StarCraft® II

Not needed. Every player can box the workers in bases to see if it's saturated or not. It is a skill to have to keep your bases mining in optimal way.
Besides with some experience in the game you can pretty much at all points tell how many workers you have. It is after all part of your plan to reach certain numbers as situation permits.

First of all, you're silver.

You shouldn't really judge people by what league they belong to.
First of all, because it's rude.
Second of all, because apart from GM and complete newbees there is not much difference between leagues: there is ppl who simply KNOW a ton of things by watching streams for an instance and they are bronze because they don't play much. And there is grand masters who wining about imbalances like a middle-schoolers.

Dear Sir, you can have your platinum badge, all right. Attach it to wall, right above the chimney. But don't you dare to walk around and slap other's people faces with it.

Wow... just wow.

All lower league players are ignored, when it comes to talking about the game itself.

And if people really do know a whole lot about the game, why the hell are they in bronze-diamond? More than 50% of Starcraft II is about knowledge.

22/05/2012 00:36Posted by FenÐer

All lower league players are ignored, when it comes to talking about the game itself.

Its up to you if you want to ignore a post or not. But saying you ignore someone's point because of the league they are in is a violation of the forum rules.

21/05/2012 06:43Posted by zanyhow

Second of all, because apart from GM and complete newbees there is not much difference between leagues:

That is the biggest myth in sc2, i think you will find there is a difference to a high level diamond to a low level bronze who sits on 6 scvs all game, please don't make this comment again i'd prefer a whine about how hallucinations should do dmg or something more pointless.

22/05/2012 07:39Posted by teddy

That is the biggest myth in sc2, i think you will find there is a difference to a high level diamond to a low level bronze who sits on 6 scvs all game, please don't make this comment again i'd prefer a whine about how hallucinations should do dmg or something more pointless.

This. It's just ignorant to bunch all but the top tier and the total newbies to same category. There're masters players that play with GM's, there're diamonds that are only slightly worse than masters, and in general gold leaguers are significantly better than bronze players.

22/05/2012 00:36Posted by FenÐer

All lower league players are ignored, when it comes to talking about the game itself.

No, it's just bad manners to ignore someone's thoughts just because of their account rank. It's plain rude to dismiss someones posts just because their account is lower ranked than yours. If they have a solid reasoning, it makes absolutely no sense to try to undermine their message with crap like that. Question about worker counter or no can be answered by anyone that plays the game.

Do you like to get told in every topic that "you noobie, go away, your thoughts don't matter"? Since given your own league, you can be told that in every single post you make about the game.

20/05/2012 01:55Posted by Resist

i would like this as well. however i think a lot of people will cal this dumbing the game down.

That's because it would be dumbing the game down.

Have my babies

I mean, why want a feature for that, you can see if you are saturating it in the late game an you can more or less keep track of howmany you have the first 50 supply or so. I'm not always sure howmuch I have and it's annoying, but when you watch your replays you can see if you overdid it or if you could have used some more. It's all about practise.

In the end, dumbing the game down somewhat lowers the skill ceiling, which is absolutely not what we want in a game if we want to keep it competitive.

Why would you want to make the game even easier?

Not needed. Every player can box the workers in bases to see if it's saturated or not. It is a skill to have to keep your bases mining in optimal way.
Besides with some experience in the game you can pretty much at all points tell how many workers you have. It is after all part of your plan to reach certain numbers as situation permits.

Exactly. It's very easy to check each base saturation like this. There's no need to hotkey them or whatever you mentioned in the OP.
Definately not needed..

I think that it is a quite a good idea to a point but they shouldn't implement it. It won't be dumbing down the game, it would just make it easier to learn.

I think having the worker count will give some races more of a advantage over others.

- Zerg will go droning up to sixty(for example) and then switch to army much easier. So it will make zerg macro in general a lot easier while protoss and terran won't get that big advantage.

- Protoss will be able to decide to chrono up to X amount, switch to chrono other stuff, switch back to nexus etc. So even for protoss it will have a very slight advantage over terran.

- Terran will have very little advantage, pretty much just have decisions on when to cut SCV's to have better timing on the allins.

If they do it we will certainly see better play at the lower leagues but the impact on the metagame will be too big to just go and blindly implement it.

I think that it is a quite a good idea to a point but they shouldn't implement it. It won't be dumbing down the game, it would just make it easier to learn.

I think having the worker count will give some races more of a advantage over others.

- Zerg will go droning up to sixty(for example) and then switch to army much easier. So it will make zerg macro in general a lot easier while protoss and terran won't get that big advantage.

- Protoss will be able to decide to chrono up to X amount, switch to chrono other stuff, switch back to nexus etc. So even for protoss it will have a very slight advantage over terran.

- Terran will have very little advantage, pretty much just have decisions on when to cut SCV's to have better timing on the allins.

If they do it we will certainly see better play at the lower leagues but the impact on the metagame will be too big to just go and blindly implement it.

So in a way Terran wil get the shortest straw?

