Coffee With the Devs: Content for the Casual 85

As this is my first Coffee with the Devs, I thought some introductions would be in order. I’m the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft, but many of you may already be familiar with my writing and webcomics under the pen-name Fargo from years past. To all my new and old friends: Hello! I hope to have the opportunity for more chats like this in between cramming our game full of epic experiences capable of melting your frontal lobes with pure liquefied awesome. (It says that on my business card.)
I’m 85. Now What?
World of Warcraft has a pretty big footprint: we try to create a world that appeals to casual and hardcore players alike. There’s a whole body of players - be they casual or solo gamers or serious gamers with time constraints - who gravitate toward questing. It’s the most accessible part of the game. Quests move you through cool locations, allow you to play through epic stories, and continually reward you without requiring a lot of practice or commitment. Not everyone has the time to raid, and not everyone wants to; for many players, quests are the whole game. A major thrust of the Cataclysm expansion, obviously, was to recreate much of the world to give players a more consistent, satisfying, epic questing experience as they level up.
But there’s a problem with level-up questing, and it keeps me up at night. It has an end. When you hit max level, the rewards slow to a trickle. You don’t get a comforting Ding! every couple of hours. You stop learning new abilities. From a solo progression standpoint, your character is in many ways “done,” and you turn your attention to the other parts of the game (like crafting.)
For many players, the end is just the beginning. We’ve done a lot to provide serious players with ongoing progression in the form of dungeons, raids, and accumulating high-end gear for fighting bosses or PvP. But what about the player who just wants to keep questing?
Keeping the Rewards Coming
In the absence of gaining levels, there are still ways to reward players who want to continue questing or playing through quest-like experiences. Here are some things (there may be more) that might encourage players like this to stick around:
- Participation in an epic story
- A sense of progress
- Discovery of something new or unexpected each day
- Earning character customization (including cool mounts!)
- Earning fun toys
- Making your character more powerful
I didn’t list gold as a reward, because even though it’s fun to hoard gold, the usual reason you want to do so is for one of the reasons listed above. I also hesitated to add “making your character more powerful” to the list. Even though it’s fun and rewarding, I think it has a limit. It’s mostly relevant only if you’ve got powerful stuff to fight. And if you’re not interested in raids, getting powerful just for the sake of power isn’t always compelling.
We’ve grappled with this problem before, and we’ll continue to tinker with solutions. The Isle of Quel’Danas provided people with a great sense of progression, at least on a realm-wide level, and it sure felt epic. The Argent Tournament definitely gave players a sense of personal progress, as well as lots of fun toys.
But for patch 4.2, we really wanted to give players something. Something big!
Fight for the Firelands!
The Guardians of Hyjal are getting smart in patch 4.2. They’re not just assaulting the Firelands with hardcore raiding guilds… they’re attacking that place with everything they’ve got. That includes you, solo players! We’ve created a whole zone dedicated to daily questing. There are some 60 new quests in total – that’s about half a zone’s worth of quest content. While the raiders are concentrating on taking down the likes of Ragnaros, you’ll be securing the rest of his fiery domain.
There’s also a story here, a chronicle of a vicious, knock-down, drag-out fight that begins in Hyjal and progresses - over the course of weeks - across the mountaintop and then into the Firelands themselves. Along the way, major characters are going to get rocked, you’ll meet (and destroy) a few new villains, and you’ll earn yourself a small heap of nice rewards. The druids are establishing a beachhead in a hostile world, starting with little more than a pile of rocks and ultimately erecting an enormous otherworldly base.
The progression is personal: you won’t see it happen until you make it happen.
We want to keep that sense of progression going, not just over the course of weeks but on a daily basis. As you begin to unlock and upgrade your hub in the Firelands, more quests will become available, and you’ll be able to slowly push your way forward every day. Extensive randomization means your quest flow will be a little different one day to the next. You’ll also have choices to make as to how the battle progresses.
The Firelands daily area hits a lot of the high points on my list above. And, for good measure, players can also earn a lot of gold and player-power enhancing items as well.
