Q & A With David Kim

Q & A With David Kim

At the recent G-Star event in Korea, we had an opportunity to talk to some of the GSL’s top competitors and get their feedback on the current state of StarCraft II. This was also a good opportunity to show our players around the world how pro player feedback influences the act of balancing StarCraft II.

While we’ve made a number of balance tweaks over time, at this point the overall game balance is quite solid. There are always variations from region to region, so we rarely make a balance decision based on the numbers from a single region, or even a single tournament or tournament series. While we’re likely to see more changes in the future, we’re going to remain cautious when making even small changes, since they can have sweeping (and sometimes surprising) effects on overall balance. The purpose of this feature is to highlight some of the feedback we received from pro players, and to discuss our perspectives based on that feedback.

MULE — Too effective when used on high yield mineral patches.

Concerns about the MULE are something that we hear most frequently from the player community at large, but it’s also feedback that we’ve seen from some pro players specifically with regard to high yield mineral patches. In fact, the GSL recently removed high yield patches from its maps in response to this concern. This change seems to have worked out well for the GSL so far, but all the other major tournaments that didn’t remove high yield resources from their maps are still showing very good race representation, so the change doesn’t appear necessary.

There are a lot of potential reasons this could be, but we’ll examine a couple of the most likely. First is that the change really did reduce terran effectiveness in the GSL specifically, but because the terran race does unusually well in Korea, it all balanced out. Another possible reason could be that there is an advantage to terran players from using MULEs on high yields, but it’s not significant enough for the removal of high yield resources to result in a noticeable effect on overall performance.

Regardless, we don’t jump to conclusions and we’re still investigating. If further research suggests conclusively that MULEs do offer too much of an advantage to terran players when used on high yield minerals, we’ll consider an appropriate course of action then.

Spawn Larvae — This requires too much management; even pro players are unable to manage Spawn Larvae perfectly.

Our stance on this kind of issue is simple: We intentionally make different aspects of the game difficult for the different races. We want each of them to have asymmetric advantages and disadvantages that contribute to very different play styles, but still result in a satisfying, balanced game at the end of the day. Spawn Larvae is more difficult to manage than Chrono Boost or MULEs, but zerg has other advantages — for example, unit production is relatively easy to manage for zerg compared with the other races. Making side-by-side comparisons of isolated elements won’t show you the whole picture because StarCraft II is asymmetrically balanced, meaning that if a race is strong in one way, then it’s probably also weak where another race is strong.

We also like to see this kind of feedback, because making games easy to learn but difficult to master is one of Blizzard’s core game design philosophies. So, we don’t see it as a problem that, even at the pro level, perfect mastery hasn’t been achieved yet.

Reapers — Give Reapers back the early-game speed upgrade.

We tend to agree that Reapers can stand to see some improvement. We like the unit, but the problem previously was that Reapers with Nitro Packs were too effective versus zerg in the early game. Unfortunately, after losing their role in early-game harassment, Reapers haven’t proven to be a very powerful or useful unit at most stages of the game.

As we discussed at BlizzCon, we’re taking a hard look at the Reaper, and we’re experimenting with different options to see where Reapers can fit into the terran arsenal with Heart of the Swarm.

Terran — Stop nerfing us!

There will always be changes as we develop StarCraft II, and we try to minimize nerfs as much as possible. We don’t like making changes unless they’re necessary. Still, we will continue to make small adjustments that we feel need to be made to achieve the best balance possible, and we don’t keep score regarding who is getting the most or the fewest changes. Ultimately, we’re invested in the success of all three races, and we want to make all three perform well.

EMP — Radius decrease is too significant.

We feel that the dynamic between protoss and terran especially was in need of a change, and this was an efficient method of achieving that. We’re still paying close attention to how the change to EMP affects this matchup globally, as well as on the tournament stage.

Choke Points — More variance in choke point placement on maps.

We love variety, but maps play a significant role in how balance is achieved, and with that in mind, we need to maintain a certain amount of consistency in map features. For example, all of our 1v1 maps feature relatively close natural expansions, while our 2v2 maps lean toward starting teammates relatively close together.

Ramps into starting positions are another feature which we try to keep pretty consistent. Certain ramp structures, such as particularly wide ramps, would favor fairly specific builds, which is why the ramps leading from starting positions are all alike. We still want diversity in the map pool though, so the ramps leading into natural expansions display more variety, since we see a greater diversity of strategies even when those ramps differ from the norm. This way, an essential terrain feature becomes more interesting.