Inb4ithappensnextpatch

Often when I move out of my base, a Terran will drop me and kill off a lot of workers if I don't pay attention.

What will happen is that I, in the heat of battle, spam more army-units instead of workers and I'll negate checking if I took any losses to my mineral line. A major flaw in my game, and having a counter would help me realize how low my worker-count actually is, and as such I would probably do better in my games.

However, tunnelvision should never be rewarded. Checking up on your drones in your bases, making sure that you have 3 on each gas (and not 2 or 20) should be a part of your gameplay.

Suggest this, and you might as well implement gas geysers that start blaring sirens the instant you put more than 3 on a geyser.

What will happen is that I, in the heat of battle, spam more army-units instead of workers and I'll negate checking if I took any losses to my mineral line. A major flaw in my game, and having a counter would help me realize how low my worker-count actually is, and as such I would probably do better in my games.

That is something that happens to me, so I feel it is a valid suggestion. It isn't making the game easier any more than any of the other information is. Should warp gates be displayed? Should your minerls? Should health or should you have to click on each individual unit to find it out? This is a valid suggestion for inclusion. You can say you don't think it should happen but I don't think you can argue that it is making things easier and so is bad.

22/05/2012 11:34Posted by Hatred

Suggest this, and you might as well implement gas geysers that start blaring sirens the instant you put more than 3 on a geyser.

Case in point!!! Geysers were patched to now show the number of workers collecting from them. By the logic people are using here that makes things *easier* and so it should not have been implemented.

Its very easy to count workers, I do it a lot.

Just double-click one worker in base and you see how many workers you have.

Each row means 8 units.

It means two rows - 16 units - for mineral production.
And 4 more workers for gas (because two workers are hidden in two gas buildings)

I think its work good...

20/05/2012 17:28Posted by Resist

First of all, you're silver.

So?

Agreed. Why should a ranking matter in such this cases?

Often when I move out of my base, a Terran will drop me and kill off a lot of workers if I don't pay attention.

I know I have no right to comment right now about skill, as I am in a lower league than you, but you know this is one reason why you have good players and bad players? It's a skill to be able to control an army, and also be aware of what's happening at your base and reacting to it (like pulling drones away) So being aware should be important.

22/05/2012 17:40Posted by TerranOPbro

I know I have no right to comment right now about skill, as I am in a lower league than you, but you know this is one reason why you have good players and bad players? It's a skill to be able to control an army, and also be aware of what's happening at your base and reacting to it (like pulling drones away) So being aware should be important.

Read the entirety of my post and you'll see that I agree.

Case in point!!! Geysers were patched to now show the number of workers collecting from them. By the logic people are using here that makes things *easier* and so it should not have been implemented.

That's because you can't differentiate between 20 drones being stacked on a geyser, or just one additional one. Granted I didn't know this, I would argue beforehand that boxing workers hovering each geyser would let you see whether it was oversaturated or not.

Furthermore, this change and your suggestion do not compare. You're not asking for a display of how many drones are mining any given mineral patch, you're asking for a device that announces a weakness (or strength, for example an abundance of workers) for you.

Such a device would be helpful, yes, but is detrimental to the overall gameplay because it doesn't reward those able to keep their cool during the heat of battle, and more importantly - it doesn't innately punish those who aren't.

I believe a total worker counter would be conceptually similar to a queen energy counter or a sign that appears when you have enough energy for chronoboost. They would be handy tools for the novice players, including me, but they would reduce the awareness and multitasking necessary to play this game, which many of us value as good qualities (if you ask me, the addition of a chronoboost expiration sign was already a bit too much).

I dont think it would be such a big deal to have an optional show worker count like you can in replays. After all we have ingame timer now! It is not like it would stop most of bronze to cut workers overnight atleast. Anyway the best way now to find out how many workers you have is to band box all the mineral workers and see in the middle if you got 2 rows full for each base.

22/05/2012 19:40Posted by Hatred

Such a device would be helpful, yes, but is detrimental to the overall gameplay because it doesn't reward those able to keep their cool during the heat of battle, and more importantly - it doesn't innately punish those who aren't.

It's not my suggestion.

But anyway, I don't think it is about rewarding people for knowing how many workers they have. Yes, after a big long battle at multiple points across the map I could trawl over the whole map looking for every SCV I have still standing and counting them all up to realise that I took a lot of casulties (and at the moment that is what I have to do) but why not have this number displayed? I can find it out anyway, it just takes a long time and SC2 is fast paced.

As a counter example why have supply displayed when people can just count their Ovies or Depots???? Why reward those not able to keep their cool and remember how many depots they made?

Look at it another way, supply is divided between workers and army. Why should the supply counter indicate only a combined value? Isn't it much more intuative and informative to have the supply counter neatly indicate what proportion of used supply is workers and what is army? So rather than have it display 120/132 have is display 120(47)/132 where the (47) is the number or workers.

I haven't seen a valid objection other than people saying this is too much easy information, which is a subjective matter of opinion (which doesn't make them wrong of course, perhaps it is too much easy information).