Cataclysm Post Mortem — Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street

Cataclysm Post Mortem — Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street

As part of our World of Warcraft: Cataclysm post mortem series, we sat down with World of Warcraft Lead Systems Designer Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street to talk about his thoughts on World of Warcraft: Cataclysm.

 

Q. What were your main goals going into Cataclysm?
A: Westfall was a seven-year-old zone with seven-year-old trees and seven-year-old quests. It naturally felt old. It felt tired for players going back to level up an alt, and it wasn’t inspiring for new players coming to the game. We just felt like it was time to give all of those old 1-60 zones some attention again. Beyond that though, we wanted to update the classes at low level as well. The spell flow, by which we mean the level you get certain spells, just hadn’t aged well. You would get some very group-focused buffs at low level and some powerful leveling tools at high level, which would have made more sense reversed. There were some specs that just weren’t functional at low level before because they lacked the damage abilities or tools to effectively solo. Similarly, we took a look at all of the quest rewards at 1-60 because some specs just didn’t have adequate itemization to support them.

A second goal, from the systems design point of view, was to improve the class talent trees. We thought the trees had become bloated with filler instead of legitimately interesting talents. We also embraced the notion of class specialization to a much greater degree, by letting you choose your spec formally at level 10.

We also knew we needed to provide more content to players focused on maximum level, which meant we couldn’t just re-do 1-60, but we had to provide questing zones, class mechanics, and new PvP and PvE content for players who would be at level 85 too.

Finally, we wanted to deliver all of this content more aggressively. We know players can only wait so long for something new to do before they start to get bored. This has been a goal for some time, but it has been a challenging one for us. When you compare the graphic fidelity of a raid like Firelands to an older raid like Molten Core, you can imagine how it takes both more time and more people to make a raid these days. That’s exactly the opposite of what we want to be doing though, which is providing players content at faster rates.

Q. What do you think worked best in Cataclysm?
A. We’re really happy with the 1-60 revamp. Each zone looks amazing, we improved their quest flow, and they all have a story that has a (hopefully) meaningful climax, often with a blue item reward. Zones that didn’t have much going on before have an actual plot now, many of which are related to Deathwing’s return. We also did a better job of integrating the dungeons in a zone into the questing experience for that zone, so you feel like you have a good reason to explore them.

We really like how having players choose a spec at level 10 worked out. I’d say nearly every single design decision we make ends up being at least somewhat controversial in that some players agree with them and some players disagree with them — that’s just the reality of having such a large and diverse player base. But choosing a spec at level 10 was as close to universally acclaimed by players as anything we’ve ever done. It just works. You get a meaningful choice early on, and powerful, useful, and fun abilities to go along with it. It leads to each spec having a stronger sense of identity, even at higher level.

We’re pretty happy with the level 80-85 content that we offered. The zones looked great and the stories were good. We offered several new dungeons, raids, and Battlegrounds. Late in the cycle of Cataclysm, we introduced Raid Finder, which provided a new type of content to players who historically weren’t raiders. We’re at the part of the lifespan of the game were some original features no longer have the cachet they used to — you can only roll up so many alts, and by this point you might very well be done with achievements or convinced yourself that that type of gameplay isn’t for you. When we can offer a whole new way to play the game — in this case provide raids to non-raiders — it’s a big win.

Transmogrification is another one of those features — it opened up an entirely new avenue of gameplay. One of the great things it’s done, aside from giving players more tools to personalize their characters of course, is make a lot of old content relevant again. Now players are doing old raids and dungeons looking for Transmogrification pieces, and that’s really cool.

I could name a few smaller features we thought worked out as well. The Justice / Honor badge system in Cataclysm cleaned up the crazy system from Lich King. All things considered, we’re happy with the healing model. We encountered issues with mana being in short supply at lower gear levels and conversely too abundant at the higher levels, eliminating much of the challenge for healers when the content is supposed to be the most difficult, but overall the model did what we wanted, and we’ll be refining it in Mists.

Q. What didn’t work out as planned?
A. Everything else! Seriously though, we tend to be our own harshest critics, so it’s actually easy for us to point out things that didn’t work out as expected.

While zones like Uldum and Deepholm look fantastic, they didn’t fit together as well as we’d have liked. In the planning phases, we didn’t think that having scattered end game zones would be a big deal. It turned out to feel a lot weirder than expected. Players ended up teleporting to nearly every destination, and it gave Cataclysm a disjointed feeling, detracting from that feeling of exploration and discovery. We learned that giving players a land to explore, a sense of place, is valuable. Ultimately, the scattered zones and the portals both served to kind of shrink the world, when we want to make the world a place you want to go out and be in. We’re definitely looking forward to getting back to a continent in Mists. We underestimated how important that was.

