StarCraft® II

3 gate + stargate.

Posts: 249
Hi.

Would like some feedback on this build. been playing protoss lately and against terran especially i find really strong.

terran usually makes that first push with mm about min 6, wich you can easily hold it off, and if he does not scout the stargate, usually against toss all terrans go for more marauders.

I've also used it against zerg, but it does not work all that well against z. usually by the time i make my first attack with zealots/sentry/void he already has spore, probably for fear of dt, if no spore then there will be at least 2 queen's not to mention spines who do pretty well against zealots.

I'm also pretty sure i am not executing it right, so like i said i would appreciate some feedback.
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Posts: 220
There are some tricks with stargate play vs terran, including supply depo harass, delaying push/expand with 1-3 void rays, sometimes forcing early marrines, warp-in on high ground (charge zealots, and voids then fry marauders).

Anyway, early stargate is risky, because terran can scout it, or get suspecious if he scouts lack of units/tech/expansion. Every terran will eventually tech for starport anyway, and 1-1-1s are so popular nowadays... And marrine/tanks/banshees counter super-early void ray by marrines alone. Again, with stargate tech you don't have crucial mobile detection.
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Posts: 249
i never go only voids...i make my first push he usually has already expanded, if my push fails or i do enough damage i go back and expand..it seems like an all in but just because i didn't get to throw down my expo does not mean i am not ready for a longer game.

Here is a replay : http://www.2shared.com/file/swId2qBn/Antiga_Shipyard__2_.html if anyone has time to take a look..

could not upload it on a sc2 replay site, probably because of the map.

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Posts: 3,024
I mostly use that against zerg, even if scouted, 3 void rays (plus an optionnal phoenix) can kill two queens and take down a spore crawler. Zerg are surprisingly vulnerable to air once you have that critical number, you WILL force a ton of spore crawlkers and a tech switch to hydras.
If unscouted, you may be able to destroy the natural, but you need to chrono a fourth void ray at your base because a counter attack is very likely.

I usually have the stargate at the same time I expan, which right after launching the 3rd gate are warping down. This allows for the first void ray to pop just in time to fight a zerglings/roaches all in, still, you need a proper building placement and force fields at your expan to mitigate damage.
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Posts: 249
i could also use some information about what counters what in pvz...only played terran so far. hydras have big range so they pretty much own zealots and stalker right ? best counter for hydras is coloss ? i also find mass roaches pretty hard to counter.

i mean against terran i know what my army composition is suposed to be...against zerg not so much..i go coloss he goes corruptor wich are a pain in the !@#, or broodlord .

thx in advance
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Posts: 220
Mass roaches can be stopped with sentries and stalkers early, into robo tech.

Hydra are not big of a problem unless played really well - it is expensive, slow off creep and squishy. Colossus, HT. Separate roaches from hydra and deal with roaches first.

Mutaling - some chargelots, sentries, blinkers. Some prefer archons.

Your real bane is infestors. No real counter except for HT. Coupled with speedlings and/or roaches/hydra, can be devastating as hell.

But anyway I find that in PvZ it is expansion count matters not unit composition. Early expansion from zerg is almost never can be punished properly, and FFE or 3gate expand can be outexpanded instantly. That is a real problem.
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Posts: 4,177
I like 1 gate stargate and if opponent does not do a early push too early, I expand behind that. It is quite safe in the beginning but it gets harder because there are less sentries and stalkers and 2 bases cannot really support poor air units.
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Posts: 3,024
From my diamond experience:
The typical PvZ army is stalkers/sentries/colossi, with the optionnal void rays and high templars.
Sentries are the key units, they can prevent zerglings from surrounding your forces in early game and the roaches from roflstomping your army in mid game (I tend to open with void rays because I hate roaches). The best case scenario is when you can force the zerg to fight in a choke - because you are attacking his third for instance.
Assuming roaches/hydras, you use force fields to split a few roaches from the main army and block the bulk of the zerg forces. Your colossi have enough range to shoot behind the force fields with impunity, and with any luck, the corruptor will fly straight towards them so your stalkers can shoot them down. Be careful with your colossi, you need to keep them alive unless you can destroy the entire zerg army in the battle.

