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U wont learn anything from the game from cannonrushing and getting a huge advantage or dissadvantage in the game if it works or fails.

go 16 nexus insted. He get hatch earlier and u get nexus earlier. problem?

Im just confused. and u get mad if a zerg 6pool and win while most of u cannon rush hes naturl or do 3 pylon block evry game vs 15 hatch.

you who dont do cannon rushes dont bother answer please.

Not a troll just very curios how toss thinks.

It might not look this way, but hatch first means earlier ling agression.

So if you see a pool first, you can nexus first but if you nexus first against hatch first, zerg will overrun you with zerglings.
Also, a hatch first has more potential in pumping only workers than protoss. Zerg can make a few lings and be safe. Protoss on the other hand needs to slowly pull a gate, cannons and eventually cybercore and forcefields which also require gas.

In definitive: Zerg has the lead when hatching first so attacking is the proper agression. Just like protoss attacks in PvP if the enemy has expanded.

Now this might be different in HotS with arc shield. Protoss will be able not to make a forge and just make zealots. Forge will pretty much be the roach warren equivalent.

Hmm. But if i go hatch first. i cant really have any ling aggresion earlier then pool first cus basicly i get the pool down alot slower.

Allso you can CB your bothe nexuses with those and get ur uppgrades earlier. can add more warpgates faster. and tech faster. and its a attack windown all toss have to acully just overrun Z and that is when toss have collosi and zerg dont have any broodlords.

Idd hatch can pump out more workers then toss can, but so does pool first allso but hatch first mean that u allso can spend more CB on ur nexus.

16 nexus get you cannon in time against standard pool as long as you can complete wall-off in case lings go straight for your base instead of chasing the scout. The only way zerglings will run by is if protoss plays it greedy and starts pylon blocking zerg expos as well as going nexus first.

Here is how it works:

You dont nexus first blind because that is !@#$ing stupid and it will lose you games because you play bad.

Now tell me again about your hatch first.

Hatch first against protoss is a macro cheese. You are cheesing just as much as he is.

I always go 13 or 14 Forge in an FFE specifically for this reason, if they go Hatch first, I'm gonna take the free win, I will always Pylon block as well.
What you can do then is even place a Cannon covering their ramp so they have to pull Drones and you only lose 37 minerals to do it, but they have 4+ Drones off of mining for about 30-40 seconds which is about 3x that, and if they let it finish they then have to spread creep and get a Spine or try bust it down by spending a ton of Zerglings.
All you have to do is put a couple Probes on patrol in your base in case of a Nydus all in.

You build a Forge first because if you don't, you're going to lose games to early pools, which is about 33% of all games from what I see. Since you can deny an expansion with a pylon and a cannon, you'd be a fool not to use it.

why do terrans go for bunker rushes?

Why does toss cannonrush vs a 15 hatch.

Any hatch, nexus or command center first build is very risky and I would almost call those cheeses. Economic cheeses so to speak. A cannon response, often combined with a 3 pylon block of your ramp, is a very valid way to react to such a strategy. Other options are 2 gate pressure, but most of the time, the forge will be planted already, so the logical option is to go for cannon pressure.

It is mandatory to punish hatch first builds or at least force some units instead of drones otherwise you will get overrun completely as protoss.

Just don't go hatch first. Simple. You're the one taking a risk, not the protoss. He is just responding to what he sees. This is not a cannon rush as you make it sound. The protoss didnt plan to rush you at first. He decides to do that upon scouting a very risky build from the zerg.

It is nothing called macro cheese. But most people do send 9 probe and then they will se if you go 15 hatch or 14 pool. i understand why cannon rushing. but there is not anything that can be called a macro cheese. evrything that is greedy is punishable ( lets say 15 hatch ).

bunker rush and cannon rush is two completly diffrent mathers. its so diffrent that u could say, that 7 roach is the exact same thing as 14-14 allin.

Btw im just curios :) i always get cannon rushed and ive learn to deal with it. the only real secret is not be to greedy about pulling the drones if he goes for that cannonrush.

As I've been saying; it is NOT a cannon rush. It is a reaction to a zerg which is playing greedy. Of course, the zerg can defend this if he knows the drone-stack-trick, in which case he is usually ahead. But if we don't do this, then the zerg will have won anyway if he just plays it out right.

bunker rush and cannon rush is two completly diffrent mathers. its so diffrent that u could say, that 7 roach is the exact same thing as 14-14 allin.

it is the same in what it is trying to achieve, denying zerg hatchery. and that is why people do those rushes. if we say it in a better sounded way he is trying to exploit a weakness, if you know how to deal with that weakness he will fail, if you don't he will succeed.

come to think about it, a player who will always go for cannon rush in every game is pretty much betting that his opponet will fail to defend. and the more higher rank you get the chances of this happening is lowering. the more you win the less likely you are to win again :P

It is so hard send one overlord above your exp? Same at entrance?

As Vardaine mentioned, it is the counter towards the greedy play of Zerg. You will want to do two things;

1: Put an overlord on your expansion so you can see exactly what's happening behind the mineral lines.

2: Go pool first. Seriously, it is way better and it gives you the ability to deal with an eventual pylon block. If a pylon block occurred, you will probably have some minerals in the bank, immediatly do a double-expand and you'll be on the same macro level as Protoss. No need to be greedy at the start.

(Note that with pylon block, I mean a single pylon on the expansion itself, not walling the ramp off. Countering that requires somewhat more, responsive play)

Chaneling why are you acting like a d1ck when i asked a question? i never loose to cannon rushes, i just wonder why set urself so far back to get a advantage.

Dash thats really true, you have right.

KOK I send a drone there to scout. and as spoken i never loose to cannon rush even tough i do 15 hatch.

True. now i se why toss do cannon rush insted of 16 nexus, it was aculyl a reason. i just thaught they did want to take the easiest way out.

chanling go to a place where no human lives. then you might be populer.

True, even tough its not a cheese. its still called cannon rush :D

As a guy said above. There is no actual canon rush scenario from protoss vs Zerg. Generaly every protoss that is going FFE will have in plan scenario, where they leave the possibility on canon pressure either natural, or quick third. And yes, it is more like cannon pressure rather than rush.

Personaly I do canon/pylon block when either, Z doesn't have overlord on his natural or its misplaced, or if he went hatch first and I couldn't block it. By going greedy you always should mind that you're relatively weak to early pressure situations.

And for god sake, why going hatch first in first place? 1 base toss is a totaly no-go vs Z and going double expand vs FFE which is standard, is getting you way ahead even if you opened as safe as possible.

16 Nexus is a blind opener, and there is no possibility to hold of 6pool with that. It's more a metagame build for tournaments, definetly not for ladder.