once said that if you let a warlock hardcast a Chaos Bolt it is you own fault if you lose. So yeah, I can see why I lost: I let that lock cast a chaos bolt - e.g. because I interupted the Frost Mages Frost Bomb - and get stomped. I know why I lost. I have no idea how to avoid every last Chaos Bolt, especially in an arena like Orgrimmar and especially with the mentioned amount of CC flying around.
06/12/2012 09:34Posted by Jinngo

It was, yes. This was an unfortunate error on my part when rephrasing that particular paragraph. My apologies for any confusion, I have now corrected the mistake.

Just curious mate, what are your expierence in arenas?
While I am not able to give exact numbers or information on my rating and experience, I can say that I have strong knowledge of and experience in PvP — I'll just say that I more than regularly PvP in battlegrounds and arena. :) Right now I am working on getting some gear for my newly dinged Hunter, want to see if I can try and break the mould and do okay with Marksman or Survival.

I know that my PvP skills are not be the best that are out there, but I very closely follow everything that is happening in and around the PvP community such as player concerns and feedback so that it can be passed on to the developers.

06/12/2012 09:34Posted by Jinngo
I love you btw can i be your BFF?

D'awww, thanks! /hug
#1 Warriors are still out of control. The combination between their control and damage is unacceptable. Also the abilty to pop all cooldowns at once (Skull Banner, Recklessness, Avatar, Taste for Blood x 3 etc) needs to be addressed and given attention to. Also it is rather funny how they said the new talents would offer choices for players. While 90% of warriors have the double charge talent, Second Wind, Shockwave and Avatar. Address this fast please. It is demoralizing.

#2 CC in general and the DR issue that comes with it has become out of control and needs to be looked at. You should not be able to lock down a player with different CC abilities that do not share diminishing returns, leaving the player to have no chance in showing if he is skilled or not. PvP trinket cooldown needs to be cut in half to bring it in line with the surplus of CC currently in the game.

#3 Faster balance adjustments should be made. For example it was quite clear that warriors were OP and currently in 3v3 top teams, a vast majority of them have a warrior in it. Major balance adjustments should not arrive when the season has ended, but long before it. Otherwise it is demoralizing for the players and classes not involved in the hope of becoming a gladiator. Extremely demoralizing.

In short: warriors and other classes with a ridiculous combination of control and burst, the expansiveness of CC and necessity of faster balance adjustments.

Thank you.
-Generally there shouldn't be crits higher than 150k dmg in game on lets say resilience player with 60% dmg reduction. Reason behind it is very simple - what happens is that I get heroic strike 250k with 3 stacks of tfb and t2 wep via that famous 1-shot macro. On top of that if suddenly something else comes on me (e.g. fingers of frost icelance crit ~50k) I'll just drop down within 1 - 1.5 second. React defensively in situations like this are close to 0, that's why mostly people complain about getting global'd.
-To add more stuff to that, last night I did some 2s for fun with my mate, (lets not forget I got 65% dmg reduction via resi) hunter opened on me with Blinkstrike and Powershot. Combat log said "Blinkstrike hits you for 96k (critical), and 0.5 second later Power shot hits you for 203k (critical)". So tell me, what do you do in situations like this?
- Conclusion - buff resilience, and nerf healer's mana regen. By buffing resilience ppl will get global'd a lot less, and by nerfing mana regen on healers you won't have QQ threads "omg healers are immortal".
To be honest crits higher than lets say 150k+ are OK, but if your class doesn't have loads of short cd CC's that allow to lock the enemy for long periods. Have sick tons of damage, but don't stun the enemy every 10sec so that they can counter this damage with their own "skill" not by pushing all the keybinds, hoping to survive being cc'ed forever.

The same thing has been mentioned here many times - too many skills.
Why take away mobility and bits of CC on DK and add more dmg? It was already really high
Why have so many cd's on warr? - popping them all at once leads to already well-known results
Paladins - pathetic dmg outside of cd's, which would be ok, if it wouldn't be so easy to avoid. You see massive 4-winged guy sprinting at you. Hah. cc-lock him for 30sec.
Typhoon for any druid? - great, eots is becoming unplayable.
Rogues - atm, they are just... pathetic. Instead of adding new somewhat unnecessary abilities tweak the ones they already have.
Mages I won't even comment on, I used to be somewhat able to 1v1, 2v2 them in Cata, atm I just gave up.
Hunters - Oh wow, I can't get to them. They kill me within 5-10sec, if they don't that means I'm cc-locked for 30sec.
Monk - was it really necessary? Ok, it fits with pandas, just as dk's with Lich King did, but when I played on mist monk I felt like I played holy-pala, disc, resto drood at once. It doesn't feel right.