We also look for other ways to make maps interesting and unique, though it’s difficult to do that without potentially hurting a map’s tournament potential. Typically, tournament map creation is subject to a lot of restrictions, which is also why so many tournament maps share features with one another.

Khaydarin Amulet — Bring it back!

We wanted to change the dynamic between the protoss and other races, and we like to make small changes to do that. Unfortunately, when the Khaydarin Amulet was still available, we would see players do things like spread pylons everywhere simply to gain the ability to warp in High Templars and storm passing armies. Also, because High Templars were often warped in to cast an immediate storm, there wasn’t a lot of decision making about which ability would be used — in the vast majority of cases, it would be one cast of Psi Storm, which would deplete all available energy. Also, positioning wasn’t a consideration in too many cases, since the unit would appear, cast storm, and then effectively be forgotten for that battle.

We like the way the High Templar work now, because, while they remain very powerful, some thought and consideration must go into how they’re positioned and which spells are used.

For Heart of the Swarm, we’re exploring better ways to handle energy upgrades, since we’re not quite satisfied with how they work currently.

Void Ray — Damage output is difficult to read in-game.

We like the visuals in StarCraft II to have clear meaning, and this is good feedback. We'll take a closer look at how the graphic communicates damage output to players at various skill levels. If it does turn out to be unclear, we’ll find ways to improve it.

Protoss Play Style — More variety please!

This was another issue that came up at BlizzCon. We’re definitely looking at ways to give protoss players more tactical options and more strategic paths. We’ll probably achieve this via new units which will be added in Heart of the Swarm.

We do have good reasons for delaying a large change like this for the expansion. Not to be taken lightly is the fact that balance is actually quite good right now, and major play style changes can have a disruptive effect on balance. Also, patches are intended to fix issues in a small, incremental way, not to introduce entirely new playing experiences and sweeping changes to gameplay. That kind of change is much better left for an expansion, where new units and dramatic shifts in strategy are expected and welcomed.

In short, we do want to give protoss players a better variety of strategic options. We’ve learned a lot from Wings of Liberty, and we’re hoping to achieve an even better and more varied competitive environment overall. In Heart of the Swarm, we expect to see the strategic options available to all three races grow.

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Comments (115)

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EaRtHqUaKe #984
EaRtHqUaKe
15/02/2012
it whould be fair to give the templar the ghost range for snipe therefore it whould be a fair duel who ever shots first wins ,who ever is positioned better wins therefore it whould be a equal fight between the templar and the ghost i thought of this because theyr the top units that influence the winner in pvt ,right now ghost own tosss if they are used by good terran players ,don t nerf the emp !! just give the equal range for templar and ghost ,the only problem whould be how to balance the infestor but you could make the range for the templar equal to the ghost only available in pvt matches more like the change in the pacth where the ghost has 25+25 psionic you could do the same with toss templar,oh and one more thing ,PLEASE DO SOMETHING TO THE MULES theyr annoying !@# hell terran allin all the time it s boring and linear ,the 4 gate was nerfed ,but i see terran allins are not!please take into conbseideration this note ,best regards
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SharkZ #133
SharkZ
13/02/2012
After watching the last GSL matches and some MLG KR qualifiers I really need to rage post !!! So is that what we want from the ZvP matchup ???! The only thing that zerg is able to do againts mass Forcefields/gateway mid-game pushes is a TON of spines ?!? ... Really ? srsly ?
Is that the way we want all the ZvP's to be played because since the best progamers decided that is that way to "deal" with Forcefields then something seems wrong here for me ...