In addition, while we liked that each zone has a story, questing ended up being too linear. It didn’t feel like you could fly into a zone, find some quest givers, and explore. Instead, you kind of had to start at the beginning and follow all the quests to the end, and if you didn’t like a quest, well, you had to stick with it to get to the next one. We want zones to have an identity, flavor and a story, but we don’t want to railroad players through a zone either.

The difficulty at which we pegged our heroic dungeons and raids was controversial. They were designed to be about as tough as the dungeons were back in Burning Crusade, but the game has changed since then. Coming out of Lich King, we’d gotten the message loud and clear from players that they wanted tougher challenges. They liked the convenience of Dungeon Finder, but they missed using their crowd control and survival abilities and having to strategize about how to beat a given encounter. We designed the Cataclysm heroics with that in mind, and the players who wanted challenging content were thrilled.

The problem was that we had this whole group of players who felt like they couldn’t make any progress on their characters. Even if they wanted to end up raiding with their friends, they couldn’t earn the gear they needed to get into those raids (especially in the absence of Raid Finder). I don’t believe that the instances were too hard; it’s obvious there are players who enjoy that content. I believe the problem was that there were no alternatives. With such a diverse community, the goal is to have experiences that players from all over the spectrum can enjoy. We don’t want to shut anyone out. So, we’re addressing that with Challenge Modes in Mists. You’ll have normal and heroic mode dungeons, and then Challenge Modes, for players who are looking to prove their mettle. Likewise, you’ll have normal and heroic raids, and Raid Finder for players who don’t enjoy wiping on a boss week after week until they can master it.

While choosing a spec at level 10 felt great, we weren’t very happy with the rest of the talent tree overhaul. We definitely pruned some dead wood from the trees and got rid of some talents that weren’t a lot of fun, but players felt like they weren’t getting anything out of the bargain. Having simpler trees is a good goal, but it would have felt better if players felt like they got something cool in return for losing some boring fluff. Unfortunately, as is the case with many compromises, this one didn’t fully solve the original problems it was intended to solve, while it created new ones.

Fundamentally, taking into account what we’ve learned about talent trees over the years, we’ve come to the conclusion that the talent tree model where you pick up tiny performance increases here and there (and where there’s, mathematically, nearly always a ‘right’ answer and a ‘wrong’ answer) is not a great model. The Mists talent design is a major revamp that should fix this problem once and for all. Talents should be meaningful game-changers. At absolute worst a given talent may be the right one only situationally, and at best, players will have a lot more customization to make their play-style stand out. Furthermore, the fact that you’ll have more flexibility to change your talents should help keep gameplay fresh, even with that character that you play most often.

I feel like I should mention Abyssal Maw again. As with many cancelled features, it somehow took on a life of its own in the minds of players. Believe me, though — you just don’t cancel things that you think are going to be awesome. It was three bosses inside Nespirah, with no unique art. The reason it was originally appealing to us was because we had so many Vashj’ir assets that we could use. But by the time it was time to do the work, we felt like we (and many players) had Vashj’ir fatigue. Now don’t get me wrong — I loved Vashj’ir. I was an oceanographer, remember? Vashj’ir delivered on the promise of an underwater zone, but we feel like most players were ready to be done with it by the time they had quested through that. (Individuals will feel differently — it’s that diverse player base thing again.) Firelands received a lot of new art, from bosses to environments, and we just didn’t feel like Abyssal Maw was going to compete. Who knows, though! We haven’t totally given up on the idea of cool underwater experiences, so maybe there’s potential we’d visit it again someday. (For my money, the zone I am personally saddest about cancelling is not Abyssal Maw; it was the Azjol-Nerub quest zone in Wrath of the Lich King.)

Speaking of raids, we also weren’t particularly happy with how accessible legendary items became in Cataclysm. Multiple characters in a single raiding guild were getting, and worse, expecting a legendary weapon. Legendaries are supposed to be rare and exciting, not a bar you fill up like some reputation grind, and certainly not something you feel entitled to get because it’s “your turn.” Dragonwrath in particular was usable by a large variety of class specs, which coupled with the guarantee to completion, just made them too ubiquitous. In the future, legendaries will be more legendary, perhaps so much so that not every raiding guild will have one. In that model, there might be those who almost, but not quite, complete one, but there will also be those who finish one and feel truly honored.

I have mixed feelings about Archaeology. I feel like it’s a good addition to professions and offers more, and more varied, gameplay than our existing professions. Still, it’s clear that some players wanted more. We wanted Archaeology to be hard to complete. We didn’t want it to be one of those professions you can max out by buying up mats at the Auction House. But random reward systems whose long-term goals are more interesting than the short term ones can feel grindy. Archaeology had too much travel time. It could be punishingly random, especially for players who imagined that it would be a guaranteed delivery mechanism for Zinh’rokh (which was never the intention). Players missed a lot of the lore, which was delivered in the Archaeology journal and not as part of the survey or digging experience. We think the Mists of Pandaria expansion will be really good for Archaeology. Players will be focused on a couple of new races on a single continent, so travel and randomness will be reduced automatically, and leveling Archaeology should be a bit more convenient since there will be more opportunities to dig at a single site. We have other tricks up our sleeve too.