Fix insane dmg by cutting few offensive cd's. Don't just add more defensive cds...
Fix CC. Getting stunned, silenced, interrupted, trapped, disoriented, blinded, stunned, silenced........... every 2 seconds for 5 seconds each is not fun. CC was going to be about players' skill, timing and usage in the right moment, not about spamming it whenever it's off CD, at least I think it should.
Do something about healing and self-healing. Adding yet another "15% debuff to healing received" will not fix all the issues. Cutting all healing down won't do that either. What's the point of having a healer, when a hybrid class can do about 80% of what healer does? Cut down some self healing abilities, make it about good timing. And make actual healers less immortal.
06/12/2012 15:34Posted by Søuldrinkah
- Conclusion - buff resilience, and nerf healer's mana regen. By buffing resilience ppl will get global'd a lot less, and by nerfing mana regen on healers you won't have QQ threads "omg healers are immortal".

buffing resilience directly would not help the whole game but giving crit limit on a player is a must in this cd stacking game and on arenas and maybe rbgs, each minute or so healers mana regen should slow down or all healing abilities' mana cost should slowly increase.Cause reducing the healers mana regen will cause more problems in pve.Also all hybrid and pure dps class that have somewhat healing abilities should be transfered to percantage healing (for ex. shadow priests flash healing will heal %12-15 of the targets health and will not crit to %24-30) and just give dps' a debuff when you use a heal to yourself or someone else, that lowers the next heals incoming by %30-40 for 5-6 seconds to stop this heal spamming).

Also giving all heals a percantage method, the useless pvp power healing nerf will no longer hurts hybrid dps classes such as boomkin,elemental,enhancement,retribution.

I think all adjustments should be in arenas and rbgs mainly to stay balanced in pve most of the time while changing something.

Finally, why all classes can slow anyone by 50%?And why does slowing effects have the more power even if i have lets say +70% movement speed?Cause 70%-50% is clearly 20% and i should have 120% movement speed at that time.This causes so many problems to my playstyle.Like when a shaman is in ghostform with 130% speed and gets slowed by 50%,why he starts to go in 50% or 66% speed but not 70% speed?
Maybe only direct damage from mages should shatter and bomb spells could be considered DOT effects, so they wouldn't shatter at all? This would nerf mage AOE and solo play somewhat, but wouldn't have much of an effect on boss encounters.

Just like Nakatoir is trying something different with his hunter, I'm doing something different with my mage and opting to take Nether Tempest for PvP. I don't think I've seen anyone else try that. Some fire mages go for Living Bomb, but most mages currently spec Frost Bomb just to get that "one-shot" combo in Deep Freeze.

Doing some battlegrounds today in full PvP gear (item level 476 average), I felt very, very vulnerable when going against a lot of classes. It feels like damage went up quite a bit with patch 5.1 and my shield got noticeably weaker.
06/12/2012 10:46Posted by Nakatoir
Right now I am working on getting some gear for my newly dinged Hunte

brb rolling hunter
Posted by Zakkar
So, #1, MMR is still not reset.

Ghostcrawler already mentioned on his Twitter account back when this was a major topic of discussion that resetting the MMR of players creates a large sum of unbalanced matches until the ratings return to their original values. So the resetting of MMR actually creates a few weeks of pain with very little gain, given that most players will end up at approximately the same MMR that they were before the reset. You can see his tweet about this, here:

Well it's about keeping you're custumers happy, so do as they please. Client is King. Basic knowledge which you people fail to grasp. I don't care what arguments you have for not resetting MMR.

05/12/2012 09:47Posted by Zakkar
On to #2, they did fix BM hunters, but they didn't fix warriors, AND, as it turned out, the list was missing warlocks, who can one-shot people as well, and maybe mages

We made changes to the Warrior class by lowering the maximum stacks of Taste for Blood to three in PvP. We also recently hotfixed Demonology Warlocks, lowering the demonic fury cost and damage of Chaos Wave by 33%. Mages also received several changes in patch 5.1, they are too numerous to mention here so I recommend checking the patch notes out:

Oh I see, you think you did what you had to do ? and nothing less ?

Posted by Zakkar
AND they gave everyone more PVP power without giving more PVP resilience making one-shots significantly more often than before.