Beyond the Firelands…
Problem solved? Far from it – to be clear, we don’t think the Firelands questing arc is 'the answer'. But I’ll come out and say I think it’s pretty sweet. I’d love to hear your feedback – it’s been up and running on the Public Test Realm for a couple of weeks now. Personally, I’ve fought my way into the Firelands and I’m nearly ready to select my first major upgrade to the quest hub… do I go with the Druids of the Talon or do I recruit the Shadow Wardens? Decisions, decisions! My choice will impact the next couple weeks of questing.
Still, we’re building towards something, and we’re constantly watching players to see what works and what doesn’t. I can’t wait to see the Guardians of Hyjal stage their assault on the live servers.
In the meantime, even as we speak, our Top Men and Women (and I want you to imagine that we’re wearing lab coats) are scheming up ways to push these ideas even farther in future World of Warcraft updates. Players shouldn’t feel like max level is the end of their experience. We want everyone to participate in something epic, no matter what their playstyle.
Dave “Fargo” Kosak is the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft. Each morning by the first light of dawn his forearms are ritually shaved, followed by twenty minutes of cardio on one of those playground spring-horses.

Boulderfist
I’m 85. Now What?
World of Warcraft has a pretty big footprint: we try to create a world that appeals to casual and hardcore players alike. There’s a whole body of players - be they casual or solo gamers or serious gamers with time constraints - who gravitate toward questing. It’s the most accessible part of the game. Quests move you through cool locations, allow you to play through epic stories, and continually reward you without requiring a lot of practice or commitment. Not everyone has the time to raid, and not everyone wants to; for many players, quests are the whole game. A major thrust of the Cataclysm expansion, obviously, was to recreate much of the world to give players a more consistent, satisfying, epic questing experience as they level up.
But there’s a problem with level-up questing, and it keeps me up at night. It has an end. When you hit max level, the rewards slow to a trickle. You don’t get a comforting Ding! every couple of hours. You stop learning new abilities. From a solo progression standpoint, your character is in many ways “done,” and you turn your attention to the other parts of the game (like crafting.)
For many players, the end is just the beginning. We’ve done a lot to provide serious players with ongoing progression in the form of dungeons, raids, and accumulating high-end gear for fighting bosses or PvP. But what about the player who just wants to keep questing?
Keeping the Rewards Coming
In the absence of gaining levels, there are still ways to reward players who want to continue questing or playing through quest-like experiences. Here are some things (there may be more) that might encourage players like this to stick around:
Participation in an epic story
A sense of progress
Discovery of something new or unexpected each day
Earning character customization (including cool mounts!)
Earning fun toys
Making your character more powerful
I didn’t list gold as a reward, because even though it’s fun to hoard gold, the usual reason you want to do so is for one of the reasons listed above. I also hesitated to add “making your character more powerful” to the list. Even though it’s fun and rewarding, I think it has a limit. It’s mostly relevant only if you’ve got powerful stuff to fight. And if you’re not interested in raids, getting powerful just for the sake of power isn’t always compelling.
We’ve grappled with this problem before, and we’ll continue to tinker with solutions. The Isle of Quel’Danas provided people with a great sense of progression, at least on a realm-wide level, and it sure felt epic. The Argent Tournament definitely gave players a sense of personal progress, as well as lots of fun toys.
But for patch 4.2, we really wanted to give players something. Something big!
Fight for the Firelands!
The Guardians of Hyjal are getting smart in patch 4.2. They’re not just assaulting the Firelands with hardcore raiding guilds… they’re attacking that place with everything they’ve got. That includes you, solo players! We’ve created a whole zone dedicated to daily questing. There are some 60 new quests in total – that’s about half a zone’s worth of quest content. While the raiders are concentrating on taking down the likes of Ragnaros, you’ll be securing the rest of his fiery domain.
There’s also a story here, a chronicle of a vicious, knock-down, drag-out fight that begins in Hyjal and progresses - over the course of weeks - across the mountaintop and then into the Firelands themselves. Along the way, major characters are going to get rocked, you’ll meet (and destroy) a few new villains, and you’ll earn yourself a small heap of nice rewards. The druids are establishing a beachhead in a hostile world, starting with little more than a pile of rocks and ultimately erecting an enormous otherworldly base.