( I needed to edit some typos and what not but since I didnt see edit option i posted twice - sorry for that)
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EaRtHqUaKe #984
EaRtHqUaKe
19/02/2012
@SharkZ: chill get out
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SharkZ #133
SharkZ
13/02/2012
After watching the last GSL matches and some MLG KR qualifiers I really need to rage post !!! So is that what we want from the ZvP matchup ???! The only thing that zerg is able to do againts mass Forcefields/gateway units is a TON of spines ?!? ... Really ? srsly ?
Is that the way we want all the ZvP's to be played because since the best progamers decided that is that way to "deal" with Forcefields the something seems wrong here for me ...
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Ozzy #960
Ozzy
12/02/2012
25 +25 Psionic ? Ghost must be biggest counter on protoss race? For 100 gas and no tech (yes! GhostAcademy 50gas is not tech!) and no upgrades: snipe, critical EMP, Nuke, CLoak and greater than (expensdive) HT speed and have normal weapon damage. Real ghost price is 200/200 and EMP upgrade in GA also 200/200
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A small idea I had on the Spawn Larva topic is to maybe add a channeling spell for the Queen, allowing the player to spend his APM and thoughts elsewhere.
Ofc, this spell should cost more - and be less effective - then the actual spawn larva spell.
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AXLiTTleOne #657
AXLiTTleOne
11/02/2012
I hate to say it again look at this http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
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Arnonator #127
Arnonator
13/02/2012
@AXLiTTleOne:
the graph's are misleading
they start at 40% and stop at 60%
an what exactly did u want to prove with this spam post?
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AXLiTTleOne #657
AXLiTTleOne
11/02/2012
http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
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AXLiTTleOne #657
AXLiTTleOne
11/02/2012
http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
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AXLiTTleOne #657
AXLiTTleOne
11/02/2012
Dear David have you ever thought of nerfing zerg. I bet not. SO do it
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sGǂHamiltoN #372
sGǂHamiltoN
11/02/2012
Dear David, why don't you just remove terran? I can definatly see that you don't want us to play it anymore, nerfing terran patch after parch will just decrease the number of terran players and destroy the fun of the game.
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spud #885
spud
05/02/2012
The truth is in the late game when the bank comes to play, even if u hurt my economy as a terran i can maintain same income level for 90 secs with mules, and wont even have to waste the resources saved up, givin me extra waves of units. Toss looses chrono and therefore army when tryin to remacro probe count. Zerg looses larva and therefore army when tryin to remacro drones and I loose ... SCANS. How fair is that?! SIMPLE SOLUTION that sure has to be tweeked but is pretty much the only way (and waAAy better than just sayin "chill its balanced") MAKE MULES TAKE UP SUPPLY SO TERRANS HAVE TO SACRIFICE SOMETHING FOR THAT FAT INCOME JUST LIKE THE OTHER RACES!
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Wink #889
Wink
13/02/2012
@spud: Funny how, your profile says that you are a zerg player and not a terran... :P haha
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UnrealOne #361
UnrealOne
04/02/2012
To the person who is totally out of his league in the SC2 scene AKA the mighty but totally unuseful ( not an insult, a fact shown by stats) because clearly he didnt brought anything to the game(fact showed by stats) : DAVID KIM ....... acording to him game is ballanced : http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS ......... this last month probably terrans went on holidays, but the situation will come to normal soon, to say from a leaving classic : ,,as it should be".
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Arnonator #127
Arnonator
13/02/2012
@UnrealOne:
the graph's are misleading
they start at 40% and stop at 60%
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zanyhow #383
zanyhow
01/02/2012
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about current balance and forthcoming Heart of the Swarm with us, David! Please, keep up the good work on WoL and HotS!
I love the fact that Blizzard keeps us up to date about thought process on Starcraft II. It's always interesting to get some new info. Thanks! =)
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Santonix #352
Santonix
31/01/2012
Suggestions to improve this nice game:
- It is too easy to rush at start of game. The home base should have some defense. The patrol attack should be improved for probes. Or there should be a mode no rush 5 min to choose.
- After a long time playing many multiplayer games, it becomes to be always the same. There should be more game options with more variety and possible strategies.
- Making only one type of unit makes it too easy to win compared to making a strategy. The upgrade system is flawed because it encourages making one type of unit. For a fun strategy game, complex strategy should win over the brutal front attack. The mechanism mass resources and mass production of one unit is too stupid to make a fun strategy. You should expore more complexity: nice events (number of killings, nice nuke, drop, etc) giving special points, traps, timed bombs, spells on units, massive hallucinations as diversions, advanced buildings producing resources would be excellent to encourage advanced developments, causing influence on enemy units (for example a research or upgrade that limits the enemy's tanks hence forcing him to change strategy if we was massing tanks), etc.
- The situation to start loosing is too quick and irreversible. When the enemy attacks with a special sort of unit (mass voids), we should have more time to react. We should also have more possibility to scout the enemy. In warcraft 2, the ogres had scouting eyes and paladins a vision. That was cool to see what the other is doing, instead of playing in isolation and having a few minutes battle that decide of the winner.
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heXinG #818
heXinG
13/02/2012
@Santonix: erm.... bad troll is bad
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Arnonator #127
Arnonator
13/02/2012
@Santonix: lol
If u don't want a rush, then go and play Age of Empires or something... There the workers have resistance to everything!
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Thurgudd #478
Thurgudd
27/01/2012
If you think so write "long life for the queen" at the end of your post and tell the people to write it please.

