Topic Zergs overpowered? PvZ is messed up? Discuss.
First of all: Zerg player get out of the thread. Nobody blames you for defending your beloved ownmachine with theet and claws, but having a side qq and an other side spamming "u nobz l2p zergs r micro required gtfo" is not the point of the thread.
Pointed that out.. Hello fellow protoss players. I've been playing for a month or so now, mainly with protoss. I'm having next to no problems in PvP (i usually 4gate 1gas and i hardly get pushed back), some slight problem with terran rushes but i hardly lose vs terran on long games. Yet, when i get PvZ i rather all In mass probes than playing a long, failing game locked with my units on my mineral line unable to get an exp.
So, here's the problem. Zerg units are about as strong as other races' units. Just they are cheaper. And they can do a load of them at the same time. Without multiple barracks/portals/we, of course.
So, my typical game consists in nine probes, pilon & scout. Spot 8pool. Portal forge 3 cannon. Lings come. Lings go home. At this time my tech is behind 3-4 mins for the 450 minerals wasted in cannons. Still i manage to get a gas, do a few warp gates. And maybe secure an exp. Scouting with a zealot i see some roaches, nothing new. This is where i give up most of the time. Why? Because next step is obivious. Mutas, classy classic! If i eventually decide to try it, i build a few cannons on my mineral lines ( as if cannons were of any use after a few unit upgrades.. ). Too bad that with a cloud of mutas flying around it's hard to secure a third base, and with one almost depleted mineral lane and one exp you can hardly get enought resources to build both immortals for roaches and templars for mutas. Meanwhile the creepy crap droolIng jerk secured his sixth exp. Yeah, secured. Wich means he's got 30 mutas on the very opposite side of the map ready to get there in 6 seconds in case of danger. Should i be able to wreck his army, never fear! For with his six hatcheries and queens he can get an other 40 mutas/roaches ready in TEN. SECONDS. FLAT.
Zerg sure are 20% cooler than other crappy living species on the universe.
Zerg are have the best harrass unit in the game, wich can also be used to secure bases around the map. They got early game control with lings and roaches, midgame map control with mutas and late game ownage machines like broodlords and ultras, and to wrap everything with some fun stuff, they're the only race with failproof muta harrass counter (fungal growth anyone?).
So, after my load of qqing crap, i'm asking for guidance! How do my fellow blue skinned high as !@#$ templars beat he crap.. The creep, out of the little ( or even enormously gigantic for the matter..) brown %^-*ers? Gimme some tips! I give ya cookIes in excange! Trust me!
I understand you. i can help you but I have to see some replays of your gameplay against zerg. then I can advise you.
You have only played 88 games. There are lot's of things that you don't know. The game balance is just how you explained in your thread. zerg has to have good harass units, good economy and cheap units.
zerg is the race which has to attack all the time and protoss is the race that defend very very well.
1- Scout very well
2- Scout early rushes and respand
3- Study timings, builds of zerg
4- Place units in the towers.
5- wall off your bases. so deny zergline can get into. leave a space that only a zealot can fit.
6- protoss has the most expensive units so, you should play like so cartful and keep every single unit alive
7- it is true that zerg can make mistkes and come back from behind. as a protoss you are not allowed to make mistakes.
Edited by Atheos on 20/07/12 18:51 (BST)
First, thanks for taking some time to answer this pewee.
My main problem is Exactly what you said in point 7. Early 8pool forces me to wall with 1 zealot and 2 cannons. Lings comes, see i blocked, go back to base. As simple as that. They lost 3 drones from their economy, big deal. I lost 400 gold in 2 cannons and a zealot. That's 8 probes, or money i could have used in something else (core rush and stalkers to press their exp up their asses maybe? )
To be noted: they still got their lil lings group to defend, so i can't harrass his drones with my zealot without granting him a violent demise. Basically a failed 8pool !@#$s me economically more than it %^-*s him!
