Call to Action: Balance Testing
We’ve recently published a custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard 1.5.0 Balance v1.0," in which we’re testing a few small balance changes to StarCraft II. Our plan is to bring the changes to the game in a week or so. Here’s the situation:
- Globally, matchups outside the professional level are balanced, and we see no significant issues.
- As always, we are watching matchup balance in order to react as best as possible when issues do arise.
- At the very highest levels of eSports competition, we feel that terran players are at a slight disadvantage against zerg. Many terran players, specifically those just below the very highest skill level, are underperforming in this matchup.
- We’re dealing with this issue very carefully, because at the highest end of the pro level, terran players look about equal against protoss.
- We’re making the smallest changes that we believe will address this.
Here’s what we’re testing:
Creep tumor build radius, vision radius, and creep spread radius decreased from 10 to 8.
This is a relatively minor change, but one that we feel will positively impact game balance at the highest levels of competition. After carefully watching as the pro game has shifted since zerg players started spreading creep more often, we noticed the increase in creep spread was only having a significant impact on TvZ. These are our goals with this change:
- Keep the early game queen defenses and creep spreading viable, while at the same time making it slightly more difficult for the zerg pro to quickly spread creep across the whole map.
- With tactics where a single creep tumor is being used, there is practically no change. Creep doesn’t spread fast enough for this change to make a difference at most levels of play.
Raven movement acceleration increased from 2 to 2.25.
Raven movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.5.
After seeing pro players using the raven, we made these changes considering these two lines of reasoning:
- Even the best micro players in the world were struggling to use the raven due to the slower acceleration and movement speed of the unit. Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors.
- Because ravens are difficult to use, we don’t expect this buff will have more than a small impact on high-level play or any significant impact on balance at most skill levels.
As always, these changes are not final. Please log on, try out the changes for yourself, and then join our feedback thread. We’re looking forward to testing these changes with you, and will do our best to address the feedback we receive.
Comments (149)
http://www.gaming-insight.de/sc2/2890
So apparently, after almost 4 months of zerg being favored in TvZ, suddenly raven and creep change, even though minor, won't go through because according to Kim, zergs are again struggling against terran. This seems to be based on those 3 late games played on Metropolis where terrans won zerg in the late game.
I particularly like how they will sit on balance changes for 4 months, giving terrans plenty of time to try to adapt, and then make a rapid decision based on 3 games on 1 tournament.
Well played, Blizzard.
From the matches I play, creep isnt used alot, and I am trying to use it more often. Those small changes are just annoying..
Again, I understand the point completely, but it feels stupid =P
is weak vs mass air like muta or void (4v4 problem but i think in 1v1 too)
is weak vs terrran because they dont have marine marauder crush unit alone
-Colossi but they get vikings
- High templar but than you get ghost EMP
- Carrier (that works in my opinion but carrier will be removed ;l)
my opinion nerf the !@#$ing stimpack remove it from the marauder (buff there shells) make the EMP an abbility upgrade
dont remove carrier but nerf the gravitic catapult and remove voidray they never used in 1v1 (alone sometimes vs zerg) and replace by the tempest than they get the surgical strike role(dont make it a capital ship) and i think that things will be more used and make the carrier (after the removing of the gravitic catapult upgrade) buff the time they need to warp in and buff the phoenix with or a splach damage upgrade or add + 1 range so they can counter a mass voidrays in 4v4
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terran
never using mec (alone siegetanks -banshee (for banshee rush) and helions
my opinion
make the fusion core a require to upgrade the vehicle and air level 2 and 3 so if you have a fusion core and its scout the enemy direly thought ooo noo bc and if you get a fusion core already you make 1 or 2 bc to support your army (same of carrier if you must go phoenix vs air)
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zerg
- in early game weak vs air (you can birth queens of course)
- never using of the hydralisk
- overpowers roach rush in the begin game (maybe its easey to counter but its just so lame)
my opinion make the hydra a tier 1 unit require a spawning pool (in hots)
and roach require a lair and bring the musculair augment (hydra speed upgrade) upgrade now in WoL (require a lair plz)
maybe if the roach lair level (tier 2) you can buff the attack speed
Sorry to say this but the hydra tier 1 idea would be overpowered as !@#$! and i say that as a zerg player. Hydras are great vs gateway and if you can build them with a spawning pool you will not see 6 polls anymore no you will see pure all in hydra pushes like a protoss 4gate 2 times as strong.
and you idea with protoss suck vs mass air... get archons and in lategame get a mothership AND archons.
when you upgrade terran weapons you need an armory for +2 and +3 why would you want a battlecruiser if you want to go mmm?
And no! You do not make 1-2 battlecruisers to support your army in 1v1. The battlecruiser is nearly never used in fact.