Lets see if blizzard change Zerg and we stop facing/building mass 3/3 muta-ling as the the only Zerg´s option. And again sorry for my bad english.
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Thurgudd #478
Thurgudd
27/01/2012
another way maybe to auto-bury the queen when attacked once you have researched bury
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Thurgudd #478
Thurgudd
27/01/2012
I think zerg need a buff in the late game. The only option right now is to crush them with the frist big army or go mass muta. I will explain myself:

When terran or toss get harrassed they dont loose the biggest part of their production facilities. Also there is the fact that when you kill the hatchery all the sturctures arround will die at least you build a hatchery automatically or had overlord speed because there is no queen arroundto set a tumour: So as zerg the only safe place to build the productions facilities (because expos die so quick and you cannot allow to loose all the structures if they snipe the hatch) is the main base. For me as protoss or terran my goal then is to drop/sneak in their main at whatever cost and snipe their main hatch, queen and important building. My point is that is too easy to send zerg to the stone age and kill his production capacity and i think that is not balanced with the fact that a hatch cost 100 less mineral than a nexus and they can mass produce drones at once, because when you have 2 bases as toss o terran the probe/scv production is way more than the needed. This point make the zerg much more strong in the early/mid game (and early mid game is balanced) but makes it sooooo weak in the late game. The thing is not that ultralisks or broodlords are bad units, the thing is that you cant allow to loose a single ultra or broodlord (while you can loose the colossis or the thors and win rebuilding) because you are going to be harassed with such a slow army and once you have been harrassed in your main you are not going to be able to rebuild. As zerg the only option then is to sit near of my main and loose all my bases and loose the late game almost always when i dont crush him with the first big army.

My idea to buff Zeg´s late game is anyway to keep the queens alive, more armor even sacrificyng Dps, or an option to be passive and run like the goshts (the bury hability is not effective when the queen is running to get into their army range and she one shoot dies) Nowadays the queens are the most suicidal unit ever seen, normally they actually die before the banelings do LOL. And for zerg to loose a queen in one of 2 hatcherys is the same as if a terran get contaminated the half of all their barracks, factorys ans starports.