Edited by Moonshadow on 20/07/12 20:41 (BST)
Why don't you try being aggressive, instead of waiting for the long term game?
Zergs in bronze league rarely do something very clever, they like rushes and harassing because that's what gives them free wins.
Don't be scared of investing in cannons, they can pay for themselves very fast if you put them in strategic positions.
Why don't you try being aggressive, instead of waiting for the long term game?
Can you define "strategic position"? Because if you mean cannon rush, sorry mate, but creep. And "cannon containment" fails as soon as they get a couple of roaches.
Thanks for the constructive comment. But nevermind, i excepted wisdom pearls from zergs in such a thread.
Problem is: Most of zergs 8pools or 6pools, forcing me to build early forge/cannons, wasting more economy than what they actually waste failing the rush. By the time i manage to get a few warpgates on, since i got crapslowed by building cannon and forge early, they already have roaches. (2x cannons 1x forge 1x zealot to block are 550 minerals going in heaven's crap just to avoid loosing !@#$ing probes) I will try for voidray double stargate as soon as i get a chance to have a game, that should put a good finger up the little roaches' %^-.
Few replays of games going like you've described and we can tell how to deal with the situation.
I'm not sure if 1st gateway (@12 supply) is up when 6pool comes, but if it is just run with your probes while chronoing out 1st zealot, with that and probes (15ish?) you should be abe to hold 6 lings with relative ease, I think you could even follow that with gasless 1gate expansion. But saying again that I'm not sure what you have up when 6pool hits, ofc its later on long maps like daybreak, and on 4 player maps, unless ur opponent got really lucky. Might be that this piece of advise was piece of creep if I didn't remember timings right.
And this is true. If you improve your play at all in a month you'll probably be able to kick crap out of any1 of these guys. It is not balance. It is you (not meaning that it is you only :D this is true for all of us lower than hihg masters)
It will be better if you add a replay of your Game that you speak off,
The only thing i can give you advice at:
When Zerg 8 pools - Dont make 3 Cannons , 1 will be better
even he gut an army so early, his encomy is weaker
means you can tech, drone more them him and do a timing push : 6 Gate Robo , 8 gate,
blink timing attack, and other builds
meh, I've given up on WoL actually, the only thing I'd play is custom games and maybe some teamgames, I've stopped caring about 1v1 since it's just:
PvZ: Z: Stephano build. P: FFE
ZvT: Z: 15 hatch into ling infestor. T: reactored hellions into (usually) mech play (or just marine tank)
ZvZ: Both: X pool into banelings
I'm just happy with that hydras are effective again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv-i8s0ipII&list=UUZ2h0d4tP0R8klduwj-_bDQ&index=1&feature=plcp
you seriously lack imagination
Strategic position can be: at the top of the ramp, 2-3 cannons WITHOUT walloff can inflict a lot of pain on the zerglings
In the middle of the mineral lines, surrounded by other buildings, behind the mineral lines.
In places where they cover a lot of potential harass targets and where they can't be taken out easily=strategic position.
Sure you can use them for offensive purposes too, like denying their natural/third, but that's up to you.
Edited by Nagas on 21/07/12 09:48 (BST)
you see, you know zerg very well in bronze.
So, my typical game consists in nine probes, pilon & scout. Spot 8pool. Portal forge 3 cannon
If you know what your zerg opponents tend to do why dont you counter it beforehand?
If I would knew that most terran will two rax me I would place 1 spine in my natural as soon as posible.
Is this rocket science?-NO
roaches this roaches that....muta best unit blah bleah... I have more than 900 wins and still dont know how to micro mutas, and u want to know how to defend agaisnt it after 90 wins? GL
now this is just mean, I dont know how old are you but FU :)
Zerg here. umad?
Im master Resist with gosu wloss, am i allowed to QQ that Z is op? :(
Atheos, add me ill teach you A good build order in PvZ, my code is 321