Q. What lessons have you learned and what are some of your top goals for Mists of Pandaria?
A. There are four big goals for Mists:

1) Get players out into the world. We don’t want to totally eliminate convenience, so it’s fine to queue for some features from capital cities, but we also want players to see other players out in the world, questing, trying world bosses, engaging in PvP, and just travelling from place to place.

2) Give players plenty to do. It’s a sad feeling, and a real failure on our part, whenever someone says “I want to play WoW this evening, but I just don’t have anything to do.” Like I said above, achievements and alts were great in their time, and we’ll continue to support them, but we understand the need for new ways to play as well. The new expansion will have entirely new systems, like scenarios and challenge modes. We are designing the initial zones to have features similar to the Molten Front daily area, so you don’t feel like questing is something you finish at level 90 (and so you don’t feel like daily quests are synonymous with ‘boring’ or ‘grind’). We want to make the Pandaria factions interesting. We want Exalted to be something you earn for bragging rights, not something every player has. We are adding a lot of mounts that will be hard to get, and awesome-looking armor that you’ll want just for transmogrification. We’re considering ways to let you increase the number of Conquest points you can earn per week or a way to translate questing into bonus loot from instances. We want to hide lots of cool little things all over Pandaria. Some will offer your character more power and some won’t. And if you really like achievements and alts, well hopefully we’ve got you covered there too, with account-level achievements and a new race and class.

3) Appeal to a broad audience. I’m always surprised by the number of players who want the game to be easier and the equal number who want the game to be harder (and can’t understand why anyone would disagree with them!) We approach the issue in a different way — we think that what all of those players are really saying is that they want content for them. Message received. We’ll be offering Raid Finder versions of all of our raids going forward. We’ll be offering brutally difficult challenge modes of dungeons for players who thought the Cataclysm heroics were too easy. We’re experimenting with some tricky boss encounters for players who loved the hard-mode Ulduar achievements. We want to provide more cross-over between PvE and PvP, for those who are interested, so that it doesn’t feel like you have to play two different games to progress your character. We want to continually add new Battlegrounds, so those players have fresh experiences to look forward to. We’ll provide players with ways to upgrade their gear incrementally, while reserving tier sets for actual boss kills.

4) Get great content out faster. Enough said.

************

We hope you’ve enjoyed this entry in the Cataclysm post mortem series and that this has proven to be an enlightening opportunity to take in our perspective on what worked, what didn’t, and some of what’s coming. If you missed the chance, you can join us in looking back at Cataclysm by checking out the other entries in the post mortem series with Lead Encounter Designer Scott Mercer and Lead Quest Designer Dave Kosak.

Now it’s time to look forward, since we have more to share about World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria coming on March 19. Stay tuned!

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Just my 2 cents for what I think was good and not so good and may be some solutions to problems I see.

I think the revamp of the level 1 to 60 was pretty good. Problem is ofc that from that moment on you first have to play BC and WotLK, before you get back to Cata again. MoP will add a similar problem again ofc. I fear it is nearly impossible to make a continious story from 1 to 90. So we'll be playing Cata/BC/WotLK/Cata/MoP from level 1 to 90. Worse even, if you start a Panda, you'll start at MoP. Of you start a NE Monk, you start in Cata... I see no real easy fix for that, so I hope Blizzard might have some solution for it some day.

Then on the trouble with gear. Gear you say, yes gear is on my opinion one of the biggest issues in Cata. Ghostcrawler said it himself one. "gearpower" is going up exponential. Wich means that dungeons and raids that are hard (and in my view, fun) at the start of the expansion, have become trivial at the end of the expansion. For example, my guild wiped around 70 times on Omnotron (a really good fight imo) before mastering it. Most the wiping was because we were not geared enough. During the FL patch we went back, everybody in full T12 gear to run through the raid. We used one tank, 9 dps and no healer on Omnotron. No trouble at all. For BoT, we used for all bosses just one healer. That feels just wrong, because it means the difference between the tiers is too big imo. We don't do dungeons as a guild anymore, because they have become too trivial. That's a pity, because as Ghostcrawler said, it limits the things we can do in WoW. It makes dungeons and older raids obsolete and only worth going for transmog runs. (I need to get T8 gear from Ulduar btw).

The trouble we have as guild now is we get bored with DS, because it's the only raid we have now. Ofc, there is HC, but T11 HC raids are not that challenging with T13 gear, so you still end up doing DS over and over again (we killed Cho'gall HC after a few tries and he is supposedly the hardest boss in HC mode). And I think it's a waste to make Cata raids and dungeons obsolete during Cata, because some fights are really cool. I liked Omnotron, Valiona and Theralion, Alysrazor and my favorite, Ragnaros.

