StarCraft® II

Hi

I've been finding myself going 14 gas, 14 pool in every game recently because I get so screwed over vs cute builds like pylon/cannon rush, bunker rush, six pool or other quick zergling/baneling all in and I get tilted very easily completely messing up any attempt to get a quick third hatch or sometimes even a second.

Anyone else going slow econ for high defence at the start and if you managed to ease out of it how did you do it?

Against terran you should have no trouble doing a 15 hatch as long as you maintain sight over your natural so you don't get bunker rushed. It's perfectly normal to go pool first against protoss and zerg though.

I Fast expand vs protoss because cannons rushes are not really a threat. Just put an overlord over you building hatch and you will spot anything. If you see anything fancy coming up kill it with your drones.

05/05/2012 00:33Posted by Harm

I Fast expand vs protoss because cannons rushes are not really a threat. Just put an overlord over you building hatch and you will spot anything. If you see anything fancy coming up kill it with your drones.

Dude that only works in Silve League and below, Protoss Cannons totally kill a Hatch first at higher Leagues.

15 hatch, 16 pool, 16 gas works a treat in zvz. Just remember that when your expo and pool have finished(they will at the same time) to make non-stop lings until you are sure your opponent is droning

Hatch against Protoss means dealing with the pylon and cannon behind the mineral line and the possibility that the pylon at the third will have a cannon added to it if you try and take it. I cannot imagine a way of denying 100% expansion control to a Protoss that went forge first.

People always talk about taking three or so drones off to deal with a pylon and/or cannon, am the only one in the whole game that has cannons behind the mineral line where you can't get enough drones on it to kill it before they are killed?

14g/14p vs Z
11p/19h vs P
15h vs T

Are all completely safe and standard builds that won't put you behind. No reason to ever deviate from those if you want a safe and reliable opening every single game.

05/05/2012 03:07Posted by Ben

People always talk about taking three or so drones off to deal with a pylon and/or cannon, am the only one in the whole game that has cannons behind the mineral line where you can't get enough drones on it to kill it before they are killed?

No, you're not the only one. Hatch first in ZvP is asking to play with a handicap, and no cute amount of drones is going to stop it when the pylons are placed in a spot where you can't get surrounds.

Some maps even provide features to completely block certain areas behind the minerals.

14g/14p vs Z
11p/19h vs P
15h vs T

Are all completely safe and standard builds that won't put you behind. No reason to ever deviate from those if you want a safe and reliable opening every single game.

Thank you for that, I'll give those a try.

14g 14p is fine against everything up until Plat, it was my go-to opening for a longest time. Some Zerg would probably say ti is fine until Masters, since the actual opening doesn't matter compared to how important overall macro is.

If you just want to focus on getting better fast then just stick with the speedling build, maybe a slightly greedier version vs terran like 15p 16g or something. You should start going for hatch first vs terran as soon as your comfortable though, but in lower leagues these safer openers are fine for just surviving the early game.

05/05/2012 08:34Posted by Grue

People always talk about taking three or so drones off to deal with a pylon and/or cannon, am the only one in the whole game that has cannons behind the mineral line where you can't get enough drones on it to kill it before they are killed?

No, you're not the only one. Hatch first in ZvP is asking to play with a handicap, and no cute amount of drones is going to stop it when the pylons are placed in a spot where you can't get surrounds.

Some maps even provide features to completely block certain areas behind the minerals.

This works only vs. not experienced players.

If I can, I go hatch first in ZvP and have no problem with it.
The key is :
1)dont attack pylons
2)have two drones to attack probe
3)put single drone with "hold position" at each area, where enemy can build cannon, which I am not able to deny (that means less than 3 workers can attack it)
4)and 3-4 drones attacking each cannon

05/05/2012 00:08Posted by Aerohank

Against terran you should have no trouble doing a 15 hatch as long as you maintain sight over your natural so you don't get bunker rushed. It's perfectly normal to go pool first against protoss and zerg though.

Yeah... 15 hatch vs 11-11.... it is hard enough to go 14pool-15 hatch vs 11-12. how do you think 15 FE will work.. tough 15 hatch work in ladder.

I take back what I said, 14 gas 14 pool is useless vs zerg where i've gone from gold rank 1 to gold rank 10 mainly on the back on zvz where everyone rushes and there is nowhere of not taking so much drone damage you're fcuked.

I hate ZvZ so much and those developers who haven't changed the matchup.

10/05/2012 15:32Posted by Ben

I take back what I said, 14 gas 14 pool is useless vs zerg where i've gone from gold rank 1 to gold rank 10 mainly on the back on zvz where everyone rushes and there is nowhere of not taking so much drone damage you're fcuked.

I mean no disrespect, but this sort of mindset is probably the reason you are still in gold after over 1000 1v1 wins

10/05/2012 15:53Posted by SeeKer

I take back what I said, 14 gas 14 pool is useless vs zerg where i've gone from gold rank 1 to gold rank 10 mainly on the back on zvz where everyone rushes and there is nowhere of not taking so much drone damage you're fcuked.

I mean no disrespect, but this sort of mindset is probably the reason you are still in gold after over 1000 1v1 wins

Thank for meaning no disrespect and thank you for your advice and encouragement, you really are a blessing.

I take back what I said, 14 gas 14 pool is useless vs zerg where i've gone from gold rank 1 to gold rank 10 mainly on the back on zvz where everyone rushes and there is nowhere of not taking so much drone damage you're fcuked.

I hate ZvZ so much and those developers who haven't changed the matchup.

How can a Zerg rush a 14/14?

I take back what I said, 14 gas 14 pool is useless vs zerg where i've gone from gold rank 1 to gold rank 10 mainly on the back on zvz where everyone rushes and there is nowhere of not taking so much drone damage you're fcuked.

I hate ZvZ so much and those developers who haven't changed the matchup.

If you die to any kind of rush while doing 14/14 you need to just quit playing zerg, this race is obviously not for you then.

Any pool earlier than 11, with pulled drones and spines, will be a problem for any pool later than 13. I'd say.

Edit: As a response to how 14/14 can be rushed. (I thought the reply button would quote for me... TT)