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Jus as alot of players has expected, after the zealot nerf, protoss get rushed to death, funny how I never used to loose to proxy before, but now jus lost 2 games, this patch did not stop ppl from proxying at all, in fact I see more proxy now than prepatch, I play alot of team random 2v2, and whenever I random another protoss allie, we get proxied to death, especially when one do a 6 or 8 pool other proxy Rexs, I scout at 8 then do 10 double gate stil cant hold it off, this is really not balanced and is messing up the game more than ever, prepatch proxy gateway never worked well in higher leagues, now every 2nd Platinum game is about proxy, very ironic

Nerf M+M+M and you'll do the game a great favour.

Hope you guys at blizz are watching GSL. You are nerfing the BC, ultra and tank because they are too cost effective. What about the Colossi. The Colossi has always been way more cost effective than the ultra. 1 ultra cant turn the tide of battle you need maybe 4-5, but 1 colossi really turns the tide of battle. And the thing with ultra is that it is a counter... thats prolly why your statistics tell you it does so much damage. Z players make them to counter certain builds (like all mech or just stalker+ colossi). But the colossi.... its an allround killer on the battlefield. 4-5 with some support burns through anything without having to "counter" that composition. And the counter for it? Corruptor... please its a joke. You cant overcommit on them since your ground army will be way too weak, and they do really low damage to colossi even with the +vs massive. And its not like its hard for the p player to micro the focused colossi away. Remove the range upgrade for the colossi and it would be balanced.. its a damn cool unit, but way too strong.

Hi guys please read this, and if possible give me a feedback, thanks:

For what I understood, Z should be able to surround enemies with large forces. But how, when they cost too much Vespern Gas (slow mining), Overlords, beaten down by Air Units (no AntiAir!) when spreading creep and maps(but they are pretty nice and good build) that forbid this from doing so.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/628078725 from taketobreak User, some countings. Im not really sure, if his countings are correct, but please take a look on them:
total zerg cost for 2base tier3 max production all upgrades = 2150 / 1400 then 475 to build a expansion

total terran cost for 2base tier3 max production all upgrades = 2050/1050 then 412.5 to build a expansion

So after the calc. the Zerg need to get to High-Tech T3 400 more gas. If a drone needs cca. 3sec., to bring the gas home, the terran player gets apr. 5 minutes real time before he gets to T3. Can you recallculate?
It wouldnt be a problem, if you could stick more drones to the Vespern Gaser, so they might get this quicker, but im not really sure, if the Mutalisk Rushes wouldnt then be OP. (perhaps ever thought bout a build, that makes/exchanges minerals to gas?)

The Zerg have difficulties by defending their expansions, when they are outside the main. The T or P can get Rocket Towers, bunkers or Cannons to defend them, which are simply too hard to knock down. F.Ex: 10 Mutas, take out the Rocket towers, but with Stimmpacked marines that come after knocking those tower down the remaining Mutas dont stand a chance.

Please do something for the Mid-game and Late-Game ballance for Zerg. the Zerg are really powerfull at Early-game rushes, but after those (needed to stand a chance to get to the mid/late-game) they just get smashed, roasted, toasted, burned, shot or splashed. (I saw that SiegeTanks get some nerf. but I thinks its still too powerful)
T - MMM + Thors/Sieges are just not to overpower. At least I didnt find a tactic. Z mostly dont get into the fight, If youre lucky, u make som damage, but afterwards, with low on Vespern Gas you just dont have the chance to reinforce your troops, which probably was the Idea of Zerg attacking in Numbers. They just cost too much Vespern, where on other hand a good T playes needs to hold on until T3 and build MMM+T/ST and just walk to the other side of the map. (unless youre lucky and have a bunch of bannelings underground). Increasing Hydras speed, range, damage or armor might do the trick here. in T3 Brood Lords are tooo slow, weak agains MMM fire!

CREEP: Creep makes big difference in Zerg play, but honestly, it vanishes too fast. Give Creep Tumor more health. If you spread the creep through Overlords, you risk, that you loose too many of them and cant rebuild your forces when needed.