So what could be a solution? Well, dungeon challenges are a step in the right direction, if I understand Ghostcrawler correctly. Another solution is to add a Tier-level to dungeons and raids. So you end-up having a T11/12/13 level to BWD, a T12/13 to FL etc. That way we would have 5 raids to chose from! And, and that's what Ghostcrawler wants, more things to do in WoW. T13 has only one raid atm, while such a fun raid as BWD is obsolete for T13. (WotLK had the same issue, but in Cata it's worse I feel)

Just another thought about questing. I really liked doing some quests for Dragonwrath. Having to kill bosses singlehandedly that requires tactics was fun. So may be, just may be, it will be possible to have the quests in MoP designed in such way that the quests to understand and follow the story are "easy", but in some corners of MoP there are (repeatable?) quests(-lines) that are pretty hard to do. "Legendary" quests you might say.

To sum it up, the quests and look and feel of Cata are pretty good. The dungeon and raidmechanics are also pretty cool. Having said that, DS normal was too easy...

Talenttree has improved but I look forward to talenttree of MoP. Glyphs are pretty useless, so either get rid of them, or make them something like the new talenttree. They should have impact on the gameplay (not as much as a talent I think, but still, though I like being a stag in MoP as a druid!).

Just my thoughts over Cata.

The direction Blizzard is moving to, more content faster (smaller patches?) is cool I think. I they can make that happen, wow.
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Kaaoss
Ragnaros
Kaaoss
21/05/2012
@Fryg: Love the idea of having tier levels for each raid! stops people getting bored and also the content isn't abandoned because as you said some great fight mechanics and bosses!
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Loganross
Argent Dawn
Loganross
27/04/2012
This sounds really nice!
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
25/04/2012
it does not matter any more who does whate to who...community as we know is gone in this gm's have an helping hand...if you have to wait 15day's before you get any real help.... test it out for y'r self open an game tiket.... 15 day's before you get some...you as a custumor and player do you like this????.....
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Ðrex
Bronze Dragonflight
Ðrex
22/04/2012
To be honest , i think LFR was an extremely bad idea . The way ninjas just roll on items to give them to their friends is just ... Thats' an advantage for them , disadvantage for others . I hate it when people do such things.
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Lóckie
Kazzak
Lóckie
24/04/2012
@Ðrex: Dude, that was an great idea so all could follow the flow with raids. but the badest idea was only 2 raids. if they put firelands, blackwing descent and more raids to it. maybe ppl dosent ninja loot then.
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Badabengbang
Shattered Hand
Badabengbang
24/04/2012
@Lóckie: so y'r a ninja nice to know
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
25/04/2012
not even that if you want to report this abuese you have to wait for 15 day's before they will look in to it ... and we all know whate replay y'll get ....sorry we can't help you
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Janopoie
Emerald Dream
Janopoie
19/04/2012
Some good valid points made by Greg there.. I am glad they can admit what went wrong.. My main gripe was all the cool stuff Greg said about Cata and the heroics being, and I quote - " Heroics are meant to be hard and they are not for everyone, and thats not something we are going to change.. so QQ as much as you want hard heroics are here to stay." end quote -, and yet even after saying that a few people quit in a paddy and they nerf them to buggery..and I am sorry but 'Challenge modes is not the answer imo.. Yes they are a nice addition and I look forwards to them..but they need to do something else as well.. Either that or they need to change the name of heroics..as there really is nothing heroic about them anymore.. they were really good early cata..and I think they wouldn't have been slated as much and nerfd if it hadn't been for LFD/LFG as its only when you get a bad group that there was problems..

In fact I think many problems have come from the Xrealm LFG/LFR.. whether its that feature itself, or the fact that people can get into them so quickly from dinging or a bit of both {biot of both no doubt} the problems are defo related.. Player behavior towards one another, impatients etc.. all has gotten worse since Xrealm LFD, and more os since LFR.. It started way back in Wtolk when it was first introduced.. and has gotten steadily worse.. that is something they really should fix/work on..