In short, keep your gas heavy units alive using forcefields. This can apply to every matchup, but it is particularly true in PvZ.

Against zerglings/mutas(/banelings), you probably want to fight the harass with cannons, blink or phoenixes, and transition into archons.
Edited by Telenil on 06/09/2011 12:17 BST
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Posts: 249
thx for the feedback, much appreciated.

on forcefields..for example against terran i forcefield in front of the army or between the army to split them up ?

against zerg the same question . i forcefield near my army to block ling/bling...that's how much i know, however when not faced with ling bling i'm not really sure how to throw down force fields.
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Posts: 4,177
thx for the feedback, much appreciated.

on forcefields..for example against terran i forcefield in front of the army or between the army to split them up ?

against zerg the same question . i forcefield near my army to block ling/bling...that's how much i know, however when not faced with ling bling i'm not really sure how to throw down force fields.



Against Terran, it depends on what units you have. If you have zealots as your main army, you want to FF the Terran MM behind so you trap them. That is to prevent kiting and it is better to make them into a line rather than keep them as a ball so your zealots can hit as many of your enemy as possible. If you have a colossi/stalker (or HT) based ball, you want to but them in half and try to keep them as a ball (FF donut) so you can hit his front units but his back units cannot move forward to hit you. Obviously, the second way requires a lot more FF so you might consider just to cut them in half with a line of FF.

Against Zerg, if it is a roach/hydra ball, you can do FF using donut FF. FF is not that good anymore when Zerg can use banelings drop and infesters. Before infesters, FF is very good. Especially working with blink stalkers. You can blink back hurting units whilst the stalkers in the back still hitting the a few units in his front group and eventually your stalkers will be out of his range doing maximum damage to him and limit his abilities to damage you.
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Posts: 3,024
for example against terran i forcefield in front of the army or between the army to split them up ?

against zerg the same question . i forcefield near my army to block ling/bling...that's how much i know, however when not faced with ling bling i'm not really sure how to throw down force fields.
Ideally, you want to split the terran army in half, more or less. Marines and marauders are softer than roaches and you will have a lot more zealots, so you don't want to have the zealots blocked by your own force fields once you've killed everything on your side of the barrier. Easier said than done, though.
Against zerglings/banelings, I'd say it depends. If you fight in your ramp, just force field behind a bunch of zerglings to prevent them from retreating. Since the zerglings are faster, they tend to go in front of the banelings on their own.
If you are attacked by zerglings in the open, forcefield around your own stalkers and sentries, so that the zerglings will have to move around and face the zealots. The point is that the zerglings will have a lot less area to attack your forces (so some of them will be useless) while your stalkers/sentries can, again, shoot above the force fields. Besides, zealots are quite good at tanking zerglings and cost only minerals, so you want the zerglings to attack them anyway.
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Posts: 249
thx for taking the time to asnwer...really usefull advice.

now all i gotta do is practice and maybe manage to win a pvp..only won 2 games vs protoss out of 15...
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Posts: 350
Btw you said that in PvZ your stargate opening was not so good if the zerg already has spores (x1) on each base in case of of DT's well here is what I do I destroy his gases because most of the times the spore is place more near the mineral line so you will have range to kill it without taking any dmg and if a queen comes by you can pick it up and kill it.After that you search for another weak point like getting a proxy pylon and use the air units to warp additional units.Getting 1 sentry in that attack can do wonders for FF his ramp he will have less forces in the fight.
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Posts: 3,024
IMO a void ray opening really shines once you have enough power to kill a queen or two and then destroy a spore crawler after that. The zerg is usually confident that 2 queens + a spore will push back a void ray attack... and they are surprisingly vulnerable when it doesn't. They have to panic-build hydras or mass spore crawlers, and there is a big time window to kill drones, or even a hatchery if you get lucky.
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