The progression is personal: you won’t see it happen until you make it happen.
We want to keep that sense of progression going, not just over the course of weeks but on a daily basis. As you begin to unlock and upgrade your hub in the Firelands, more quests will become available, and you’ll be able to slowly push your way forward every day. Extensive randomization means your quest flow will be a little different one day to the next. You’ll also have choices to make as to how the battle progresses.
The Firelands daily area hits a lot of the high points on my list above. And, for good measure, players can also earn a lot of gold and player
Hellscream
The Sha'tar
Draenor
The new dungeons I wont even talk about. It can be 1 shoted if U never did them.
I really thought, and am not alone to think so, that we should get more harder content tbh.
This game is strating to get easier and easier.
TBC ruled. GIVE US BACK TBC again.. Screw the 10/25 versions of all instances. There must be a better way....
Make a 10 man instance where the final boss is last to defeat...but make it like he escapes to a 25 man instance where he can be actually killed... Make a title for both kills.. and ditribute loot from the chest as he escapes the instance..
I mean .. thee is a lot of things that can be done...
JUST GET SOME BETTER IDEAS.. cause the game is dying. Make something really worth it in Mists of Pandaria...
MAKE US say WOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eonar
Patch 4.3 IS a good patch, not sure what your problem is, it must stem from your ego, thinking blizzard are now catering for you, and your inflated ego
The new heroics are for the more casual of people, the raid finder is for people who want to learn raids or want an easy raid, then you have dragon soul,and dragon soul heroics for the guilds or hardcore guilds who think that the heroic raids will meet with a more challenge for them.
In summation there is content for all, and i see that even though you say its all too easy, you do not seemed to of downed the bosses in heroic raids, so i think you seem to be contradicting yourself!!
Try the heroic raids, and then qq when you have that achievement, in the meantime, shut your elitist hole and be thankful that blizzard have brought out this awesome patch, and if you have a problem with what i say, consider it a reality check for you, enjoy the content or quit, no one is forcing you to play but you. :)
Al'Akir
Obviously you haven't done DS 25main heroic in your own realm with your own guild.
Outland
Eonar
Also i like the way they have catered for the more casual players who don't want to raid, grinding the valor for none tier gear, you get it all except the shoulders, but the new instances provide the 378 ones which are as good as firelands none tier gear.
Next the raid finder, you have the looking for raid with lower tier gear but still mighty nice, the superior dragon soul raids for guilds, and the heroic raids for the most dedicated guilds.
This latest patch is awesome, one of the best patches in a long time, it looks like they have really come trumps with this, there is now something for everyone. :) well done blizzard and i hope you all enjoy the new content :)
Sylvanas
But bear in mind , if you raid with your guildies your reward is better and more challenging.They nade a good thing by adding raid finder ,so people can learn what boss is like before making an application and also , this system just kills "bring archiv or gtfo" system.Because of that thing , most of players , even if they had free nights to raid , were not able to raid , guilds and pugs were looking for people that already have archievements.
What if you dont ? Also there wasnt any ways to get one without raiding.It was just killing itself and that made me to quit wow for 5 months.
Also , if you think im one of the baddies , check my raid history on WotLK.I did that progress when buff was %10.
Eonar
I got valor capped on the Wednesday but i still do them with guild as they are fun, and not every bit of content has to be hardcore, and regardless of how much anyone has progressed they should be treated as human beings, if i ever pug this and we wipe due to lack of tactics in new heroics, it takes but a minute to explain tactics, and yes i agree with you on the raid finder, we all have our own perception on the different difficulties of the raids, and now the raid finder has dispensed with people wanting achievements before you get invited.
I myself have not got much in the way of achievements for raids, but either way i appreciate the content and know my own limit and always up for a challenge and the dragon soul raids certainly have.
We all have different skill levels and limits, and we all enjoy the content, well most do anyway.
Good luck with your studies and i hope you can find teh time to down some of the nasties in raid finder .
:)
Ragnaros
Silvermoon
cia.