This way of zerg´s late game lead to mass 3/3 mutas harrass as only option and i dont think that is what blizzard is looking for. "Long life for the Queen" and sorry for my bad english :P
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Arnonator #127
Arnonator
13/02/2012
@Thurgudd: you should probably back up some tech like spawning pool and a spire in an expansion and in main base.
And wtf is the goal with auto bury? If u hot-key your queen it takes 2 seconds or less to burrow.
The production of zerg is really quick if you compare to toss or ran, for terran you should have like 5 rax if you want to bio build. For zerg if you have 3 hatchery's (1main 1expand and 1 macro)and 3 queens u can have an army in no time.
Late game is kind of difficult for zerg but with tactics like corruptor, broodlord or muta broodlord for maneuverability, it can do very well, especially against turteling players.
In fact if a player turtles, the zerg has an economy of over 3 times as big and it should be easy to win.
And don't forget that a hatchery actually cost you a worker!
And if you rely on only your hatchery's creep then well...
Then you won't get far...
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ConcusivKjel #669
ConcusivKjel
25/01/2012
Neural parasite - Followup on the nerfstorm?
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Týr #731
Týr
20/01/2012
i know a couple of changes that would basically fix things, nerf medivac heal for example make it a HoT spell that takes about 25 - 50 energy to cast, exchange stalker movespeed with zealot, get rid off forcefield, make hallucinations take normal dmg, buff the hydra hitpoints lower it's dps but just by a little, and here it comes! No scan for terran :D just a few ideas, and oh.. how about making reaper be able to shoot up and not the marine? or how about marines the only unit to be able to stim-up? but no hate on the game, still a good game but somethings needs drastic change in the current SC2:WoL
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Arnonator #127
Arnonator
13/02/2012
@Týr: THAT WOULD TOTALY SCREW THE GAME
What's next? Taking away DT's cloak?
Dude seriously...
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Arnonator #127
Arnonator
13/02/2012
@Arnonator: I'm suddenly happy that Blizz doesn't listen to the community that much...
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Sidious #848
Sidious
18/01/2012
Lol, NoFace you have the Colossus for that matter :)))
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Athena #137
Athena
08/01/2012
Also in the heart of the swarm, toss got only 1 new ground unit that copy enemies. I would like to see more ground units, perhaps a stronger/bigger verision of the zealot?
or mabye a giant protoss ground unit like the thor or ultralisk? Would be nice to see toss also have a unit that shows the real technology of the Protoss. (sry for bad english)
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Kakado #307
Kakado
13/01/2012
@NoFace: The colluses are not high tech? :/
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Athena #137
Athena
08/01/2012
Void rays laser should go from blue to red when it does maxinum dmg
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tomer #196
tomer
06/01/2012
some ideas that i think will be nice is for the void ray can also change the color as the beam grow larger make it very clear at witch charge stage it is, also for the spawn larva issue i think giving queens a auto spawn larva for higher energy cost will give low players easier macro ability while high lvl players will be able to keep injecting menually for better performans (something like spawn larva 25 energy auto spawn larva 35 energy)
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Thurgudd #478
Thurgudd
27/01/2012
@tomer: I like that idea of auto spawn larva,but i think it may be even more energy expensive (near to 50 energy or more) to make it really cost efficient to spawn it manually. If it is too cheap i will just auto spawn it and zerg will be too imba if it gets larvae at a semi normal rate and you don´t waste time injecting. You have to notice that as zerg you never waste time building 4 factorys or 11 gates, you just make a few hatcherys and one spawning pool, maybe rarely 2 spires but thats it.
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SharkZ #133
SharkZ
04/01/2012
The more I watch the game the more I feel like ForceFields are a bad idea overall.Yes protoss need to have smth to stop mass units early game but .... FFs can and are used offensively and especially vs Zerg that has melee and 4 range units early game u can do some pretty terrible things to them ... :( I feel like AT LEAST if FFs still exist in the future they should have hitpoints and be killable , like 300-500 HPs or smth reasonable so they still do their job but making 5-6 sentries as ur first units and then doing whatever u want to zerg armies especially is kinda BAD .Marines and marauders can still fire because of their 5-6 range even when terran army is cut by FFs but zerg army just wanders around and die ...)
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DaftRock #510
DaftRock
01/01/2012
Protoss no variety: P need to evolve. Not play same builds again and again. Warp prism is so sick unit, dont tell me you can handle one WP per game?!
Reaper: I dont see way to balance this unit. DPS, damage, movement is so sick. Once its not SUPER-fast and is only fast, T players refuse to use it. Same can happen once helion cost gas.
energy upgrades- Less upgrades for T. BroodWar-like upgrades seems fine to me.
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SmurfGrenade #713
SmurfGrenade
02/01/2012
@DaftRock: BW energy upgrades were highly unusable, u should be using your energy constantly therefore maxing it out sux.

agree on protoss play, watch white-ra he does amazing things with warp prism

agree on reaper - make it fast, its too much, keep it that way, u loose tech advantage, when u build them early and they r not worth building late. if u wanna take any unit out, it should be this one even though i like it (the idea behind it). Dont take out carriers and dont change thors into mothership since u r gonna take that one out too.
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SmurfGrenade #713
SmurfGrenade
31/12/2011
carriers shouldnt be taken out. Taking out an iconic unit of starcraft equals to fail. The problem remains with the fact that all units protoss have evolve around warp mechanics. Sice warp is so powerful, the army composition will be always gateway heavy. Robotics bay directly supports power of deathball with Colossi/immortal units or offers harassing/scouting options while stargate does neither (besides phoenix lift micro which does minor damage to economy considering the cost of phoenixes).

So far we can see stargate play as an early game cheese option versus terran or as an answer to 1/1/1 all-in build. Also versus zerg as a harrassing opener to gain more time to build up deathball. But mid/late game u wont c something like 15 stargate transition simply because multi gateway play will greatly benefit out of warp mechanics.

In BW carriers were the most common PvT end game option. This is not the case in SC2 even that carriers are in fact more playable than before (starting with 4 interceptors already). And the only REAL counter to carriers that terran currently has is yamato gun. Marines r great counter if carriers r out of position and vikings r soft counter at the very best.

My suggestion is not to take the warp out (since that would take the flavour of protoss macro away) but incorporate warp within Robotics bay and Stargate alike. Perhaps under more complex rules - like its own warp upgrade needed to research first or longer warp time required.
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Mackx #800
Mackx
09/01/2012
@Abort: or make a power field range from the robo-bay or stargate in which the unit can be warped in so you won't be able to just spawn in close range (unless you proxy them ofc. lol)
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kelpuutettu #972
kelpuutettu
30/12/2011
"Protoss Play Style — More variety please!"
If protosses get bored because they do have to do the same thigs, why not change racese? Or trying somethin new? I don't see the point in complaining... It's up to them!