We are also keeping an eye on the increase in damage that occurred due to heightened PvP power. It is possible that we will up base resilience or do something similar to compensate for this change, but we feel that more time is required to observe the effects of this change in order to make a decision on the matter.

"it is possible ?" ........ " IT IS POSSIBLE ? "

I have no words for this

05/12/2012 09:47Posted by Zakkar
Nice progress... Can anyone honestly say that PVP got better since the beginning of the season? Because I don't.

We know that PvP will never be a perfect picture of balance where both teams in every match up will walk into the arena, or even a rated battleground with a 50% chance of winning or losing. We do feel that it is achievable to a point where players can have fun and feel that a match was fair and they understand why and where in the fight they lost. We are not blinded by rose-tinted glasses mind you, we know that we are not at this point yet in Mists of Pandaria and there is still some work to go until we reach that level of balance.

It's all good, we'll wait another half a year before we can play this game again ; ) it's all good. Don't worry.

I can see how easily we can drop someone inside a freeze, but this is only 1v1. The increase in detonation time to frost bomb gives healers more chance to cleanse it off, and the decrease in DF duration means no extra ice lance.

Mages have high burst, but in arena situation with 2 dps on us we can't use it. We are squishy clothies, this has always been the case. In real PvP we have to work to be able to use that burst, I dont run in the open free casting frostbombs that instantly explode.

The reduction in resilience has boosted my over all damage. Ice lance crits are doing more damage as is my frost bomb. Maybe some altering in the "Shatter" passive could change the amount of crits mages get. If however we are expected to be more about sustained damage over burst, then I expect shorter cast times on spells and more armour, because a clothy cant last in a prolonged fight against DKs and Warriors.
Just decrease all critical's by 25% (damage and heal)... oh and remove/redesign ALL abilities that deal's prosentual or whatever it is... :p (%) damage/heal...

For all insta CC abilities should have a spam penalty, for example first cast is instant, second within say 5 sec from first one increases (insert random debuff) for an example mana cost/cast time or whatever... just my thoughts...

271k dmg taken in a shockwave which I had to trinket, but i died before i could even use any defensive CDs. What a great game(JK). And he didnt even pop skullbanner -.-
As i said in my post, warriors has to much abilities that are dealing 40-80k dmg or more.
Combined with some of the stuns there is such a low chance to survive.
The same concerns to mages and hunters atm. I think, other DPS-classes are balanced in pvp.
Blizzard has to do sth...

@Nightwink - Kazzak: Take a look at this link (
@ Kazuya is just a pathetic way from Soku to get what he wants.
He's a monk either go mistweaver since that the only monk spec that works in arena atm. when he's stunned he phases out of existence causing all attacks to miss him for 2 seconds, so if he gets stunned from shockwave he has atleast 2 second to push trinket or not push it at all since shockwave is only a 4 sec stun. ( so .... al mistweaver monks get 50% resistince to our number 1 spell...... nice bliz ;) )

Or if he wants to play different spec let him gem resilience. Soku u ain't using even 1 resi gem in all your gear also u are not using resi enchant on chest. Start changing stuff like that and u will see u will get more survivability against all classes and start winning more.
I played Kitty cleave last season ( the season when warrior was so !@#$ed up ) and i always got targetted first and had troubles surviving. Gemmed full resi and tada fixed like 70% of the problem. So please look at yourself before pointing a finger to other classes that fast.

Apart from that the warrior used his 5 min cd's it's only up for 12 seconds just cc him or kite him in his deadzone.
#3 Too much control on classes who do not need it.

10/10/2012 11:04Posted by Nishea

You know mages have no defensives but for dispellable/50k absorbing shields and block? The reason mages survive is BECAUSE of the controll they have.

Learn the game (with that meaning mages) plz.
@Ghostcrawler I hope you arent planning on leaving war/mage nerfs till 5.2 after hotfixing demo... would be incredibly annoying :/

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
.@Rick97950219 We are concerned that trinket nerfs were not sufficient in curbing mage and warrior burst. Discussing options.

@Ghostcrawler I hope you arent planning on leaving war/mage nerfs till 5.2 after hotfixing demo... would be incredibly annoying :/

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
.@Rick97950219 We are concerned that trinket nerfs were not sufficient in curbing mage and warrior burst. Discussing options.


Good news for once, hell yes. :D
06/12/2012 10:46Posted by Nakatoir
While I am not able to give exact numbers or information on my rating and experience,

Let's say like this.

Over 2.4?
07/12/2012 00:18Posted by Soku

Hey look I took similar numbers and I've got plate(which matters according to these forums)!!!!!!1!

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