Battle.net

04/02/2013 17:33Posted by Dayvie

Spore buff vs. bio (maybe 15 +15bio)

This will not work at all, when mutas get in large numbers (20+) they can instant kill the spores and some extra damage will make no difference. The problem is that zerg anti air units are complete garbage. (consider hydra air buff?? or some sort or air aoe ability)

Another possibility is remove the hydra 'light' affix to reduce baneling damage against them.

On a side note i must congratulate you its one of the first times the eu has received a post before us, well done.

You have to buff the hydralisks. Our AA is way too weak against airtoss and we also need other options than Muta in ZvZ....

Hydralisk is the worst option of the 3 tech paths in ALL 3 gamemodes (ZvT,ZvP,ZvZ) and you haven't fixed it yet, like what the !@#$!? Infestor is still strong and mutalisk is a way better option in both ZvP and ZvZ.

(I'm diamond in WoL, Master in HoTS)

Don't know why the battle.net says I'm gold but I can prove I'm dia.

http://www.sc2ranks.com/eu/1531459/Muuke

Instead of buffing the Spore, buff the hydra.

Hydra is supposed to be beat Mutas, they can't. Low HP, and you need 2 upgrades to beat mass mutas.

No changes to hellbat/medivac boost or oracle beam?

Well, that's surprising.:|

zerg do lack anti air MAYBE if viper is enable to attack Air to Air.

What about Corruptors changes (lame corruptor spell according to Dustin Browder / issues with Skytoss) ?
What about Nydus Worms changes ? (all-in, cost too much)
What about Swarm Host changes ? Do you still think we need to learn to play ? This post by Cloaken was rude : http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7350535414?page=18#345

It's BETA; you need to fix theses game design issues before it's too late, you won't have time / priority on these when the game will be released.

the developer suggested changes will have to be played first but they are good in theory
nerf the oracle attack vs light in beta to find out how it will turn out cauz way too good and also one can fix the use of the oracle once static defences are placed.

Terran/Protoss already got their scouting buffs, and we felt Zerg could use one too.

Witch scouting buff did terran got ????

04/02/2013 18:11Posted by Krystof

Witch scouting buff did terran got ????

reaper

04/02/2013 18:14Posted by Shishir

Witch scouting buff did terran got ????

reaper

I wanted to say medivac with boost:))

But yea, reaper.

As a terran i obviously like those changes, since they dont affect me, I think in general it is awesome that you guys are trying to solve mirror match problems in ways that do not affect the other match ups.

Also I want to add that HOTS really is a big improvement from WOl in my opinion. in the beginning of the beta I was highly skeptical but things are shaping up great actually.

I think swarm host, hellbat and widow mines are awesome new units that open up a lot of strategic options.

Buff hydra! Spores are useless against mass muta. Besides, we need better hydralisk against buffed air toss.

04/02/2013 17:33Posted by Dayvie

Therefore, we think a +bio buff to Spores will only mostly affect Mutalisks to make room for ground based strategies in ZvZ. And we're hoping this gives us more room to nerf Fungal Growth a bit more. We feel units like Mutalisks, Hydralisks, or Ultralisks received significant buffs in Heart of the Swarm that it's probably ok to tone down the Infestor a bit more.

I respectfully disagree; but thanks for the post Dayvie.

The problems hydralisks have vs mutalisk is not an in-base problem.

The problem is because they require two upgrades before you can even move out of your base. This means the mutalisk player can expand freely. There is no way for a Zerg player to read the game and punish a zerg player going mutalisk; that is the real problem.

Even once you have your two upgrades, they are still generally quite weak; this is reflected in Zerg's struggles vs Skytoss too.

Buffing spores doesn't really help this very much.

I find it interesting that you think hydralisks have been buffed enough. They are only really viable when combined with vipers because they are so fragile. Yet at Blizzcon you guys said you wanted to improve zerg's tier 2.

When you consider how coinflippy SH is and how hydralisks are only useful after 2 upgrades and vipers; I would be interested to hear what your thoughts on how well you are achieving this goal.

Overlord speed upgrade moved down to tier 1

This is a nice change, i've had a couple of "build order losses" on 4 player maps where I simply haven't been able to scout something in time; which is very frustrating.

i think oracle is imba now
why? 1 oracle may kill a 10+ drones in 20 seconds and even a dog may effectively use Oracle

Overlord speed upgrade at tier 1 sounds fine.

spore +damage to bio seems... well a bit like trying to fix symptoms again...