Fast tracking to raid level is bad imo.. sure its nice for alts..but those people have been playing for a while and will know the ropes.. but someone new to the game who has some time off school or work can level to 85 now so quickly its unreal, and its so quick now that many levels can pass and you might not have learned your new talents/spells.. may not have used them if you have learned them.. before you know it your at he level cap and haven't used half the abilities in your spell book.. and obvioulsy wont have practised using them.. that doesnt set you up to be great at your class/role.. I knwo people who will roll a new char and level it in the specc they want to play, just to make sure they know it inside out ready for raiding with..Some people might find that extreme, I do myself, but I understand and agree that many people are not learning their class properly any longer..and its due to how quickly they reach the level cap.. Which brings us to MOP.. I really dont like the idea of making all classes really easy to play with simple rotations.. If you want simple roll an Arcane mage.. I cannot remember where i read/heard it.. but I do rememebr hearing they were 'simplifying' rotations and classes/speccs in MOP.. and from what I have seen in the beta, its true, at least it is for the classes I have played.. There are some very nice changes, spell effects look really cool now for warlocks for instance.. I am yet to see a Glyph I like though..and many talents are pretty crap at his point.. I appreciate its very early beta.. My only hope is that Blizz get a GOOD wide range of feedback from players and make really well informed choices regarding the classes/talents/glyphs/speccs.. Onbe last thing.. I know they say "We are trying to aim for a wider audience" I get that, its a business.. what business wouldn't..But I really hope they have learned from the past.. and I have said it before and wil say it again "You cannot please everyone..So please remember and dont try".. You will just lose subs that you already have and have had for years..sure they may get replaced with new subs.. but I will bet many will just leave..I cannot think of one MMO I have started playing years after its launch that I have played fo more than a month....
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Janopoie
Emerald Dream
Janopoie
19/04/2012
@Gosu
Yes, I agree.. {yeh this is an alt by the way, before anyone mentions I have never killed a hard mode}.. The whole DS thing for me felt very anticlimactic.. I really wish that niether myself nor my guildies had done LFR before killing him on normal..it ruined it for me and several oters felt the same way as well.. I guess if you are in full heroic tier from the previous tier then you probably can skip the LFR version.. BUT There is bound to be at least one item in the LFR that will be better than your heroic gear.. meaning that people will want to do it to try and get the item[s] they want.. which means simply staying away from lfr is not really a vaible option.. The only other thing I can think of is having lfr released in stages, like 1 boss a fortnight or somthing.. to give guilds a chance to progress though it on normal first.. again though.. no doubt only the top guilds would have seen the last encounter byt he time the LFR version came out.. so thats not really a good solution.. plus I would thnk many would moan at that.. I really dont know what the solution is.. But I certainly felt nothing like I did when we killed LK.. that fight was an awesome fight, and the lore behind it was fitted into that raid so well {imo].. Even Raggy, when he went down everyone cheered and it felt good.. {damn we wiped on him a lot..rofl } DS though..meh.. and each nerf has made is more and more trivial.. its only 5% but that can mean a lot of difference to some mechanics..
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Tjillin
Argent Dawn
Tjillin
18/04/2012
Sounds promising! I'm really looking forward to MoP and I'm certainly nót playing beta ;). Surprise me when time is there.

And I like the focus on end game too, although reading through the comments I think Badcrit has a very viable point about low level pvp.
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Badabengbang
Shattered Hand
Badabengbang
17/04/2012
well wow is a big place....just one smalle thing....beta mop is out....so why the !@#$ are all game masters playing beta????5day's waiting time to get an replay?????you piss on alot of players this way
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Ruwth
Moonglade
Ruwth
13/04/2012
Greg, one thing I'd love to ask, could we please make tanking specs properly functional in pvp?
I for one adored the prot warrior inn Wotlk....but sadly it is lacklustre to quest with/pvp now. If tank specs have very little damage in pvp, give them more utility AND make them MUCH harder to kill.
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Whô
Bronzebeard
Whô
09/04/2012
Well I think it's great that Blizzard posted something criticising their own work. I'm not gonna sit here and add to their list, because overall I enjoyed Cataclysm and just want Mists now.
But I did kind of agree with the legendary kerfuffle.
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Bradcrit
Kilrogg
Bradcrit
09/04/2012
There is one more issue I would like to add into the mix. Low level battlegrounds. They provide a much needed distraction from questing, but heirlooms kind of killed that... I just rerolled to a new realm, and I have no heirlooms at all because they are all stuck on my old realm.

I get stomped on by people decked out in all the heirloom stuff with NO chance of winning. There was at some point the idea of giving heirloom people, or the ones that stopped their xp gain a separate bg bracket.

I really want to do some pvp as well while leveling, since there's barely anyone to be seen out in the world, even on pvp realms, but as a fresh re-roller I have no chance at a good time, as elemental shaman I hit the dirt in 3 hits from a heirloomed and enchanted warrior.

Some might argue "But hey, Bradcrit, there have always been twinks!!!"
Correct, but the amount of planning and rummaging for gear from low level dungeons wasnt that easy, you could easily misscalculate and level to 20 while looking for gear. This is not the case now, heirloom stuff is so accesible and is mostly better than the dungeon blues that the roles are reversed. Its mostly twinks with a few stragglers caught in the crossfire that get 2-3 shot.

Just my 2 cents.
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Robanybody
Turalyon
Robanybody
09/04/2012
I love the new quest chains although I agree that it needs to be easier to start at different points and dip in and out. What's most important is to have a genuinely interesting story line to follow and to learn a bit of the lore as you go along.