Supply: With the amount of supply taken from several units, Z are stuck at building the Overlords, wich take time/drone per each and minerals!! Maybe decreasing the cost of this unit might make the trick, the transport Upgrade costs 200/200! I think thats a prevention from early rushes more than enough. Perhaps an increase of Z max. unit count?

I dunno, if you had a chance to look at this site, but its just something you should see, that the Z need something to get them back as a race.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152533

Thanks and Regards =)
me

I would like to see some really strong anti-air from the zerg. Early VRs are such a pain and if they are more than 3 nothing can kill them.

I will give an example, just got VR rushed in a 3v3 game and 5 charged VRs killed my 5 corruptors and 2 alied non-charged VRs in a second. Only one of them died. Sorry, but the corruptors are so weak against everything but BC and carriers. Please help the zerg defend the air!

The reaper rush I like, think it will help zerg's early defenses against 5-rax reapers which was often gg in the past.

And I dont agree with the comments that the races are inbalanced. There is some slight change needed to be done with the zerg to help defend more effectively against certain builds. Guess why terran players are 50-60% ? Aehm, maybe the whole 29 missions campaign revolved around them and its much easier to start ? Yes.

Early pressure from several rax's worth of reapers and early pressure from rushed hellions will still be forcing zerg into certain builds while terran can expand and tech to a counter to roaches (which usually will be the counter you are forced into as Z). A couple of seconds extra on the reaper will not really change the mass rax reaper pressure in my opinion as the case is just not about rushing forward that first reaper but to keep the zerg in his base with several reapers while sniping off units. Other than that I think zerg needs to spend too much resources on infrastructure. There are so many things you MUST research and the cost is usually very high. Zergling speed= absolute must... you cant really play without it these days. Roach speed= a must if you are using roaches. Overlord speed= a must since they are your main scouting resource, and you also need it not to have too many sniped off mid/late game. Hydra range= must if you are using hydra, they are too slow and easily kited without it. Overlord drop= its just such a big investment considering you also need the speed upgrade, it costs so much just to get droptech which terran gets for free with its medic substitute. Burrow= not a must but something you need in many situations.... All these upgrades cost alot of gas and macroing up a large enough army to compete while getting these upgrades is very often a problem. Another problem is that we also have near useless upgrades. Neural parasite: The investment isnt worth it anymore... the 12 second mind control is too short, its sad to see that it is never used in pro games anymore. Make it 30 seconds or something or set it back to permanent.... It used to be such a cool spell that could turn the tides of a battle (without being too strong in my opinion since you can easily kill off the infestors while they are channeling NP). Adrenal glands: not worth the cost, its a lower upgrade than +1 attack which is a 20% dps increase while adrenal glands is only 16,5%... and why is it hive tech? A hive tech upgrade for lings should make them viable in late game in some way, but the zerglings are mostly useless lategame as 200/200 balls kill of zerglings long before the lings can be cost effective. Hydra range upgrade: Shouldnt this be something the hydra has unupgraded... the hydras arent really cost effective for being a unit that costs 100/50 as it is. Give the hydra a special ability as research and make the hydra have 6 range from the start. Roach burrow movement: Too situational, let the roaches have the movement if they have burrow... the roaches are already a tad too weak to be 2 supply... burrow is a tier 2 tech anyways. Infested terran: the idea is good, but they should spawn alot faster... As it is now you will in 99% of situations want to save energy for fungal growth instead. Corruptor: The unit is so situational and has very little synergy... you mainly see them built for anti colossi or just a middlestage for broodlords. And its not even that good at picking off colossi since the range and speed on it is so slow. A little bit of micro with a colossi and you can easily defend it from corruptors. And the worst part is the spell corrupt. Its alot more micro intensive than any other spell in the game and its impact is also quite weak. Make corrupt cost alot of energy and make it become a splash spell. This way we would maybe see corruptors used alot more and it would have more roles than a simple anti colossi unit. Nydus worm announcement sound: It already has a long build time so why does everyone need to know that its out... drops and unit warp ins doesnt have announcement sounds. Ultras: are fine the way they are, except that they are a bit too clunk considering that the maps are so small and full of chokes. They are very good when you have several and they counter certain builds (mass stalker + colossi for example). But they are also easily countered with marines, tanks with marine support also destroy them, marauders with stim, stalker+ colossi+chargelots. They are very specialized so I dont think they should be put in the same category as the BC for example (since you mentioned that was one of the reasons you nerf the ultra). The ultra is one of the few units that can break a heavy tankline with marine support and it should stay that way in my opinion. Because the tank nerf will not change anything all that much. Zerglings will still get 1 shot, roaches will still take the same damage, hydras are so slow and squishy that they will still be anihilated before they reach the tanks. Anyways I am hoping for more synergy over all for the zerg race.. too many units, abilities and tech is too situational.

