StarCraft® II

12/06/2012 19:40Posted by Legend

The viper seemingly being able to pull sieged tanks and large units is just ridiculous.

It's just as ridiculous as Phoenixes lifting sieged tanks, really.
The Viper wouldn't be useful if it couldn't pull massive units.

i really like the new units and concepts presented, with one exception:

the warhound

now i have no problem if it turns out that a unit has very limited use in a specific matchup, but designing a unit from the beginning with the intention that it is never to be built in TvZ is not good in my opinion, i hope we see some changes so it can actually fulfill a role against zerg as well.

also it could use a slight visual overhaul, it looks weird, as in assembled out out scrap parts in a hurry weird.

back to compliments:

widowmines: finally mines in sc2 <3, these will provide awesome moments for viewers and players alike, be it the terran who can kill a lot, or the opponent who micros out of the sudden threat.

battlehellion: fills the meleefighter role in the terran army, nice addition

viper: an amazing caster, it will provide many opportunities to be aggressive

swarmhost: zergs sieging, constant pressure without losing units? hell yes =)

mothership core: what a cool way to have the mothership stay and provide early to midgame utility! (not sure about energize tho scary full energy templars after warpin <.< but recall / purifier is certainly good stuff)

oracle: harrass and cloakingfield in one unit makes for really interesting possibilities
(either block minerals, or cloak your warpprism warpin for more surprise! or just cloak your army later)

tempest: low dps, high range, i like that it does not add to the army strength but serves as a surgical striker instead, adds more variety.

Oki, I have't realized how much more usable are hydras with more speed; so even zerg has got a new strat; they can go mass hydra instead of mass roach; seems better, coz now they can repell even air.

For terran mech; getting more helions and going for more moech won't still change terran strat. Zerg will just don't go for lings, just like don't do now if terran goes for helions. And mech still seem to do equally bad against roaches and hydras as it did before?

Or you suggest base-trade as new terran strat?

We might have get one rax and send it in a corner of the map early game, turtle like a cray untill we have mech-death ball and than go for mech base-trade all in :). How fun would such strat be? I guess not much. Infestors will still be able to paralyze or even mind-control mech units while vipers can pull them away from the front line to reduce the terran power.

I do agree that new units (viper) shift zergs a-move into more micro oriented play. Especially if paired with infestors and mutas which is a positive thing.

But I don't agree terran has got new strat. Mech might be somewhat better against lings, but now it got one more counter to those that already exists for zerg.

Also removing reapers bonus to building bombarment makes them uninteresting in the late game too. That probably isn't big deal since most ppl don't make reapers late game anyway, but their building bombardment capability does make them good for sudden harass late game; especially TvT.

Sure u can heal one reaper, but what use if it can't kill a single drone when on full hp? At least make them light in production by reducing that build time which really is ridicolous long now.

Now when queens have buff range, and most of zergs have learn how to repell bunkers with few drones, there really is no use for a reaper other than scouting of the map. There are also more than 1 queen now, so they can even transfuse; it would be counterweight to give reaper either more firepower or shorter build time so one can have few without sacrificing too much of its defense early on.

12/06/2012 20:50Posted by SDream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-i8s0ipII

After watching that wow, just wow.....Terran gets a bunch of utterly useless !@#$ whilst protoss and zerg get some shiny new (lethal) toys.

12/06/2012 19:28Posted by Kapeselus

Also, in the last balance update we shared we stated that we don't see any race as the weakest currently

I want some of what your smoking. Latest win rates below :

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343147

actually thats one of the worst statements i have read. Have you ever hear of Starcraft: Broodwar?

There terran was mech, but that playstyle required the absolutebest control of out all three races to carry that playstyle efficently.

Have you ever played terran? if you play mech you need to do these slow pushes where you siegesneed to be spread good use antiair properly siege only part of ur tanks when anothers are taking their ground.

The way why mech didnt work in WOL was their immobility, because you just couldnt defend whit it. You will be spread way too thin if enemy goes like blink stalk/mass muta etc.
Even mass bio in large maps, were close to impossible to pull off.

SO do your research and don't put comments like this here pls.

TBH thats one of the worst statements i have seen.

It's true, we had to be a bit safer with giving terrans as many new options as the other two races, but there is a good explanation for it. We feel that they are already a more complete race in WoL and we had to go easy on giving them a lot more variety.

One area where terrans currently slightly lack in our opinion is the viability of mech play, which is what we are addressing for the most part from the design perspective. We are also trying to tweak some other things, like the reapers. We feel you'll agree that they would use some love.

I agree with this. Terran is now most complex already and it's reason why it requires more micro to work. Adding units that make core play better is just what is needed. This should bring balance to close for each race. New units for sure gets worked for balance when frames are settled.

