Battle.net

First off I realise I am only silver but I honestly think I have the potential for a good build that hard counter roach/hydra. This is very much so in it's infancy and I would welcome any improvments or suggestions.

The main concept here is quality over quantity. You build 3 forges and chrono boost all of them each forge for a diffrent upgrade 1 weapons 1 armour and 1 sheilds. Only use your chronos on the forges. You FFE as normal but instead of adding 2 more gateways add 2 more forges. Then build twilight and robo. Mass up stalkers off of 2 base. Pull a couple probes (for forward pylons) and go all in, when you have 2-2-2. or wait for the full 3-3-3. I have not tried this yet but I will post replays of my attempts tomorrow.

http://drop.sc/174326

Ok the general vibe here is that coloussus is a bad way to go, so we will replace that with reaserching blink or spending the additional resources on a bigger gateway army.

lol hope you are trolling or something :), anyway i am not gonna say it isent going to work in silver becouse pretty much anything cna work in silver as long as you just macro real' good.

but other than that it is pretty much a bad idea to invest that much into upgrades you just wount be able to tech or get enogh units out to actually surive.

Well I promised a game where I won using this and here it is! http://drop.sc/174326
Although I didn't intend on using it at the start, when I lost all my voids I transitioned into it, worked pretty well.

You don't need shield upgrades that badly. Making 2 Forges is standard.

Hard counter roach hydra? EVERY protoss build hardcounters that.

People still build Roach Hydra?

I don't really see this build work too well. The more Forges/upgrades you take, the less Stalkers/Colossi you get. And it's not like Colossi have any use of +1 armor and +1 shield. They should only be dealing damage, not receiving it.
I'd rather have some extra Colossi than those upgrades.

But hey, it might be a fun build. Good luck have fun. :)

Show us a build in which you get 2-2-2 at around the 12 minute mark with a sizeable gateway army and we'll talk business. Otherwise we cannot realy call this a "build".

Also, going collossus with this is pretty bad. If you go mass upgrades, you go for mass gateway units. Getting blink will be a great contribution.
Collossus will be nice as an addition when you get to the lategame. If you plan on making a timing attack with a build like this, focus on getting 2-2-2 quickly and pushing with gateway units.

Lastly, a build that relies on going all-in is a bad build by definition.

So, work on it. :)

06/05/2012 23:02Posted by ThirdShock

Pull a couple probes and go all in

Protoss should never pull Probes. They die way too fast... and Protoss has instant army production, so you want to keep those Probes busy mining resources. Probes at home = bigger army at the front. Probes in your army = faster dying army.

And if your base is still saturated after pulling Probes, you made too many of them.

07/05/2012 21:55Posted by Canyarion

Pull a couple probes and go all in

Protoss should never pull Probes. They die way too fast... and Protoss has instant army production, so you want to keep those Probes busy mining resources. Probes at home = bigger army at the front. Probes in your army = faster dying army.

And if your base is still saturated after pulling Probes, you made too many of them.

lol, I haven't actualy read that comment.

We're no terrans. Probes get in the way of your zealots who do the real damage. Pulling probes to aid in a push is pretty terrible. You take 1 or 2 to build a pylon and that's about it. We have zealots so we don't need probes.

Also:

07/05/2012 21:51Posted by Vardaine

a build that relies on going all-in is a bad build by definition.

07/05/2012 21:55Posted by Canyarion

Pull a couple probes and go all in

Protoss should never pull Probes. They die way too fast... and Protoss has instant army production, so you want to keep those Probes busy mining resources. Probes at home = bigger army at the front. Probes in your army = faster dying army.

And if your base is still saturated after pulling Probes, you made too many of them.

No. no, no! I didn't mean like that, I meant pulling 1-2 probes for forward pylons! sry for bad phrasing!

Shields are generally the last thing you upgrade for a good reason - They don't contribute as much survivability to your zealots as armour. Also, shield upgrades cost more than armour upgrades. If you get both armour and shields early, the mineral and gas investment is bound to delay more useful tech or make your army smaller, so why bother?

Also, am I right in thinking that Immortals don't actually receive bonuses from shield upgrades when deflecting high damage attacks? Do EMPs take your shield upgrade level into account, or do they do the same amount of damage regardless?

At 24minute mark you got 3/3/3

08/05/2012 16:27Posted by Starzi

At 24minute mark you got 3/3/3

I didn't plan on doing the build, when I lost my voids I transitioned into it.

Here's a simulation based on a zealot taking damage from a zergling.

You only have so many resources, and you can only pick one upgrade... armor, or shields.

Shields will give you 1 point of mitigation per hit for 12/13 hits on shields and 25 to armor (since you have 1 armor point already.) means 37/38 hits total

Armor will give you 2 points since the base armor is 1, but! There's more HP than armor, and because of the bonus armor, you can take more hits in HP, taking the zergling attack from 5 to 3 dmg per strike, which means you can take 33 strikes in hp, and 10 strikes in shields. For a total of 43 strikes total.

Let's assume you entered in cheat codes to get all the minerals you wanted, or hacked the game and have both.

a 1/1/1 upgrade gives you a total of 12/13 + 33 strikes or 45/46 in total.

The main problem with this idea is that the more you upgrade the more resources you've committed to not building units. Timing is everything in this game, and by the time you've made the upgrades you've lost valuable opportunities to strike with a sizeable force.

About shield upgrades: they're actually better than armor upgrades when you play around with Blink Stalkers. Think about it: you don't want them to take hull damage, so you Blink out when your shields run out.

The same goes for other hit and run units. Phoenices? Void Ray harass? Gogo shield upgrade.

11/05/2012 22:52Posted by Canyarion

Think about it: you don't want them to take hull damage, so you Blink out when your shields run out.

Due to this blink ability you would prioritize atk over def ;) but I know what you are trying to get at.