Whatever did happen to Saurfang?
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On the subject of harder/easier. This solution still doesn't work for some of us.

For the me the whole idea of having an easy mode version of a super badass ultimate bad guy that a wholze zone or even expansion centers around, completely kills the initial joy of killing it. That feeling of slowly working your way through all the content over some months and then finally facing Illidan, there's nothing like that anymore.
Killing a boss on hardmode, while often quite difficult, is just nowhere near the same experience as killing something for the very first time and knowing you worked hard for that kill and you deserve it.

These days for me hard mode encounters feel more like a completely pointless grind as you've already killed the same enemy on a different difficulty level.
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Diamondspark
Grim Batol
Diamondspark
30/04/2012
@Gosu: I think that LFR/easymode for bosses is a pretty good solution, but I still totally agree with you.
I've only done the LFR version of End Time, and that has left me pretty uninterested in the normal and heroic versions. I mean, why should I put so much time and effort into something that I've already done before with a lot less effort? For gear? Why do I need that whan I can kill the same boss with the gear I have now?
At the same time it makes me sad to think about missing all the potential joy of working through a hard raid for months and then finally killing the last boss.

My idea is that the LFR and normal/heroic raids are completely different raids, but I guess that's hard to do since they'd have to make twice as many raids.
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Santaria
Darksorrow
Santaria
04/04/2012
the only thing that really irritated me with cata and WoW in general is that if you don't kill the boss during the first week you would not have the achievement which ment that you could not get into the raid
a bit of a paradox.... you need the achievement to get into the raid, you need to get into the raid to get the achievement.
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Robanybody
Turalyon
Robanybody
09/04/2012
@Santaria: This comment is spot on. I don't do dungeons and I don't raid - mainly because of the constant complaints (can't use the word I would like because in the US they think its rude!) about peoples gear but I can't get into raids anyway as now I don't have the achievement already. What's the point of doing it twice anyway?
What I miss from the old days is that you struggled to build upa group but then you stuck with it even if you wiped until you found out how to kill the boss. Now you can even look it up so why do need to have done it before?
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Benevolene
Trollbane
Benevolene
13/04/2012
@Robanybody: That group you build up is called a guild, and the world of warcraft still works exactly the same that way. You have 10 or 25 players, you go there every week and do your best to progress through the tier. If you don't have the time or the will to do what's required to raid, then it's just tough. As with all games, the one who puts in the most time and effort, wins.
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Larohir
Darkmoon Faire
Larohir
04/04/2012
Really looking forward to MoP, but there is one thing Blizzard needs to correct is Queuing times. I was originally a PvE-r but the length in queue times for dps and the difficulty of obtaining desirable gear is what drove me to PvP; where the queue times are non existant (on my realm anyway) and you choose what gear you recieve. It was quicker to grind honour then conver it to JP to buy Heirlooms for my alts than doing dungeons
So basically sought out the Queue times and i will love you even more
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Bahreturn
Stormscale
Bahreturn
04/04/2012
I love you Greg, you're so smart and you do understand what we want and what we need!

Yeah man, more content for all of us. Not everyone likes to be locked-out of raids because "LFM Firelands, achievement or no response", so raidfinder is great for us!!!
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Staticmushu
Quel'Thalas
Staticmushu
04/04/2012
I always enjoy the enthusiasm of the development team and it refreshes what I love and have loved about the game. This post specifically has engaged my interest in Pandaria where even yesterday I was ready to forget about it. My persistent issue with the game now is system which limits/rewards the effort I put in, e.g. the weekly valour/conquest caps and the fact that in less than 2 days played time at 85 my Priest is fully raid and pvp geared (I'm the obsessive type fyi) without having seen the first two tiers of Cata raiding. If epic items are to be obtained through a system of grinding dungeons purely for reward points then I would really beg you to consider a way of making these items so distinctive from raid items. Buying raid equivalent items without having to raid, added to merging raid lockouts has, for me, completely devalued raiding.
And while I can appreciate the Dev. team's personal love of this game/project, it does stink of the overriding model of keeping accounts active for as long as possible purely for business reasons.
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Hollows
Vek'nilash
Hollows
04/04/2012
i say,and this is just my opinion...make Heroic realms for max lvl chars.it would make the open world more like vannilla and most of us know,vannilla was the greatest..its just an idea,but i thnk a good one.
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Bottom
Burning Steppes
Bottom
03/04/2012
I totally agree about the LFR loot system!