Either remove concussive shells, stimpack or nerf both on marauders. They are just way too cost effective for t1 unit. Actually, i'd say they are the most cost effective unit in entire game. They, or marines that also do insane dmg.

No roach buffes nor hydra, at last not buffes that would affect PvZ as roaches are extremely good against zealots already and buffing anything would make early 1 base roach way too hard to stop. Adding +armored dmg would make them counter both stalkers and zealots... And we already have marauders that do exactly that and it's clearly not working.
Sure, hydras are fragile but they should have roaches tanking that dmg. If they feel so gimbed becouse of their movement, perhaps a t3 speed upgrade so it won't be available immediately.

In addition I would say terran needs something to think about when changing techs. Switching from reactor to tech lab should take more than just lifting building and lowering it at a different place. Make it so that after lowering a building to an add-on it takes as long time to be functional than it'd take to build a new one but without costing anything.
And raise Scan cost to 100 or add 90sec CD to mules so it wouldn't make any difference when played correctly but it would punish for missing it, just like forgetting a queen does currently.

I'm a Zerg player, and my main concerns with the race are the 3 following points:
Ultralisks are BIG! Every time I build them it ALWAYS ends up with 2-3 of them actually reaching the fight, the rest just stomps around the back waiting for the first ones to die. Also if they attack combined with other units they usually get stuck behind the ranks of Zergling/Roaches/Hydras. To ease off on the crazy micro needed in the heat of battle it would be great if they actually pushed friendly smaller units out of the way so they actually could fight. Would also help if they were reduced in size so it would be a use to having 5+ except when basetrashing.

My second concern is the lack of a decent scout. I know the Changeling is a potential good scout, but VERY often it gets killed before it changes, and even then it usually gets limited information as terran walls off and protoss has some units blocking the small gap into their base. Some kind of more mobile scout (not needing to go kamikaze with a supply unit) would be great.

My third concern is the build time of certain buildings, specifically Spore Crawler/Creeper and Greater Spire. Currently if a Zealot starts to move to your base at the same time you toss down a Spore Crawler the zealot will reach your base before Crawler is done. As for the Greater Spire it takes very long to morph compared to say a Terrans tech lab. Also you cannot use upgrades in the Spire while it transforms.

Nice to see you taking notice. Keep it up:)

I'm amazed to see that despite more and more ppl say the zerg is underpowered and even Blizz opened this thread for this matter, still there are people who say that the game is VERY BALANCED.
My problem is that I don't know if this is hilarious or ridiculous.

Also don't forget to make surrounds easier.

Truth be told, what I was kind of hoping for is making Corruptors actually worth something against anything that is not a Colossus. With the damage bonus only against massive, they are not very good anti-air at all. Losing to all other races' anti-air does not help them, either. Phoenixes can kite them infinitely and Vikings just prove their superiority in aerial combat. High Health / Low Damage does not bode well on a unit whose purpose is to take down a certain unit type fast.

I suppose that their active ability is one of the things to look at, maybe giving them an ability to harass the opposition if there are no juicy targets around. Phoenixes can lift workers to air and shoot them, and Vikings can come down to their level, but Corruptors just hover mid-air looking stupid.

If I were to decide, I would give them a debuff that deals low damage over time, lasts long and if the target unit dies with the debuff, it spawns three Broodlings for the Zerg player. This would be an ability to force opponents to watch their mineral lines in case of infected workers, and would allow Corruptors to help against ground armies as well.