How about making the hydralisks even faster with speed boost instead?
Or give them a little bit more range?
Or finally changing the fungal into something new? for example damage without rooting OR root/slow without damage but larger AoE (great to catch mutas and drops).

oracle envision 60 seconds - well how about giving revelation the ability to mark cloaked units?
that would at least require some skill and would make revelation a great ability.
Having the oracle turn into an observer for 60 sec and having the revelation ability in addition to that seems... bad.

I think that the oracle feels a little too much like a dt now, it's some kind of sneaky all or nothing unit. would be cool to have less damage in exchange for more health or range so that it can actually be used in a fight in the mid-late game.

May I use this opportunity to suggest a form of dedicated community feedback page for gathering suggestions and feedback on game balance?
that would certainly help the balance team and give the community the chance to feel that their opinion is valued.
It would also be great to get some feedback from blizzard to some of the community suggestion that seem great but appear to be ignored. Can you please consider this?

04/02/2013 17:33Posted by Dayvie

HotS has given a lot more tech options to all three races, and we feel scouting is more important than ever. Terran/Protoss already got their scouting buffs, and we felt Zerg could use one too. Keep in mind this isn't as crazy as it sounds because you still need to spend the extra 100/100 resources as well as 100 seconds to get this upgrade in tier 1.

Zerg gets all the scouting needed as it is. This is a pointless change. It's completely inviable as an investment due to both the fact that it's a massive cost and the fact that you get enough scouting with normal overlords and ling scouts now.

We think in ZvZ Mutalisks are a bit too dominant right now.We're realizing the Fungal Growth nerf was too much vs. Mutas and potentially not enough vs. other units.

Therefore, we think a +bio buff to Spores will only mostly affect Mutalisks to make room for ground based strategies in ZvZ. And we're hoping this gives us more room to nerf Fungal Growth a bit more. We feel units like Mutalisks, Hydralisks, or Ultralisks received significant buffs in Heart of the Swarm that it's probably ok to tone down the Infestor a bit more.

What?... What even?
Fungal growth isn't even a problem in any matchup anymore aside from it being too weak in ZvZ for roachhydrainfestor to actually be viable.
You're buffing spores damage vs bio. That's just going to mean that low number muta count wont be that great. Doesn't say anything for when mutas can one shot spore crawlers. Then you're back to square one due to the fact that your hydra count wouldn't ever be able to dent the muta army cost effectively due to the regen of mutas mixed with their acceleration.

Unless you play it out perfectly (which is a big if) this matchup will end up still greatly favouring muta vs muta play.

it is awesome that you guys are trying to solve mirror match problems in ways that do not affect the other match ups. Also I want to add that HOTS really is a big improvement from WOl in my opinion

I second that

Overlord speed upgrade moved down to tier 1

It sounds interesting. It could make scouting pre-lair little less random. And it might be good to get this upgrade sooner instead of getting overseer after lair, and scout at similar timing. And all your overlords would become more mobile and you could scout for the rest of the game little more and hopefully we would see little more spreading creep with overlords. I think it would be good change.

Spore buff vs. bio (maybe 15 +15bio)

Mutalisk play would be still the way to go. But it could be little easier to turtle and not straight up die, when you have less mutalisks. That would be good.

As mentioned above changing hydras would be better way. Right now they are still big investement and die very easy to lings, banelings and even to mutalisks. More HP and possibly range would help. I don't think any buff would make hydras too strong in any matchup. So far anything that shoots at hydras counter hydras :D

Fungal missile speed down a bit more

Fungal was nerfed enough. It's necessary in the lategame ZvT, when terran is going bio and Z is trying to not go broodlords. Not connecting with fungal equals to losing everything, because without them bio can just kite ultralisks and you won't get any shots off. Sure it would be nice to have little more micro around fungal growth, but stopping enemy units from moving is absolutely necessary. It can already get hard when terran is splitting his units or/and kiting back, since infestors aren't that fast.

Oracle Envision duration increased from 30 seconds to 60 seconds

I don't know. I haven't seen this spell used at all. So I guess it needs to better.

PS: I hope those aren't the only changes you are looking at. Mainly skytoss (voidrays) and hellbat drops need to be looked at. They are bigger problem than this.

i think oracle is imba now
why? 1 oracle may kill a 10+ drones in 20 seconds and even a dog may effectively use Oracle

Unfortunatly that is true, but if you get prepared, those 2,3 oracles are useless and you are behind, so yes, a change needs to be made.