About mech play. In 2v2 this lack of viability as mech shows hard. If you face for example Terran, Protoss team it was allways more difficulty to face it because both requires so different unit aproach make it good. I just hope tanks are not getting too much counters as they already have lot of troube against protoss. Reapers are good unit but it just feels there is no room anywhere to acutally train them.

I'd really like to know if SC2 is going to have different ladders for HotS and WoL because I'm really worried this upcoming player split which often isn't very good.

Terran doesn't seem to be receiving anything with a wow factor, where Zerg gets viper abduct, and the ultralisk bury charge, Protoss having mass recall. The Terran updates just seem mediocre in comparison.

Still, I'll most probably be playing Zerg come the expansion given it looks like so much fun.

What's with Thors in HotS? Do they stay? I was hoping warhounds will replace them, but it seems they are ground-ground only.. I don't like thors now and can't see how they would be better in hots, they make terrans ugly :\

If Thors are now ground only. How will terran deal with mutas??

As i thought those widowmines leaps a little when enemy gets close. Now im convinced their gonna kick serius butt. We did get to see how bad the tanks are against a viper army. LOL even more faith has to be put in the Viking to secure victory now. Im confused thought at seeing regular thors ? Wasnt they scrapped in favour for Super Thor requiring a fusion core?

Well im happy terran will be able to shut down all early/mid gamepushes with the mines , but then probably has to rush for raven to detect all those hosts.

13/06/2012 21:19Posted by Jonzen

Well im happy terran will be able to shut down all early/mid gamepushes with the mines

How would that go? Mines take 10 sec to detonate. In those 10 secs opponent can crash units into your troops, or he might avoid mines all together; so how would mines stop all early/mid pressure?

12/06/2012 16:52Posted by Kapeselus

. We are also trying to tweak some other things, like the reapers. We feel you'll agree that they would use some love.

With regards to the repear "upgrade" I know it's not final or probably even close, but my opinion on the current idea makes the repear even worse. I like the healing, don't get me wrong, but I still don't see much viable use for them...

This is amplified in getting rid of the speed upgrade.
In TvZ if we go repears in a matter of seconds lings which are a lot faster than them, will easily surround them. Also, one spine crawler in a mineral line will well shut down repear play, and because of the vs building buff is gone, they will get shut down.

TvZ stalkers are going to own them, with warp ins and cannons, they will still not work. they may kill one or two, but it's not worth the gas, and building time. Which is why I think why repears arn't used. They just take too long.

TvT. Tanks.

Lol. I really dont know how buffing the raven and ghost will change the whole game around. Instead, it will give terrans more toys to play with and to have fun with and to make it actually viable.

15/06/2012 16:30Posted by Something

Lol. I really dont know how buffing the raven and ghost will change the whole game around. Instead, it will give terrans more toys to play with and to have fun with and to make it actually viable.

I don't think it would be limited to just Ghosts and Ravens. Having any unviable units is obviously a bad thing, so if I were Blizzard, I'd either try to rework them (as they did with the Mothership or the Hellion) or replace them (Carrier –> Tempest).

15/06/2012 17:47Posted by LaosOman

Lol. I really dont know how buffing the raven and ghost will change the whole game around. Instead, it will give terrans more toys to play with and to have fun with and to make it actually viable.

I don't think it would be limited to just Ghosts and Ravens. Having any unviable units is obviously a bad thing, so if I were Blizzard, I'd either try to rework them (as they did with the Mothership or the Hellion) or replace them (Carrier –> Tempest).

But the thing is, right now we dont know if seeker missile will break the game or not because its rarely used right now cause it costs too much energy.

Only way of buffing ravens is to reduce cost of raven by 50 gas and time of producing by 15 seconds.

It will cost then 100/150 and would be produced in 45 seconds. This will make Raven more viable unit.

I would add additional ability to Raven - Glue Missile - 75 Energy - slows all units in area of 4 for 25 seconds by 35%. (only speed)

15/06/2012 19:53Posted by eXeTimelog

??? ATM Raven are becoming a standard late game ZvT unit. Seeker missile is good vs clump of units like infestors/broods and sometimes corruptors, and PDD is good too minimize corruptor and occasionally queen damage.

True but it still requires 3-4 mining bases and time to execute it. The map it was used is now going away with season 8 so we will be seeing it less again I believe. Even so it's can be good and useful there is still these chances opponent can win game just avoiding all seekers. Storm and funglal gives far more accurate control to one who uses them.

Whauh! You have 3 races where one is already weaker than 2 others, and you choose to improve those 2 others :).

By giving pretty much no new strats to terran, you are making terrans less interesting to play for people. Don't u realize that people will switch to one of two other races and game vill become less flavored, more predictable and thus less interesting.

If the amount of Zerg players I have encountered this season is any indication, it seems people already have switched.