Ohh and btw voidrays are getting used a lot. so it is a bad idea to remove them.
you can say archons with mothership (its alone a 4v4 noob problem) but archons cost 300 gas and 4 food 100 min and if you have see the 4v4 maps you can max 2 -3 expends
and i never see voids in 1v1 i think alone voidnoobs use him in 4v4
and hydra mwa i dont know you can always nerf the start range and groove spines increase + 2 or so
also hydra get the same role as the roach you can do the same with roach the but roach have more life and hydras can be killed more easer
and it slove the early banshee rush
but the point is in hots you can test it in the beta and see whats stro nger roch rush or hydra rush than you can always nerf the range and give groove spine upgrade more + 2 or so
and terran i dont know bc never use of courese but now with the tempest i think bc will be more use with redline reactor for ( i think bc get a smiler role to the tempest) thats why i say make armory upgrade 2 and 3 fusion core require \
and why carrier i use it vs late mmm ghost viking
so dont remove carrier and replace the void (thats make the tempest a really harassment unit with the siege range and less DPS i think tempest also never used)
its in hots idea btw
Neosteel Frame
Researched from: Engineering Bay
Increases the cargo space of a Bunker by 2 and the load space of a Command Center or Planetary Fortress by 5.
I have never used this upgrade as I find it completely useless. It would be awesome to replace it with ability to allow terran players build their using up to 99% when they are at maximum 200/200 supply. Zerg and protoss players can re-max after fight a lot faster.
and dump maybe you put a marauder more but i dont say you do it always but sometimes it also add more armor so vs bandeligs or vs mass muta to make a anti air bunker (turrets are weak vs muta) is cleave to do it also i have lots of skills in the editor so i understand why blizzard add some upgrades
Its time to nerf and lower the skill cap of Terran or make Zergs higher. A playing having 80% winrate at the highest level cannot be deemed fair or be allowed.
So im assuming steps are being taken. Or do you want Taeja to have 85-90% winrate vs zerg?. and terran can use the 3 stupid units every game vs zerg, marine, siege tank, medivac.
i agree the same vs toss whats the win rate t v p
and common 5 upgrades to the raven (seeker tech energy upgrade durable materials hi-sec auto and building armor (and the 3 air armor but thats normal) remove durable materials man that upgrade suck but its just my opinion
If you want balance blizz lower the apm required by terrans to function, this will make little to no difference to pros who effectively have limitless apm but will make balance better below 250 spam level
T does not require more apm. It requires more apm when you're in a direct engagement, but clever playing can help with that issue. I nearly only lose to basesniping. They hide their whole army and then run in and snipe a base of mine as I advance through the map. Is that very hard? No, right click, a-move. And I need all my forces if I shall attack. I can maybe leave a templar or two, but they won't make a difference.
My average is between 110-130, and almost all T's I see average from 65-90. So there's a clear difference there. But some still win. T is not at a disadvantage. People just need to become more clever with the race. Zerg have done that. T just hasn't been able to figure things out. Look at people like Taeja or ThorZain. Taeja 80% winrate TvZ against some of the best Z's in the world. Is T very hard? No, just deny creep and drop-attackswing. So easy. P is harder because I have to judge how much troops I must split from the main army to defend drops. Too little, they were in vain, too many, my main army crumbles.
In short, APM is not a big of an deal.
Your post is full of bias so it's just worthless to argue here. To me it seems that you actually know something about playing Terran despite the fact you play Protoss. So tell me, have you actually experienced laddering as Terran at your level?
the olny thing to beat marine - marauder is carrier (do that work ? yes to snipe maraudrs) colossi stalker ht some phoenix for viking and zealot sometimes sentry hallucination and forcefield and a mothership with vortex or massrecall but my marco isn't the best and an other problem is terrans rush always i was 7 gold now im 21 because i get alone terran
NERF THE !@#$ING STIMPACK FROM 50% MORE SPEED AND ATTACK SPEED TO 25 OR 30 % and remove it from the marauder man that thing shoot with stims even fast as the marine 15 (+5 vs mechanical) damage per hit holy %^-* is their a unit what did more DPS ? you can always buff the marauder with other things also buff some mec thats more fun to play vs terran
Unfortunately, the proposed patch changes are not appropriate in comparison to the struggle which players had for months after the last patches.
Feedback:
- Creep tumor size is still reasonable. In fact after playing a couple of games as and against Zerg on the test map, the new creep tumor size feels much more natural.
- Spreading creep tumors becomes a bit faster, because you can avoid scrolling when doing so now.
-You can still spread creep easily with a couple of queens. Maybe not cover an entire area on big maps, but cover the areas that matter.
- Creep tumor DENSITY is much (!) higher now, which slows down terran and toss when pushing through creep towards the zerg.
- Raven speed is nice, but I cant see it have a big impact (same as the BC speed upgrade). Raven HEALTH and/or RANGE would have been a much better choice and would also have been more appropriate given the total cost (Starport with tech lab is something terran players normally dont have in a game or at least only temporal, this reduces your medivac or viking production and the raven with its high cost almost never pays off this trade.) Raven speed is a small step in the right direction, but not enough.
make fungal radius smaller or nerf the dmg
ez game balanced