Windwalker: Dual-wield vs. 2-Hand

Monk
There's been literally SOME discussion between the lv90 Monks in my guild (which for the moment stands at me and one other) about which is better for Windwalker DPS.

I'm no good at the math for this sort of thing, but wondering what other people think is better for it?

Have had a look through several guides, but most of them seem to have been written in Beta/PTR and don't wanna take their word in case the info is outdated.

[Way of the Monk] Passive:

2h weapons allow for 40% increased melee attack speed
DW weapons allow for 40% increased autoattack damage

[Tiger Strikes] Passive:

8% chance to gain 'Tiger Strikes' when you autoattack, increasing your attack speed by 50% and causing your autoattacks to cause an extra attack (assuming lasts until 4 extra autoattacks)
They are designed to be basically similiar, although currently my own observations is that:

DW: Slightly more tiger strikes, two enchants.
2h: More stats (I guess enchant offset), haste gets more valuable for autoattack since it scales multiplicatively with the 2h passive.

Hope that helps :)

I don't have any comparison numbers to check if they actually did land the mechanics to make them do equal white/special damage standalone, but that was the aim during beta. It's why weapon speed matters very little on the weapon as well, but at a glance they seem about equal. We just need more logs and stuff to confirm :)
I'd go for DW, altho I don't have the weapons for it atm.
Auto attacks are not a big proportion of a monk's DPS, so either way, the damage will remain around equal. The main damage comes from abilities the only real difference would be
1. amount of weapon buffs.
2. weapon buff procs (not tested)
3. Lower base damager, higher potential damage on abilities with DW than 2 handers which have a more comfortable, narrower zone of damage.
Auto attacks are not a big proportion of a monk's DPS, so either way, the damage will remain around equal. The main damage comes from abilities the only real difference would be
1. amount of weapon buffs.
2. weapon buff procs (not tested)
3. Lower base damager, higher potential damage on abilities with DW than 2 handers which have a more comfortable, narrower zone of damage.


Erm, what?

Auto attacks are pretty much on the same level with BOK in total damage, RSK usually following close behind.

You might want to check www.worldoflogs.com before stating something so false like that.
2h gives nice 20% speed increase but while DW you get 20% damage. So it depends what style you like to play better
One of the major differences are that the dual wield have a way higher hit % needed for their white attacks compare to the two hander.
09/10/2012 17:56Posted by Leesiin
Auto attacks are not a big proportion of a monk's DPS

That is blatently not true. Melee hits constitute between 20-25% percent of a Monk's DPS, according to World of Logs.

Regarding the original question: the consensus on ElitistJerks appears to be that Dual Wielding is slightly ahead of 2H. In practice you should just use whichever weapon has the highest item level, because that weapon will have the highest DPS. If you have the choice, choose Dual Wielding.
Regardless, if you sim it in T14 DW comes out on top by 1.5% I have done many tests and 2H wins by about 1.5%
So haste is slightly more beneficial to 2H than DW?

Honestly can't wait to see some logs of Monk damage* :)

*(when I figure out how the hell to navigate worldoflogs >.<)
I don't know man..

I tried 2h.. and I never made it above 45k dps.. now that I got 2 epic fists, I roll about 68k-75k dps on average.. but epics are epics..

AND I don't give a damn about haste - I found out that with our limited stats on gear, mastery is actually quite better until you are GCD capped.. and since there is nowhere near enough haste to make energy regen that high, getting Combo Breaker procs actually make me more occupied than waiting for energy to use Jab again and again.. Though this will change as soon as blizzard gives us more secondary stats on gear.
Technically, tiger strikes should provide an equal benefit to 2H and DW - even though they proc less often, the 4 attacks they buff each do more damage than DW attacks. Ability damages are absolutely identical, because DW factor is applied that evens them out.
Thing is, dual wield auto attack always was more powerful than 2H, simply because attack power scaling is higher - AP/14 is applied to both weapons, so total final AP contribution is AP*1.5/14. 19% miss penalty partially compensates for that, but its not nearly enough. On the other hand, base weapon damage ends up being a lower factor with DW.

2h: More stats (I guess enchant offset), haste gets more valuable for autoattack since it scales multiplicatively with the 2h passive.

That doesn't affect the value of haste in the slightest. Damage bonus is also multiplicative with haste, you know.

AND I don't give a damn about haste - I found out that with our limited stats on gear, mastery is actually quite better until you are GCD capped.. and since there is nowhere near enough haste to make energy regen that high, getting Combo Breaker procs actually make me more occupied than waiting for energy to use Jab again and again.. Though this will change as soon as blizzard gives us more secondary stats on gear.

Mastery is way worse than haste in any gear, just fyi.
In my experience, abilities for both WW and BM scale better with 2 handers
Auto attack damage is roughly equal.

Abilities have a narrower damage scale on 2 handers, the scale is wider for some damage abilities with dual wield, but the risk of going lower for a risk of slightly higher I don't feel it's worth it.

The main one I find is Guard, the amount shielded drops quite a bit when I switch to DW.
Ability wise, I'd say 2 handers are better, but DW should make up for it as WW in some way, probably with the more ench procs/dps with melee alone providing enough hit.
www.noxxic.com shows that in high rated raiding would be following.

Dual Wield Windwalkers = 97k
Two Handed Windwalkers = 92k

By that it shows that Dual Wielding do have a minor advantage in PVE likely because of additional enchant but in the end they're equal enough for you to be able to decide which type to choose.
Well i've very little experience with WW, as i leveled 10-90 and at 90 as a healer. But hey, what can you do when no healer gear drops from heroics... :-/

I got 2x Siege-Captain's Scimitar and Firestorm Greatstaff. And i've not noticed much difference between the two, when it comes to the actual damage numbers. Don't know if it's an illusion, but it feels like i'm able to use my abilitys more often while DW (or at least i'm on global cooldown more often, which might cause the illusion)

Mind you, i've only used 2h for 1 heroic. And too lazy to do dummy testing with recount :P

edit: don't mind my reforges, i've reforged my gear to be ready when i get 463 trinket to replace the engineer made one. So i'm little over expertise/hit cap atm. :)
I love 2-H damage and been Dual-Wielding for sometime now. Its good to hear that it does not matter much after all. I guess the choice does matter as a life-death situation only if you are a member of hardcore raiding group or a total dps freak.
Yeah got to admit it's kinda nice that they managed to balance (to within a few %) two different fight styles - would be amazing if they could do the same for DKs as well tbh.

Hell in all honesty I only made a Monk 'cause of the kung fu, and I can go round with a spear or staff like a Dynasty Warriors character :)
tand for pvp guys what do you say? 2W or 2h? cuse when i brought pvp 1h wepons my miss chance get to 18% in autoatacks and theres no way to gtet taht to 0 with pvp gear even with all gear reforged for hit so maybe 2h for pvp btter ?
21/11/2012 18:58Posted by Viciadoo
and for pvp guys what do you say? 2W or 2h?


DW will make your special attacks (The ones you really care about) hit harder.

2h will make your special attacks hit for more consistent damage (DW has a higher max and lower minimum damage)
both output near the same DPS so at the moment it is more personal preference more stats or double enchants?

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