The worst thing is seeing a need roll for an item YOU NEED, beaten by a player THAT HAS THAT PIECE ALREADY!!
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Spambushh
Saurfang
Spambushh
02/04/2012
I'm going to share my feedback as I scroll along here..
Leveling feels like a grind for most players. Specially the ones that have already done their bit of leveling. I like the changes to the talents, having fun abilities at lower level will definitely help.
It's just that MMORPGs in general have the same kind of system for leveling. Pick up a quest, kill 10 of those, loot 3 items, and rescue the goblin. I think the way to make it more interesting would be some kind of random events, or maybe having new low level dungeons with more strategy. Obviously this would take a lot of time to do, and would change the game quite dramatically at low/mid end content.
Quest flow is quite tricky, since every player levels differently, some do quests while in the dungeon finder queue. While others rather just do their quests zone by zone. That means giving quest lines a story wouldn't always work, since players would move on to the next zone once they get to the level they had to reach. Maybe focus less on the climax, and instead go for shorter quest lines?

I personally liked the 80-85 leveling experience. Again the thing was however, that I wasn't finishing the rather interesting quest lines cause I already leveled, meaning I could go to the next zone. "Just finish the quest lines before you move on then, geez!" I liked the questing, but not enough for me to really want to finish them, why would I? Getting to max level is way to exciting for me to slow down and finish quests that give me less experience. This might just be a personal thing, but maybe you want to look into it.

When it comes to gearing at 85, I think there should be a bit more of a cap between normal and heroic. That might seem like a bit of a dumb idea but hear me out here.

To get your PvE gear, you do some random dungeons in the dungeon finder. So that would either be the 80-84 dungeons as heroic, or just new 85 dungeons where you get epics that are slightly better than the heroic rares. If you want to get more gear by doing dungeons, you do 85 heroics. Which you can't queue up for in the dungeon finder, but actually have to find a group for. Then there is raid finder which gives slightly better gear than the 85 heroics. (Love the raid finder idea btw) "You'd just be able to do raid finder and get good gear though, doesn't that break the gap you're making with the 85 heroics? " Sure, if there wouldn't be a limit to doing raid finder every week. And then you obviously get the normal raids which gives better gear than raid finder. I would also include the buff here that makes it easier as you go along. Which will make the normal raid a bit more accessible to "regulars". Then there is the heroic raids that gives the best gear in the game at the time, which doesn't have the buff thingy.

PvP gearing kinda disappointed me in Cata. Being able to get the best PvP gear in the game just by doing random BGs. I honestly don't know what you were thinking when doing this. Arenas is one of the things that makes WoW pretty damn amazing and what makes it beat the competition. I personally think it kinda ruins the idea of doing arenas. There's the elite gear, which doesn't actually have better stats. Except for the weapons that is. Doesn't this system kind of ruin the idea of even doing arenas? Sure, you can still work your way up to elite gear. But at the same time you see people that spend way less time PvPing with the exact same stats as you. I'm not trying to sound like an elitist here, hell I don't even have any rating atm. It's again, just my personal opinion.
I would change the conquest you get by doing your random BG back to normal, and get rid of the elite gear, and instead have an arena rating requirement on the Cataclysmic gear. Which is how it was in WOTLK as far I can remember.

Transmogrification is amazing, I love seeing everyone running the old raids again to get the sweet looking T10 gear :).

In my opinion, the 80-85 leveling zones is something I would want to get back to once I hit 85. Cause I need Therazane rep for my shoulder enchants, and Wildhammer rep for my head enchant. Now all you have to do is get friendly, buy a tabard, and run a couple of heroics every week which you would do anyway to get your Valor cap. Poof, exalted.
I think you should either reduce the amount of rep you get with those tabards, or just completely remove them. It's not like it'll make a massive difference to people that don't have the time to get rep by questing. It'd be something for the people that have time to play the game, and want to play it, but don't have a clue what to do next.

I like the idea of challenge modes, definitely looking forward to it. I honestly think it'll give us more things to do as well, and get a nice reward. That we would actually deserve.

I like the new talents, having new and fun abilities to choose from is what I also liked about Cata.

I have mixed feelings about underwater zones. It would be nice if you'd ge
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Spambushh
Saurfang
Spambushh
02/04/2012
@Spambushh: I have mixed feelings about underwater zones. It would be nice if you'd get it to work, but it seems like it'll take a lot of time and thinking before you'd be able to get there. I'd honestly focus on other things first before going into stuff like this. What I like about WoW is that it's a fast paced game. Going underwater makes it more slow paced, it just doesn't feel comfortable with the physics WoW uses. (In my opinion)

As a rogue I was quite excited about getting legendary daggers. I took a 3-4 month break from WoW however so I never got a chance to go for 'em myself ;)
It's quite disappointing to see how many people already have em though tbh. Same goes for the legendary staff. When I see someone with a legendary I want my reaction to be, oh my god...that took him forever to get. He must be a really hardcore player.
It just doesn't feel like that though, it's indeed not as special as it's supposed to be.

