StarCraft® II

Infestor

Developer
Posts: 16
I want to be as clear as I can on our current position of the Infestor in Wings of Liberty.

- We are not going to make any changes before BWC.
- We are going to continue to watch games and gather data.
- We will discuss changes.
- We may try a balance map sometime after BWC.
- We may try some changes in Swarm Beta, using that as a test-bed for stuff we could bring back into Wings of Liberty.

At this time I could see these as possible outcomes:
- We nerf Infested Terrans, Fungal Growth or both.
- We make a change to the Infestor (hit points, movement speed, etc.).
- We do a change to how the unit is designed (add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, increase the visibility of burrowed units while they are moving, etc.).
- We buff some of the potential counters (EMP, Feedback).
- We do a combination of any of the above.
- We see something that makes us decide that doing nothing is the right answer. Obviously if this occurs we would share this data or reasoning.

For those of you who believe that this is too slow a response, I am sorry.
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,440
Wow a response from the man himself. Awesome! Maybe this will silence some of the whiners.
Reply Quote
Posts: 6
Dustin, maybe this can help you to make decisions on Infestor:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=380798
Reply Quote
Posts: 317
Hey, Blizzard? Why didn't you do all this pussyfooting when you made a serious and fundamental nerf to Protoss, removing the khaydarin amulet upgrade? The general consensus of the pros is that the game is more imbalanced now than it's ever been.

One standard for Zerg, another for Protoss. Probably because David Kim is a Zerg.
Edited by Demilich on 11/11/2012 17:17 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 2
yeah same for Terran nerfs.
Thor nerfed after a WEEK, in the middle of TSL3.
Ghost nerfed after a month.

Infestor? Let's wait 6 months and let zergs win all tournaments first.

Double standards much?
Edited by Laurens on 11/11/2012 17:23 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 40
The good way, I'd love to see Fungal Growth getting a projectile again. It's a super powerful spell so it should be harder to pull off. So it rewards the tip top players.
Reply Quote
Posts: 7
We do a change to how the unit is designed (add a projectile back to Fungal Growth, increase the visibility of burrowed units while they are moving, etc.).

This proves that blizzard is listening, this was mentioned in the TL thread. Thanks dustin.
Edited by RiSky on 11/11/2012 17:25 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 16
Thanks for the transparency, its something we need more of.
Reply Quote
Posts: 218
yeah same for Terran nerfs.
Thor nerfed after a WEEK, in the middle of TSL3.
Ghost nerfed after a month.

Infestor? Let's wait 6 months and let zergs win all tournaments first.

Double standards much?


Ya, i guess their learning from their mistakes as balancing just before a major tournament is stupid but then again having a huge imbalance in a major tournament is stupid too.
Reply Quote
MVP - WoW, StarCraft II
Posts: 17,720
Thank you for taking the time to respond to the Infestor concerns, Rock. <3

Also great seeing developers post on EU forums. ^_^
Edited by FeralWorgen on 11/11/2012 17:30 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 48
It 's too late, the game is no more fun, the map is zerg friendly, they say terran need pu pressure at the beginning, but terran cant do it with those queen and loooooooooooong map + creep.
Just let the game die to reborn in another expansion which i may not buy.
And yeah Ghost was nerf to the the point that i seldom see them use in pro level play, but infestor is use in every zvx match, this is fair game.
Reply Quote
Posts: 188
Mother of god, it's about time ಠ_ರೃ -> ಠ_ಠ
Edited by Poehalcho on 11/11/2012 17:36 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 3
Why is there no mention of looking at the fact that FG roots. This is something that's be listed as a concern over and over again by amateurs and pros alike and the fact that it isn't listed here worries me.
Reply Quote
Posts: 36
Thank you so much for describing the current thoughts on the matter. It puts the mind at ease for those at doubt, especially after recent interviews.

As for suggestions, one I hoped to see on that list was:

-Decrease the size of the infestor (EMP/AOE hits more infestors, punishes clumping and bad positioning)

It could fall under: "We make a change to the Infestor (hit points, movement speed, etc.)."

As the infestor is extremely large for being a ground-based spellcaster, this would be a good place to make a change as well as all the options mentioned in the original post.

Thank you for the transparent communication Rock!
Edited by Masayume on 11/11/2012 17:43 GMT
Reply Quote
Developer
Posts: 16
Thank you so much for describing the current thoughts on the matter. It puts the mind at ease for those at doubt, especially after recent interviews.