Two suggestiong.
Give a Greater Spire research ability that will increase Brood Lord armore by +1 or +2, like the Ultralisk. Brood Lords are the Zerg Tier 3 air unit the while other races get much more health they also get a higher armore and the ability to attack air and ground forces, Brood Lords get quite a lot less. In assition, if this were to effect the Coruuptors as well it would be worthwhile for players who don't like/need BL to upgrade to Greater Spire.

Second suggestion, make Overseers useful by giving them another ability. Paying an additional 50m/100g for a spellcaster with one spell that is sometimes efficiant (Changeling) is stupid.

Reapers are still going to be extremely one-dimensional. Those 5 seconds are going to make a world's difference!
Don't care about ultra and BC changes.
Tank change is good.

Now remove stim from marauders.

I'd have prefered some maruader changes (like removing stim on marauders) but i'll take what i can get :P Ultralisk change i'm liking. We give up a little damage but we gain cleave on buildings (meaning planetary forts will be easier to kill)

i just had a thought about the removal of the Ultralisk's structure attack, specifically vs Terrans. it's not uncommon for Terran players to pull some (or all) SCVs from resource gathering in order to save an important building by repairing it while it's being attacked. now when the Ultralisk does splash damage when attacking buildings, it will be much more difficult for the SCVs to do that, since they will get crushed quickly, unless they are far enough away from the Ultralisk(s).

either buff roaches by putting some +armored dmg or nerf marauders, simple as that

Just cut the marauders from the stim packs and everything will be fine from here on.

I posted something yesterday but sadly it was lost to the void...

well I'll make it short:
Zealot and Gate may arguably make sense.
Tank nerf seems a good idea.
BC was necessary and Ultra change seems sensible.

BUT how can you seriously do that without changing mm, mmm & m + ghost? (To be clear I mean NERF, don't get any funky ideas blizzard ;) )
I'd say do something about the marauder, it does well as a tank and high dmg vs armored, it does not have to be able to fight EVERY other unit in the game and marines are already the most cost effective unit in the game.
So make it slower/shorter range and/or take away stim, there are a multitude of options.
I mean you DO want that terrans actually have to use other units than mmm and tanks every once in a while, right?
With the zealot and tank nerf EVERYBODY will be spamming mmm...
PLEASE RECONSIDER AND REEVALUATE THIS, BLIZZARD.

Or you could give an upgrade for hatchery, unlocked by spawning pool that would give all hatcheries/lairs/hives, the passive bonus of creating the larvas as if you would have a queen that injects the ability everytime it gets.
So instead of having a queen to spawn larvas everytime or with auto-cast, it will be a passive skill for hacheries that spawn 1 more larva for every 10 seconds.
Afterall, it's a "command center" upgrade like terrans have or protoss. Why depend on a unit that can be easily killed?

I used to play Zerg.. but i think they are to weak compared to P and especially T. The major problem with imbalance is the starting units (pool, gateway, barracks).
The real problem is not getting a fast zealot as blizz is now nerfing, the real problem is fast marauders.
early baracks units is way stronger than both gateway and pool units, there is no real counter to them. as Z you are in trouble if 4marauders and 6-8 marines come knocking, within the first 5-8 minutes and so are P.

look at this way: zerglings melee, zealot melee, stalker ranged, marine ranged, marauder ranged. so both the early units from T is ranged, which means they can be microed from melee units. on top of that they can get concus shells and stim. terran at this stage is very strong early on.

ACtually is verry balanced...

I agree with Infamis

its Balanced 100% , No need to change any thing .

zerg creep should slow down by 10 % or more i think it would balance the game a lot since reapers walk to fast and can snipe to much with out zerglings catching up to them i think it would only balance the game since terran can just defend like crazy with siege tanks and protoss with force field i think they need something unique with defences currently the only defences they have are spine crawler and spore crawler so i think it will only help zerg with the early rushes i would rather like that then decreasing reaper time spawn and gateway ...

just leave it like it is, too early for changes... if there should be any, just small changes step by step for each race, that will help to see the impact, too many changes for terran so fast might not be a good idea as it pisses of terran players, and will change the play style too much...