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Why it cant have this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOxfIapsrJs&feature=player_detailpage#t=60s ?
Maybe then it could still be in Hots, cuz now tempest looks sad.
Also why you can't have dark archon when combine 2 DT's, or if you combine HT and DT you get some kind of hybrid.

I cannot understand blizz removing carrier whitout even trying to do something to them since carrier has had 0 patches.

It is only removed from melee games. Does it really matter so much? I have not seen ANY game where protoss would use carriers. Carrier is still in game but just can't use it in melee games. Same as like firebats. you can still use those in custom maps and such.
tbh I can't see why u want to keep unit that is not used. ''Why not just add 10 useless units to every race?'' wouldn't that be fun?

EDIT:

03/08/2012 11:04Posted by Nizes

I cannot understand blizz removing carrier whitout even trying to do something to them since carrier has had 0 patches.

Think tempest as carrier that got fixed and new model. Unit that works well like vs colossus and tanks and broodlords

The point is that instead of removing a useless unit. Blizzard should try to make the unit useful. Lowering the build time and allowing the carrier to move around while interceptors are out would be a good start. Just SOMETHING other than removing it. The biggest issue I have is that David Kim said in an interview that he didnt see a place for the carrier in the Protoss arsenal because it was too much like the colossus (long range, high damage etc.). So what does blizz do? They add ANOTHER long range, high damage unit as a replacement for the carrier that still overlaps the role of the colossus.

Why?

It is only removed from melee games. Does it really matter so much? I have not seen ANY game where protoss would use carriers. Carrier is still in game but just can't use it in melee games. Same as like firebats. you can still use those in custom maps and such.
tbh I can't see why u want to keep unit that is not used. ''Why not just add 10 useless units to every race?'' wouldn't that be fun?

Ummm what? I've seen Carriers used many time in the pro scene.

It is only removed from melee games. Does it really matter so much? I have not seen ANY game where protoss would use carriers. Carrier is still in game but just can't use it in melee games. Same as like firebats. you can still use those in custom maps and such.
tbh I can't see why u want to keep unit that is not used. ''Why not just add 10 useless units to every race?'' wouldn't that be fun?

Ummm what? I've seen Carriers used many time in the pro scene.

May you give me a link of some of those games?

I have seen them to, in ZvP.

Ummm what? I've seen Carriers used many time in the pro scene.

May you give me a link of some of those games?

I use carriers quite frequently. In 2v2, and 3v3 my team mates and I use resource pooling to rush carriers as a mineral line harass, while we occupy ground forces with a conventional push. It's particularly useful against zerg, as they have little in the way of anti-air in the early game, and you can ensure they don't get a hydralisk den up, or any spore crawlers, simply by paying attention and targeting well.

I admit, I would rarely use carriers in later game because they drop like flies against any real opposition, and they are very expensive, but I think they have their place occasionally.

May you give me a link of some of those games?

I use carriers quite frequently. In 2v2, and 3v3 my team mates and I use resource pooling to rush carriers as a mineral line harass, while we occupy ground forces with a conventional push. It's particularly useful against zerg, as they have little in the way of anti-air in the early game, and you can ensure they don't get a hydralisk den up, or any spore crawlers, simply by paying attention and targeting well.

I admit, I would rarely use carriers in later game because they drop like flies against any real opposition, and they are very expensive, but I think they have their place occasionally.

Team games.. and silver/bronze.. you could use in those games ANY campaign units and win lol... I mean silver/bronze team games are pretty much wait 20min so u get 200/200 food and attack -> let see who's units counter who's.. I would love to see you using carriers in + gold leagues. It is just fact that carrier doesn't have any real role. Since what ever is the case colossus are just better and even still if u want to go air mass voids or phoenix would still be better

I use carriers quite frequently. In 2v2, and 3v3 my team mates and I use resource pooling to rush carriers as a mineral line harass, while we occupy ground forces with a conventional push. It's particularly useful against zerg, as they have little in the way of anti-air in the early game, and you can ensure they don't get a hydralisk den up, or any spore crawlers, simply by paying attention and targeting well.

I admit, I would rarely use carriers in later game because they drop like flies against any real opposition, and they are very expensive, but I think they have their place occasionally.