Getting players back out into the world sounds like a great idea. And just in general having to group up a bit more with your guildies and friends. Instead of just queueing up for random hcs again. /yawn.
Bring back a bit more of the amazing social experience WoW has to offer. (I'm guessing the trolls are laughing their asses off right about now)

“I want to play WoW this evening, but I just don’t have anything to do.”
Is something I've said too many times lately, I love playing WoW. But you have to consider the audience has indeed changed quite a lot. I myself find it difficult to find people to play with atm, which makes it very difficult to enjoy the game. Cause it's just that much better to play this game with friends after having played it for quite a while. ( 3 years, maybe not as much as some of you, but still quite a long time for this one game ;) )

"we think that what all of those players are really saying is that they want content for them. Message received" Aww yeah.

I'm honestly really impressed by this blog post. I've read through it twice so far and have made quite a wall of text myself in response to it. Which is quite rare for me lol. I'm really excited too see what MoP has to offer for us. Reading this definitely comforts me, I was thinking WoW was going down the more easy/"regular" path. It seems like I was wrong though, and so are many others.

Again, I'm really impressed. I wish you guys good luck with making WoW a better experience. Not just for the hardcore players, not just for the regular players. But for everyone.

Thanks for taking the time to tell us what you think, and thanks for taking the time to read what we think.

Spambushh
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Ferreus
Lightbringer
Ferreus
02/04/2012
I'd like to see dungeon rewards addressed. Questing for gear seems pointless at 15-70 because the gear is alot easier to obtain as the dungeons are not hard at all plus the gear is ten times better than what you would find questing. Greens just dont have a place in WoW at the moment.
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Dekker
Anachronos
Dekker
01/04/2012
Except for the savage defence crap...

I'm looking really forward to the next expansion. The bigger the better. And yeah a single continent will be much better. A decrease on dungeon finder access for lower levels might get the entire world filled again. ;))
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Majusa
Stormreaver
Majusa
30/03/2012
The loot system of LFR wasnt too great of an success if u ask me. That i can understand if blizzard wants pvp players to get some experiences on raiding. but id still say they should get pve gear before getting into LFR cause it tends to piss of those who go as MS pvp. bk to the point. Ninjaing makes LFR into an bad experience, who bothers to do LFR if u have like 1 out of 20 chance to win somefting. make it 10 man version or somefting. And the token ninjaing is irritating. over half of the tokens which drop gets ninjaed by some1 who doesnt have the slightest use for them in MS which they joined the raid.
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Voodowalker
Wildhammer
Voodowalker
29/03/2012
I like this! I actually feel that blizzard understands the problems with the game. I really hated the thing about portalling everywhere. Good job Ghostcrawler!
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Oromís
Shadowsong
Oromís
28/03/2012
Just don't give me another Isle of Conquest and I'll shut up about the rest.
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Robanybody
Turalyon
Robanybody
09/04/2012
@Oromís: I love Isle but it is very tactical and so a lot of players find it frustrating.
Just goes to show Blizz are trying to satisfy all sorts of people if there are pvp zones that don't suit some
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Benevolene
Trollbane
Benevolene
13/04/2012
@Robanybody: Tactical and 40v40 doesn't go well together. Imo it's bad because of its size, not the objectives. If you're not at docks or workshop (or in either of the mainbases) you are unlikely to encounter an enemy player... That's just bad pvp.
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Ironßull
Frostmane
Ironßull
28/03/2012
I miss the need of keys ,it was fun to have to unlock dungeons or raid with key that u get after a long quest chain,keys disapeared along with other fun stuff that u had to do in the past,things are too easy to get and that is what destroyed the feeling of acomplishment of the game,u just log in doing LFR or raid with the guild 3 days progress and that is it,nothing else to do,you didn't added new item to archeology and why is that? acheology is useless now,you guys start something inivating and cool then you let it die,it is a very big mess up there at blizzard ,in a hurry to do new stuff,you need people with good ideas up there in blizz team,peace <3
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Robanybody
Turalyon
Robanybody
09/04/2012
@Ironßull: Agree! It was more of a challenge when you had to do a quest chain to become eligible for a dungeon or raid
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Benevolene
Trollbane
Benevolene
13/04/2012
@Robanybody: Or when you had to clear the previous tier to get access to the new one. It's not very casual-friendly but it certainly made you feel as if you were the savior of azeroth... Now you feel like just another moron come along to pwn deathwing.
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Druidje
Argent Dawn
Druidje
28/03/2012
Fundamentally, taking into account what we’ve learned about talent trees over the years, we’ve come to the conclusion that the talent tree model where you pick up tiny performance increases here and there (and where there’s, mathematically, nearly always a ‘right’ answer and a ‘wrong’ answer) is not a great model.

Why if I may ask?
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Robanybody
Turalyon
Robanybody
09/04/2012
@Druidje: Yeah. I'm worried the new talents will just mean everyone's the same. I enjoy being different to others and sometimes my choices may make it harder for me but they make it more fun!