Topic
Need strategy help (ZvP, diamond)
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Ok, I really need help, so simplify I'll ask my questions like this. Only for diamonds:
1. When I do 3rd hive, counter to protos expand, I always get crushed around 10th minute, protos first attack, I can't defend it. How do I defend it without spines, coz otherwise he will go natural.?? 2. When I was platinum i beat protos so easily, even when i was top and played vs diamonds, now i can't do !@#$. Last 20 games i lost 18, 2 games i ling bane 8th min bust. Please, can diamond players write me some strats of how to beat protos. I can't do %^-*. Only diamonds please. |
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Edited by GroundZero on 03/07/12 17:10 (BST)
Asked for diamond coz i can beat platinum protos, but can't diamond. seems they play a bit diferently.
Thanks i will check it out. all other comments are welcome. |
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Edited by libik on 03/07/12 17:25 (BST)
Are you able to be maxed before 12.minute? If not, start private game and just train it.
The attacks around 10.minute are very hard to defend, but you can do it. The point is to fight at open locations and try to surround your opponent so he is not able to cut your army in half with sentries force fields. You actually has three bases against two bases, so if you can keep fighting long enough, you win. Very helpful is, if you are able to creep spread with creep tumors a bit, so you are faster when fighting (if it is possible, try to fight ONLY at creep and go back when you are off the creep). The usual build order : 14 pool 15 hatch ~22-24 hatch at 6:30 take three gases. at 100 gas upgrade to lair and build roach warren and building for upgrades. When building for upgrades is finished, upgrade missile attacks Upgrade lings speed (someone prefer to do this upgrade first). When lair is finished, take 4. gas, upgrade roach speed (very important). You can build a macro hatchery. When all bases are fully saturated (it shuold be around 8:00), you should start massing units - as many roaches as possible and if you do not have enough gas, lings instead. Remeber, that bases with 3 and more larvas dont make additional larvas production at their own, so you should try to use all your minerals and gas to units. Sometimes, if there are a lot enemies, you can run to your base with your units and wait for reinforcement and you can let opponent to damage your hatchery a bit (if half of his units attack hatchery meanwhile you attacking his units, you have a huge advantage) (btw : I do not have good score right now, because I was trying some funny strategies with terran, but I was even in masters for some time) |
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it's always 14 or 15 pool into 16hatch, 20-ish hatch with queens and 2-6 lings.
You can't really go Hive without a 4th base so don't try it unless you can secure a third base. 7 minutes, scout for protoss gas. If not on 4gases, make a spine and a ton of units. Only units. You can add spines if you need to but it's not usually a necessity. |
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Wow guys, thanks a lot. This works so well. I just beat 2 protos in a row. I owned last one so badly....
I think my main problem was i built 3rd hatch right after second. :D |
That's mega early. 150 minerals after you've built your first queen, and reached 21 supply, send a drone out to the third base. Should work out around 4:40. If you've went with skipping the second queen in favour of a faster third base, you get the third at about 4:30. |
I Lol'ed, "mega early". Yeah sure. When do you take urs? |
lol... are you even reading his response, or just the first sentence? He answered your question exactly in what you are quoting! |
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Edited by MrWoxocs on 08/07/12 12:36 (BST)
As you can see, the other guy wrote "around" 4 min. 4.30 is around 4 min. - "Around 4 min." - "That's mega early, it should be 4.30." You get it now? |
As you can see, the other guy wrote "around" 4 min. 4.30 is around 4 min. Around 4 min can be deceptive though. Also, I said at 4:40 when you skip a queen. Nice quoting skills. If I take it at 3:50, that's still "around 4 min." However, that's a stupid time to take it because, you'll be cutting drones and a queen to get it. I say my timings in 10 second periods because it's far more accurate than minutes wise. If I say around 10 minutes, that means "between nine minutes and 11 minutes." For example, you get your evo chambers no later than 7:05 in ZvT but no earlier than 6:50. There's a time scale which is based off of your opponents timings rather than "Around 7:00" which could be anywhere between 6:00, and 8:00 which would be far too early or far too late. Giving a more accurate timing slot, makes it far easier to do and explain basic timings. |
As you can see, the other guy wrote "around" 4 min. 4.30 is around 4 min. That was mega...unimportant |
You were implying I didn't know what he meant. I was telling you why I said what I said. It was for the benefit of the op. They'd try to place a hatch at 4:00, have to either cut queens, or drones, or they'd think they were really, really bad if they couldn't do that. You stating
was really unimportant but you did it anyway. |
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i know how you feel man. i had the same problem recently.
i solved it by taking 1 gas much earlier on, and researching ling speed long before lair. that way i can be active with my lings, kill that proxy pylon and probe, and slow the protoss army down, giving me more time to defend. also, surprisingly, hydralisks are godlike at that stage of the game. before the collosuss are out, about 7-10 hydra's coupled with your roaches can destroy gateway/immortal balls very easily. drop the hydra play after that though. also, i started faking baneling all ins. showing him a baneling nest, and leaving about 10 lings in front of his base. his first reaction is PANIC, and invest into a thicker wall, more cannons, more sentries. meanwhile you just do your thing and macro like a boss and win from there. now i feel i have a much better change against that first push. |