Team games.. and silver/bronze.. you could use in those games ANY campaign units and win lol... I mean silver/bronze team games are pretty much wait 20min so u get 200/200 food and attack -> let see who's units counter who's.. I would love to see you using carriers in + gold leagues. It is just fact that carrier doesn't have any real role. Since what ever is the case colossus are just better and even still if u want to go air mass voids or phoenix would still be better

Last season we were doing this in gold league, so I disagree.

Also, there is no need to be rude. Cut the "zomg, bronze and silver league... you may as well press random buttons" nonsense, it just makes you look like a prat.

Like it or not, the majority of players are going to be playing in bronze or silver league, so even if this only worked in bronze and silver, it's still going to work in the majority of games that people will play.

I was merely stating just one application of carriers, and no, I don't think colossus could achieve the same goal in this particular scenario.

nvm

Ummm what? I've seen Carriers used many time in the pro scene.

May you give me a link of some of those games?

Cant find the VODs but EG.Suppy lost to them in ROG cup yesterday. They are getting used more and more against BL/infestor.

+ This ''anti-air in the early game'' Since when you get carrier in early game? Any decent player can counter carrier so easily...

We resource pool gas so that we can fast carrier. We can have carriers in an opponents base within around 7 minutes or so, on a fast run, and they usually cause enough damage to cripple at least one player, and they frequently end the game then and there.

Like I said, we usually use this as fairly early aggression against Zerg to deny them the resource advantage that they need to win games. Most Zerg that we play against are not automatically teching towards hydralisks this early, especially when we deny them scouting info, so they don't really have an anti-air counter other than to pop up spore crawlers.

Even if we only kill off the drones, it's worth our time and resources simply because the zerg has to use their larvae on more drones to quickly restore their economy, which leaves them light on their feet army-wise, even if they have some resources, allowing us to do some pretty serious damage with our second wave.

The reason colossus are not as good in this scenario are as follows:

First of all, the zerg usually has units which can kill the colossus, unlike the flying carrier, which can remain safely in the skies. The colossus really needs the thermal lance upgrade to be relatively safe from attacks, and that's very expensive and hard to get this early.

Secondly, colossus often cannot head straight for the mineral line, as many maps have the bases on cliff faces that drop off into a void. This means colossus have to come in from a side, giving the opponent some time to come and rescue the workers. Furthermore, the colossus is going to have trouble coming back in through that entrance, as it's obviously going to be guarded from then on.

If we have to state a further disadvantage, the colossus has to walk across the map, leaving it vulnerable to potential attacks, if the zerg has opted to be aggressive. It might never reach the base, where as the carrier has the benefit of skirting the map, avoiding detection.

Finally, a carrier can go overlord hunting, unlike the colossus, which can only attack ground units.

Carriers have their uses, of that I'm pretty certain.

04/08/2012 21:41Posted by Meraxes

+ This ''anti-air in the early game'' Since when you get carrier in early game? Any decent player can counter carrier so easily...

We resource pool gas so that we can fast carrier. We can have carriers in an opponents base within around 7 minutes or so, on a fast run, and they usually cause enough damage to cripple at least one player, and they frequently end the game then and there.

Like I said, we usually use this as fairly early aggression against Zerg to deny them the resource advantage that they need to win games. Most Zerg that we play against are not automatically teching towards hydralisks this early, especially when we deny them scouting info, so they don't really have an anti-air counter other than to pop up spore crawlers.

Even if we only kill off the drones, it's worth our time and resources simply because the zerg has to use their larvae on more drones to quickly restore their economy, which leaves them light on their feet army-wise, even if they have some resources, allowing us to do some pretty serious damage with our second wave.

The reason colossus are not as good in this scenario are as follows:

First of all, the zerg usually has units which can kill the colossus, unlike the flying carrier, which can remain safely in the skies. The colossus really needs the thermal lance upgrade to be relatively safe from attacks, and that's very expensive and hard to get this early.

Secondly, colossus often cannot head straight for the mineral line, as many maps have the bases on cliff faces that drop off into a void. This means colossus have to come in from a side, giving the opponent some time to come and rescue the workers. Furthermore, the colossus is going to have trouble coming back in through that entrance, as it's obviously going to be guarded from then on.

If we have to state a further disadvantage, the colossus has to walk across the map, leaving it vulnerable to potential attacks, if the zerg has opted to be aggressive. It might never reach the base, where as the carrier has the benefit of skirting the map, avoiding detection.

Finally, a carrier can go overlord hunting, unlike the colossus, which can only attack ground units.