Aerie Peak
Aerie Peak
I like the dalies, as a casual player I want to do something in the 30 to 40 minutes that i have, that rewards me decently, and the gear does. The dailies are not compulsory so if you dont like them dont do them. It has made the game more fun because now I can occaisionally tank for my guild again. I dont see why I can get decent gear for the effort i put in. BTW i dont do the dailies daily, it would bore me to death :)
The new blacksmithing recipies were a massive dissapointment. If chaos orbs were BOA it would be much fairer for the pvp player. I gather the mats or earn the rep but the plans are useless. You have made them epic in terms of mats, and I really believe the time has come to free up chaos orbs and stimulate the economy more. This would open up different routes to getting epic gear. I was under the impression that I would be able to craft the gear for my guild, and I farmed all the mats so i could make their gear in return for orbs to make my own. It was really dissapointing. These guys raid 4x a week and do heroics daily and there is no way i can match this.
Over all its great to be back in the game again but please release chaos orbs for us non pve blacksmiths XD
Khadgar
Azjol-Nerub
Silvermoon
Anachronos
(typecal troll comment)
Azjol-Nerub
Aerie Peak
Argent Dawn
Daggerspine
Ghostlands
Twisting Nether
Bloodhoof
Drak'thul
Magtheridon
add up the argent tournament / old content dailies and suddenly level 85 isnt fun, its just 1 huge limitation for i cannot grind anything if i wanna keep up on the firelands
Quel'Thalas
Dentarg
1. Guild Houses
This is by far the best idea i've heard in here. Imagine your guild, not all huddled up in orgrimmar so no one can see the npc's anymore, In an instance-like place, where guild achievements, rewards, perhaps some mounts and pets of the guild roaming about would all be shown.
Epic. You can craft/trade things with each other in here(instead of mostly in org/stormwin) and just duel each other or whatever.
Just epic, really.
Also, the idea of pvp through guild halls is also truly epic.
2. Gear enhancement (visual)
Changing gear, not statistically(it would be a bother, think about it), but visually.
Like the glows, I used to gather mats for Enchant: Lesser beastslaying just because it had that glow. A whole new line of mats to create these kinds of glows, perhaps a guild brand on the hilt of a blade/axe. This will make the player feel so much more unique! Like some mounts have guild banners, this idea can be expanded so much more..
3. Lore & Quests
The new (Cataclysmic) world has offered many new quests, with bits of lore here and there. If anyone noticed, the pre-quests to the zandalari hc's, and the firelands after, have a lot of lore attached instead of just "dull" quests. I was in shock to see Hamuul get his hairy A** burned, by some .. random druid of the flame! Only to find out, ofcourse she was actually the wife of Valstann Staghelm, son of Fandral Staghelm. So much epic lore, we couldn't ask for more. + most of these quests dont require you to be online hour after hour. Overall: This is already being worked on further, so no point in going further onto the "no end-game content for casual" cliché.
If the casuals dont want lore, quests,gold or vanity items, then by god I hope you like the guild hall, or else you're all F**ked!
Twisting Nether
Eonar
Draenor
A suggestion I have on the matter, other than comletely redisigning the questing process to make it an actually integral part of a playable character's in-game "life", came to me in the past few days. Recently, I began doing the relatively new daily fishing and cooking quests, in Thunder Bluff and the Undercity. And they were so much fun! All were creative, the fishing quests actually required you to fish, unlike some their counterparts in Orgrimmar, every single item had some kind of flavour text, and there were some epic ones, like feeding the local green, tentacled monster in Undercity. But, the most welcome element of these quests was the fact, that each is "tailored" to a specific racial faction in the game. Each quest has a unique feel to it, emanating from the people for who you do the quest. And I think that THAT is what is missing for the questing experience in the game now. There are twelve different racial factions in the game, but only two paths to go through while questing in high-level content. If each racial faction had it's own path, there would be by default twelve different ways to play the game. It is a lot of work of course, a real lot of work to do something like that, but I for one, would love for some resources to be put in that direction, instead of creating more grinding spots, like Tol Barad. Additionaly, there could be some alterations in each path, depending on the character's class, and even specialization at times (it's not hard to imagine some situations where a paladin would handle things differently than a rogue for example).