As for suggestions, one I hoped to see on that list was:

-Decrease the size of the infestor (EMP/AOE hits more infestors, punishes clumping and bad positioning)

As the infestor is extremely large for being a ground-based spellcaster, this would be a good place to make a change as well as all the options mentioned in the original post.

Thank you for the transparent communication Rock!


Yeah his ground size is sometimes a weird kind of buff. Especially when trying to tag him wtih EMP.
Reply Quote
Posts: 33
A nerf to infested Terrans or fungal for the time being should return Zerg late-game to the 'not completely broken status'.

I think what really remains the issue is how fast Zergs can enter the late-game without taking substantial risks, at the end of 2011/early 2012 ZvT was amazing, but I think after that queen buff + overlord speed buff, Zergs were able to skip a lot of the safety measures that the other two races have to take (building units that require larva and building static defences that require money and drones as investment).

Infestors are a major problem in the late-game, but I think the reason why we haven't seen them as a problem as much until now is that transitioning as Zerg always had an element of risk, and you had to decide whether to make drones, or to make units. Now Zergs can make mass queens to defend light harassment from banshees and hellions/marines, and use 100% of their larva to improve their economy, creating a massive lead over the other two races with little to no risk involved at all.
Reply Quote
Posts: 72
Nice to hear.
I understand that you won't make any change until the end of BWC.

Here my opinion about Infestors changes:

- Fungal should be a projectile. So it would be possible to dodge it (like a storm or an EMP), and making a Raven would be useful in mid-game (and in late game to protect your Vikings against Fungal). Zerg would have to snipe PDD to Fungal properly, and since it would be a projectile, landing a good fungal would be a little more difficult than an instant spell.

- Infested terran shouldn't benefit from upgrades.

- It should be easier to see a burrowed unit moving. Even the best players never see it.......

Edit: About modifying Infestors size, I don't think it would be needed if you make of Fungal growth a projectile.
What I think would be the best thing to do! If Fungal growth was a projectile it would allow micro to dodge them, PDD in late game would allow Terran to protect their Vkings (so BL/Corruptor/Infestors wouldn't be as OP as it is right now), and there would make Fungal growth more skill dependent as it is right now.

Also it's important to note that during the beta, while Fungal growth was projectile, the spell only did 4.5 dps!!! Now it does 9 dps and 12 dps vs armored units. So it's 2-3 times more powerful than during the beta.
Edited by RIPeace on 11/11/2012 17:50 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 54
Thanks for comment - it is nice to know delvelopers listen to the community.
As Terran I am really looking forward into possible Infestor change.
Reply Quote
Posts: 33
Thank you so much for describing the current thoughts on the matter. It puts the mind at ease for those at doubt, especially after recent interviews.

As for suggestions, one I hoped to see on that list was:

-Decrease the size of the infestor (EMP/AOE hits more infestors, punishes clumping and bad positioning)

It could fall under: "We make a change to the Infestor (hit points, movement speed, etc.)."

As the infestor is extremely large for being a ground-based spellcaster, this would be a good place to make a change as well as all the options mentioned in the original post.

Thank you for the transparent communication Rock!

This is also a buff, don't forget; one of the downsides of the infestor as a unit is that it is clunky, that's one of it's only weaknesses. Making the infestor smaller means that it can traverse the battlefield easier and can manipulate battles a lot easier in the late-game due to their small size (less unit collision).
Edited by Ino on 11/11/2012 17:46 GMT
Reply Quote
Posts: 33
Nice to hear.
I understand that you won't make any change until the end of BWC.

Here my opinion about Infestors changes:

- Fungal should be a projectile. So it would be possible to dodge it (like a storm or an EMP), and making a Raven would be useful in mid-game (and in late game to protect your Vikings against Fungal). Zerg would have to snipe PDD to Fungal properly, and since it would be a projectile, landing a good fungal would be a little more difficult than an instant spell.

- Infested terran shouldn't benefit from upgrades.

- It should be easier to see a burrowed unit moving. Even the best players never see it.......


I actually never thought about the projectile side of things; ravens would finally have a purpose other than praying for a good HSM or using PDD to soak up corrupter fire. However this would still leave Protoss at a big disadvantage in the late-game.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]