Carriers have their uses, of that I'm pretty certain.

Tbh I don't get what your enemies are doing if they let you rush for carriers? decent player would have already rushed and killed you. Deny scouting information vs zerg how? Zerg is game best race with scouting I don't get how u can prevent it. you use tier 3 units for denying economy? I really don't get what kind of games you are playing.
I am sorry but I just somehow can't take you seriously I really want to see replay one of your carrier games.. If you want to show me your replay of those carrier games where zerg doesn't get anti air O.o

i don't understand why the carrier needs to be replaced with a whole new unit.

from what i've seen from the tempest, it seems to have 2 functions:

1. anti-air AOE attack
2. air-to-ground long range attack

so instead of replacing with the tempest, why not just give the carrier:

1. a new secondary weapon, which does AOE damage against air units only.
2. a range increase with the interceptors, so it can attack ground units from a long distance.

truth is, we just prefer the look of the carrier over the tempest. so just give the carrier the same functions as the tempest instead.

Tbh I don't get what your enemies are doing if they let you rush for carriers? decent player would have already rushed and killed you. Deny scouting information vs zerg how? Zerg is game best race with scouting I don't get how u can prevent it. you use tier 3 units for denying economy? I really don't get what kind of games you are playing.
I am sorry but I just somehow can't take you seriously I really want to see replay one of your carrier games.. If you want to show me your replay of those carrier games where zerg doesn't get anti air O.o

I play with a Terran. We obviously block off the ramps, and marines take good care of overlords. The Stargate obviously gets hidden somewhere that is hard for the overlord to reach.

During the build, you can still get out a few zealots while getting out carriers ASAP, so with marine and marauder support, you can hold off most early rushes. Also, not all zerg rush... It's usually beneficial for zerg to get that fast expand and then deny expansions for their opponents. If they go for a fast expansion, and we see it, we know we can do some serious damage.

The reason this works early in the game is that it's really unorthodox, and based on what our opponent can see in the terran and protoss army they meet at the ramp, it makes no sense to go for hydras. Why go for hydras vs marines when the marines have the upper hand and the benefit of a defensive position? Why go for sporecrawlers when the opponent is clearly amassing a ground army? Most people just wouldn't bother. If everyone was building spore crawlers and missile turrets in every game then there would be no such things as Dark Templar rushes, and Banshees would be the least used unit ever.

You seem to really lack imagination... Just because something is unorthodox doesn't mean it's not effective.

EDIT: Also, sorry, I don't have any replays from any of my team games. I've been focussing on 1v1 this season, since my team partner is abroad and doesn't have the time, or a good enough internet connection.

If you try that in a slightly higher team league, what will happen is that your opponents will just kill you accidentally long before you get your tech out.
I have gold/plat teams, and when I play with them I go stuff like 7 warp prism charglot drop and speedprism immortal+phoenix with great success. I have swiped marine armies with double starphort phoenix. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The lack of a carrier makes me despondent :(

I play with a Terran. We obviously block off the ramps, and marines take good care of overlords. The Stargate obviously gets hidden somewhere that is hard for the overlord to reach.

During the build, you can still get out a few zealots while getting out carriers ASAP, so with marine and marauder support, you can hold off most early rushes. Also, not all zerg rush... It's usually beneficial for zerg to get that fast expand and then deny expansions for their opponents. If they go for a fast expansion, and we see it, we know we can do some serious damage.

The reason this works early in the game is that it's really unorthodox, and based on what our opponent can see in the terran and protoss army they meet at the ramp, it makes no sense to go for hydras. Why go for hydras vs marines when the marines have the upper hand and the benefit of a defensive position? Why go for sporecrawlers when the opponent is clearly amassing a ground army? Most people just wouldn't bother. If everyone was building spore crawlers and missile turrets in every game then there would be no such things as Dark Templar rushes, and Banshees would be the least used unit ever.

You seem to really lack imagination... Just because something is unorthodox doesn't mean it's not effective.

EDIT: Also, sorry, I don't have any replays from any of my team games. I've been focussing on 1v1 this season, since my team partner is abroad and doesn't have the time, or a good enough internet connection.

You are playing vs some really bad players.. zerg could have just used banelings/speed lings and destroyed your wall and finish you off or just get mutalisks faster than you your carriers. Tbh I would like to play one 1v1 against you I want to know how good you really are.