Jaedenar
Nagrand
Blade's Edge
Azjol-Nerub
With the exceptions of NEVER being done on a final boss and only ever commencing AFTER a server 1st raid achievement has been completed, but also not available to Heroic mode in any form.
How would it be if Blizz could come up with a ..
Fully Interactive Demo Run For EVERY Raid encounter .. a ZERO reward TUITION only run though which is CLASS specific to a SINGLE CHARACTER & class TYPE. During this entire raid run (which can be paused outside of combat and returned to at a later time, or re-sets after a timer) the demo could explain (as a Raid Leader would) precisely what is required of the Demo players class character. This would be an excellent way for learning raid content for both guild and solo player alike.. This could be achieved quite easily IMO, but just requires a little effort on the part of Blizz to get this sorted for all classes and for both factions. In effect it would be tagging along with a “Recorded, Identical every time” Raid but geared to a raid leader doing brief explanations on what is going on overall, but then combined with more specific instructions of what he expects YOU to do. The mechanics for this could be that the player is also part of the Threat System and is subject to pulling agro & death. After which the player can either immediately reset from the last completed boss or sit dead on the ground to watch the remainder of the raid, with continual advise being given by the raid leader.
Hell Blizz could do this in such a way as to make it a fun encounter, heavy on wit and the likes.
A tuition for Healers, Tanks and Dps Classes, the list is not exhaustive but could be quite extensive but would probably make the difference between some players NEVER EVER seeing eng game content and actually participating and completing an End Game raid.
If the more hard core raiders feel aggrieved at this ability to permit mere mortals into their world, then perhaps the player character could even be “Tagged” in character achievements as having completed certain a boss in a tuition run. Let Blizz work it out.
Just my wee suggestion.
Nagrand
Nagrand
The Sha'tar
1) Gather enough money to buy a house placement tool
2) Hunt for a free plot to place the foundation (this could take weeks to find)
3) Place the foundation
4) Building the house piece by piece, alternating with grinding monsters to gather enough funds to continue building (this phase can easily take weeks as well)
5) Once the house was finished, build furniture to furnish it with
6) Go fishing to fish up paintings to put on the wall
7) Level up your crating skills to build nicer furniture and other furnishings such as sculptures and vases
8) Hunt for rare items to decorate your house with, such as the fruit bowl which spawns at server start
The list of things to do was endless. And guess what? Your house rots and collapses if the account is closed. Thus I've been keeping 2 Ultima Online accounts open since 1999 because I don't want to lose my beautiful houses. I pay monthly subscriptions even though I don't even play so much. It's crazy.
UO is of course an isometric game, so building a house from scratch in a free 3d environment like WoW is not so easy. Instead, here's my suggestion for how housing would work: Every single house in WoW that has a closed door that you cannot get into and which thus, does not house an NPC already (such as the many houses of Ironforge) becomes a clickable door with the gear icon. The result:
1) You don't own a house yet, you are asked if you wish to purchase the home for so and so much gold (different doors offer different sums, for instance apartments in Ironforge would be much more expensive than a house out in the wilderness)
2) You already own a house and this is your door: You gain access into your home like entering an instance.
3) You already own a house but this is not your door: You are told that this is not your house and are given a flag on the map where to find yours.
4) You are in a party with the owner of that house: You are asked if you want to visit your friend's house.
5) You both "own" the same door and you're asked which apartment you want to visit. If not partied with your friend you'd just automatically go to your own home.
The beauty in this plan is that then Blizzard would not have to create new housing areas, instead players could feel like they are truly integrated with the world they already know and love. This is what all the veterans of the game have been waiting for, for years already! C'mon Blizzard, give us something that will give us the feeling of ownership in the game! I have never truly felt I was a part of WoW, more like a visitor playing along the story that the designers made for me. Having a house would make me finally feel like I belong.
Aszune
IDK.
But it would be cool to have a guild hideout or something...
Also, within these building you can work towards having certain high level vendors who sell gear / mats...idk, RP stuff?