Topic
lol?
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But you had way to many, you should had left supply for broodlords. And you wasted so much gas on those corrupters. When you have broodslords you don't need corrupters, because colossus can not kill broodlords anyway. Good to kill the mother ship though!
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Well, you could had enough units, but the micro could be lacking. You need to be careful with those forcefields, cause those can really mess you up. Versus FFE, it all depends. Sometimes it's hard to tell but the protoss can go for a third or an attack. If you see chrono boost on forge (fast upgrades) or on cybernetics core it usually means early attack. Same goes for 4 gases. Could mean several things like, Sentry/immortal all in, air, DT's. You should never stop scouting. Scout with overlord, with zerglings, always keep an eye out for what he is doing. If you do not feel safe, well, start making units, but like you did in this game, you made so many units that did nothing. You invested in so many roaches but they were at home, not doing anything. Try to poke, and irritate the protoss, make him feel unsafe. Try not to let him max out, always be there and poke him. This will make him mess up in many ways. Miss warp-ins, miss chronoboosts, forget upgrades, forget probe production etc....
Make drones as long as you feel safe from what you've seen, but remember, even if you feel safe, it does not mean you are safe, which kills many zergs who makes to many drones. But eventually you will be able to read the protoss. Not by reading different builds, but playing alot of them and knowing and remembering "AHA, this other protoss started out like this and he eventually went very early colossus". This is how we all learn, from experience. If you make units, do something with them, or else, make drones and get a huge lead. Try to engage always far away from main and bases. If you let protoss come to you make spines! Because, it will be hard to re-inforce when protoss is right in your base killing everything that is coming from the larvas. If you fight him far away, you have enough time and hopefully resources to make a new army. |
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The beggining!!!
You really should be able to be fully saturated at ~ 8:00. Look at youtube to stephano max and train it at single-player game without opponent. You should be able to have 200/200 army before 12. minute mark - and you can just "a" move win ZvP with this. The biggest mistake - dont take this early gas. You should take 3 gases at 6:30 and 4.gas after finishing lair. You lost 4 drones to the gas at 4:00. If you keep them alive to this 6:30 (actualy 7:00 because of building time of extractor), you had 4 extra drones mining for 3 more minutes. One drone gather ~ 40minerals per minute. 4*40 = 160 per minute, 3 minutes = 160*3 = 480 minerals more at 7:00!! The third should be taken at 22-24 Upgrading armor at spire is pointless. Stalkers have high damage with slow attack rate. In late game - you DONT need corruptors to kill the collosus. Just have enough broodlords and protect them with roaches. You should have enough infestors too, but I am not sure, if you can use them well at your level (they are fragile and expensive). If not, just make more broodlords |
The biggest mistake - dont take this early gas. What this man said. Imo you should get 2 Gasses at about 44 supply and more later but that's just me. Unless he's going for a 4-Gate. If he's going for a 4-Gate you should get Gas earlier for Metabolic Boost and Roaches, yes. Though Queens are so strong i question if you actually need the Roaches but whatever. Without the early Gas you can get your third a lot faster. |
haha Omg dude you had this game so won.. I'm just going to list the ways you could have ended the game: 1. Your initial scout revealed a very poor walloff. You going have gone mass Speedling (with some Banes if need be) and end the game right there. 2. When the Protoss first attacked (and you saw his entire army coming) you could have got it easily surrounded on creep. If any of that army was left after that, your reinforcing Roaches would smash it. Instead you sent half your army through the choke with the rocks and the Toss fried that. 3. You made 12 Corruptors, but didn't shoot any of the Colossi down? Why lol? Those Corruptors would have killed those 3 Colossi 100% even with the Stalkers shooting at them. After that, cleanup the pitiful rest of his army with Roaches and go to his base, gg. It's like you were afraid to kill his Colossi... |
In my humble opinion you shouldn't do that. Once you get a sizeable amount of Roaches you should attack to keep the Protoss on low tech. Stephano attacks at about 160 supply of Roaches, he doesn't wait for max. The reason for that is the Sentries. If you wait too long he gets a lot of Sentries. Once those things get full energy (that takes some time) he can forcefield all day. You had the Protoss so outmacroed you could have engaged on the open, sacced those Roaches and replace them quite fast. No way that Protoss army survives that. The trick is to get a surround in the open. If he puts too many forcefields, backup a little and let him waste his Probes energy. When you go for mass Roach you have to strike first imo. |
If I remember the replay right he did not outmacro the protoss. He made alot of units instead of drones for some reason. Maybe being scared of an attack. While the protoss kept expanding. This does not mean you are outmacroing the protoss, this means the protoss is outmacroing you. |
Well, you could had enough units, but the micro could be lacking. You need to be careful with those forcefields, cause those can really mess you up. Versus FFE, it all depends. Sometimes it's hard to tell but the protoss can go for a third or an attack. If you see chrono boost on forge (fast upgrades) or on cybernetics core it usually means early attack. Same goes for 4 gases. Could mean several things like, Sentry/immortal all in, air, DT's. You should never stop scouting. Scout with overlord, with zerglings, always keep an eye out for what he is doing. If you do not feel safe, well, start making units, but like you did in this game, you made so many units that did nothing. You invested in so many roaches but they were at home, not doing anything. Try to poke, and irritate the protoss, make him feel unsafe. Try not to let him max out, always be there and poke him. This will make him mess up in many ways. Miss warp-ins, miss chronoboosts, forget upgrades, forget probe production etc.... that's quite the reply to a well elaborated OP. Did you know you can power Los Angeles for a week by the amount of energy wasted on forums all around the world? |
He did outmacro the Protoss. Pausing the replay at 14:30, at the time of the Protoss first attack, we have: Zerg: 61 Workers 5500 minerals / 1615 gas army value, 200/200 supply Protoss: 49 Workers 3825 minerals / 2275 gas army value, 145/ 158 supply Both on 3 base. Zerg would probably be best served by attacking at about 160 supply to minimize Sentry energy and use open terrain for a better engagement. Also would probably easily deny the Protoss 3rd base. |
Haha, okay! Funny, I think.
I agree that it would had been best to attack and do something with the units, I do not agree that the protoss was being outmacroed. A protoss going for a third, that is scary. Also, 200/200 on only 60 drones is not optimal. Remember that most of that supply is from roaches that easily take up alot of supply. Like we can see, they did not spend their resources correctly and protoss usually do not max fast because of the unit composition they are after which usually crushes a late max roach army (immortal, colussus, sentry, stalker, zealot.) |
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It's a whole other strategy but early muta's vs a ffe works very well too. His army is really slow due to his own wall so when he is able to attack your muta's, you killed all his workers and are already gone. Then, when he is in his main, you can harrass perfectly with lings. Really really annoying for protosses and that's why it's so fun to do :D
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Tips on this game please? Good game. 3 things: - Versus Terran, you can open straight 15 Hatch 15 Pool in any maps in the current ladder pool. In fact, it's safer to do so (even against 2-Rax) than opening 14 Pool because the creep will help you against Bunker deployments. - You need to catch the Terran army in the open and surround it before it reaches your base. You can do this if you see it coming. So, you must keep spreading creep the whole game. Quad or even Six-Queen openers are great against Terran for this reason. - Ling Ultra doesn't work without Infestors because as you saw, 3/3 Marines are vicious. It has to be Ling Infestor Ultra. Also you need all the upgrades on the Lings, including the Adrenal Glands. I think your macro was fine. The hard thing is keeping it all together in the later stages. |
