StarCraft® II

The only one talking nonsense is you spirit. We are discussing a topic, even arguing, whereas you try to stop the discussion from taking place.

No no. I am not proposing it. I am proposing we wait and see how the meta game develops. I am proposing we wait for solutions to be demonstrated rather than talk about them in a hypothetical manner where nothing can be proven and no conclusion can be reached.

Please stop this bull!@#$. And PLEASE start to think what i could mean before you misinterpret me once again. You gave an example of how the metagame could develop, thusly basing the argument that we should wait and give it more time. What i meant was that you simply were repeating what i already have said, as well as using it as evidence to support your theorem. I wanted to poke a hole in the illusion that a discussion is useless, because I had already proposed this and wanted comments on it. You used it is an example of why we should not discuss it, because the metagamge could develop, when i already had used it as a topic of discussion and wanted to argue with fellow players about how it could affect the game.

I don't see a problem with the forums being used as a tool to discuss how the game could or should develop. In fact, that is what i think the creators intended to be one purpose for it. It is not absolute, it is a place for discussion and i am sure the balance team would want the oppinions of the gamers throughout the periods between the patches.

Creep is a delicate element that shouldn't be tampered with.

Zerg need it for both early & lategame engagements but above all, they need it for map vision. How else are they to scout and react to an opponents movements?

"I haven't tried it but I know it won't work, here is my theory-craft that PROVES it."

I'm done with this nonsense.

You're taking one loose example, that worked because of circumstance and surprise tactics, and using it to substantiate a broad statement. There are so many variables of adaptation between players that Blizzard has to take into account when making a patch. I send out lings when I get my pool done. I use queens and overlords to scout as well as my lings. If I see him move out, I make an extra pair of lings. That bunker would be lucky to be placed, let alone stay there, if I was playing in that game.
The hellion timing would just mean I'd have 2-4 queens fighting off hellions and sniping SCV's. It'd be more costly for terran to do that bunker push that it would be benefitial.

You're talking just as much nonsense as us, you're just not as lazy when finding one or two replays or pictures of it.

Zerg need it for both early & lategame engagements but above all, they need it for map vision. How else are they to scout and react to an opponents movements?

Very true, but what happens when the zerg gets too much advantages in ZvP and ZvT?

Did you hear of a patch recently? In it, the Zerg race got a 25% increase in speed to their overlords, a change that imo was too much. The Zerg do not! have a problem with scouting.

Let me put it like this. You argue that the Zerg should have instant knowledge of the enemy movements at all times. That they should get this automatically. Protoss and Terran do not get this scouting opportunity. Ok, who am i kidding, terran does with their scans, but these are expensive. Protoss have the observer, but it's not like we can spam 5 of them at one time... Why should Zerg have free instavision all over the map when other races don't? Why can't they have 1 or 2 tumors less vision?

21/06/2012 10:39Posted by JohnnyBoy

Creep is a delicate element that shouldn't be tampered with.

They already did with the queenbuff. Are you saying they should restore the range to it's original value?...;)

Reduce overlord vision, increase queen speed by 10%, decrease range to 4. That's what I would test. It sounds good to me, but I don't know how it would do.
I don't know how well that hellions could kite the queens with that sort of stat on them but I know that the overlords dying randomly on the map was all that annoyed me. Overlord scouting when the overlord was actually able to get to the enemy base was always fine for me since the gas timings would give away a lot, the unit counts would, and not everyone is amazing at hiding their buildings from overlords.

21/06/2012 18:07Posted by KaNwA

Reduce overlord vision

Sounded stupid at first, thinking a slight decrease in speed would be better.

Then i started to think about it and i realised that the main reason i dislike the speed, is that the overlord will be at my nat. very soon, allowing the zerg not to dronescout and still always see my nexus going down early (i love to go nexus first when pooltiming allows me). But i am also disgusted by that the zerg can have unlimited vision of my natural until i get out an observer and take out the overlord, with some buildorders, it is impossible to include an observer before the zerg know EXACTLY what i am doing, and i lose the game, because of the overlord. With a smaller vision, i would be able to hide my tech more effectively rather than announcing I am going for blinkstalkers, or whatever.^^

21/06/2012 18:07Posted by KaNwA

increase queen speed by 10%, decrease range to 4

Interesting changes that would promote micro, (Which i love) i won't say my personal oppinion on this and instead let the balance team consider this one.

Turns out Blizzard balance crew agrees with me. Even though the changes are off from what i proposed, they saw the same problem as i did, and suggested their own solutions. I never said my suggestions were absolute, i saw a problem and suggested ways in which it could be adressed. Like i said, i'm posting here again when they are addressing the problem.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359152

Don't wanna be a douche, but, I told you so.

//Daveathor