Topic
Mech vs toss
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I know mech doesnt work against toss of so I've been told but I'vs started playing terran again and found mech play a little bit better than bio(I cant marine split to save my life) and I want to know if its possible to go bio mech against toss using marines to focus down immortals and the thors and tanks to mop up everything else and using the ghosts emp to keep the thors energy low
Any advice at all welcome but please substantiat answers so I actually understand why it wont work and if there are no ways to get this to work please give alternatives if possible and please don't say bio thanks :D |
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Mech against toss is certainly possible, but it's not very easy to get the hang of it.
Basically late game you want hellions, tanks and battlecruisers, but getting there through the midgame is the tricky part, since the protoss will just crash through you unless you defend strongly. There's a thread here with info, replays and advice videos http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323003 |
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well you still have a problem with chargelots. cuz chargelots owns marines, site tanks and thors (un microed) you can't really studderstep with you marines. then your thors and siege tanks will be left alone and focused down.
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You can not go mech vs toss... tanks get owned by nearly every unit in the Protoss arsenal (except sentries) ... helions suck vs speed lots and worse vs stalkers. Immortals absolutely rape tanks and thors ........ RAPE tanks and thors. HT's feedback owns thors too.
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tip do not use stim when you are facing storm or collossi it brings their health down and the extra dps is gone before you even used it.
when attacking put a building in front of their ramp so your sieges can pound them for free for a few sec. This is what helps. I know the TvZ end all-in is a hard nut. But it can be easy as pie. |
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Mech in TvP is possible, but bio is simply just better. I have seen ByunPrime go bio mech in TvP several times, but he is one of the best terrans in the world and has some of the best all ins/two base timings. Bio mech is really hard to pull of in lower leagues because of the lack of map awareness etc.
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Here's a replay of me winning a mech TvP on Ohana
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ek37t43eqb9xoxq You see the basic idea - get marines and tanks to be safe early on, then add hellions and thors later. Be very cautious when attacking, and just harrass if possible. Use buildings to create choke points. It's a slower, more methodical style than bio. Also - the pressure is not on you to attack - it's possible (preferable) to sit back and wait for the Toss to come to you. And before anyone says anything, yes my opponent wasn't very good. But then I'm not very good either - it's a gold league replay - but there are plenty of master level replays in the link I provided earlier. |
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Edited by Cybugger on 18/06/12 23:48 (BST)
Mech in TvP is possible, but it has to huge weaknesses.
1. 2 base Immortal timing pushes. They hit around the 9-10min mark, and you will die. Do not go mech if you see something like a 1gate 1robo expand on 2 gases. Your game will end, and quick 2. Warp prisms. The best drop unit in the game. Since mech is so immobile, if your opponent is smart, he will warp into your main, and either FF your ramp, or push at your front as soon as you unsiege. The only way to really make pure mech work (i.e. Hellions, Tanks, Thors and a few BCs) is by having, ironically, brilliant Ghost micro. Use your ghosts to take out the shields on immortals, and EMP your own Thors and BCs to avoid that damned Feedback. Ghost/Hellion/Tank/Thor is a very potent mix. Chargelots get turned to ash by blue flamed hellions with upgrades (even more so with an EMP in their face), and a standard Stalker-Colossus ball with run into a tank line, and know what true firepower is. |
Nice post. The OP is in bronze. Two base immortal timing pushes do not hit at the 9-10 minute mark in bronze. I get your point here, and probably at diamond you'll have 9-10 minute issues with people doing lean, crisp build orders. In bronze though you can probably concentrate on reactoring out marines early on (and getting a few banshees).
Agreed you need to be careful. Although it's happened to me a few times, I've only had small drops to deal with. Putting a sensor tower to cover the back of your base is just generally a good idea in all matchups - opponents are less willing to move into it (even if in reality you never look at your minimap). Also it's good practice whenever playing mech to cover the back of your bases with a turret ring (overlapping turrets). |
Mech in TvP is possible, but it has to huge weaknesses. Cant thors break through FFs, would slow pushing with the tanks work and how effective are tanks vs stalkers they seem to shrug off too many shots before they finally fall |
Hellions are better vs stalkers than vice versa acctually |
that could actually work really well when I think about it :D too bad it requires a lot of micro tho. |
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Because feedback comes before strike cannons.
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Edited by Remus on 21/06/12 14:42 (BST)
sort of like the Terran ling(marine)/bling(tank)/muta(banshee). Interesting idea. Chargelot/Archon does get very difficult to deal with, probably, though. No matter how you spin it you will always need ghosts against toss, lol. And just to mess with Toss. I have been thinking about a Proxy thor. It isn't new but you pretty much never see it. You wall off with a rax and build marines. But you proxy the factory and the armory somewhere. Build a couple (2) of hellions and the way it timed itself against a computer you can even proxy a rax with half a dozen marines before the thor finishes. Move out of your base with 5 or 6 SCV's and time it that they arive at the natural when your thor finishes. Your +1 mech attack finishes at roughly the same time as the second thor. In theory it all checks out. He saw you build a rax and a bunch of marines so he's not very likely to mass immortal in response to that. Thors stomp on forcefields and is very strong against stalkers and 2 hellions and 6 marines deal quite well with zealots. Like I said i've only tried it against a hard computer 2 or 3 times but the timing seems pretty decend, and computers never go for a macro style. Even though I hate cheesing I kind of chuckle at the thought of trying it some time in the future |
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Edited by FredFredFred on 21/06/12 21:20 (BST)
EMPing your own Thors is just horrendously expensive. Cheaper to unload Strike Cannon on destructable rocks or even your own units than to get ghosts and EMP them. Or build a rax and get all your Thors to unload strike cannon on it
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Hmm I read about EMPing your own thors but the thing I do not understand is why terrans do not use the strike cannons more often. They absolutely shred immortals. And you can of course EMP or snipe the templars.... While strike cannon is active it shuts down the thors for about 9ish seconds where it cant move or attack nothing but the cannon's target while leaves the thor vulnerable |
