The Great Item Squish (or Not) of Pandaria
The lead designers were originally going to talk about this topic at BlizzCon, but it didn’t really match the content of the rest of our “Intro to Pandaria” presentation, and seeing as how we finished our 90-minute slot with 93 seconds remaining, there wouldn’t have been room for it anyway. But several of us did bring up the issue with players and media we talked to, and it even ended up in at least one FAQ, so we figured we’d go ahead and get the information out there. Note that unlike much of what we presented for the upcoming Mists of Pandaria expansion, this is not an announcement. It’s more of a problem we’d like to address, and a couple of ways we potentially might do so. Feedback is certainly appreciated.
Big Number Syndrome
Hey, our stats are growing exponentially. If you look at everything from the Strength on a weapon to the damage being done by a Fireball crit or the amount of health the Morchok boss has, they look downright absurd compared to the numbers for level 60 characters in the original shipping version of World of Warcraft. It’s not exactly a surprise that we were going to end up here, and we knew where we were going every step of the way, yet regardless, here we are.

Fig. 1. Item level vs. character level. Brown = vanilla. Green = BC. Blue = LK. Red = Cat.
The numbers grew so much primarily because we wanted rewards to be compelling. Upgrading from a chestpiece that has 50 Strength into one that has 51 Strength is undeniably a DPS increase for the appropriate user, but it’s not a very exciting reward. Such negligible increases can drive players to do some weird things, such as skipping over tiers of gear or entire levels of content. This is particularly relevant when we’re talking about a new expansion. We don’t want level-85 players to have a reasonable shot at level-90 dungeons and raids (or PvP opponents) just because that content is balanced for gear that isn’t much better than what the level-85 players have.
So we arrived at this point in a logical fashion, and we don’t really think we should have handled things any differently. However, it’s still a weird place to be, and it’s about to get weirder. These aren’t real items, in that we don’t know for sure what the item levels will be in patch 5.3 and patch 6.3 (if only we planned that far ahead!) but they are reasonable guesses, and you can see just how ridiculous the items look.

Fig. 2. A theoretical item from patch 5.3.

Fig. 3. A theoretical item from patch 6.3.
So what do we do about it? There are two general categories of solutions. The first is to make the numbers appear more manageable and the second is to actually change the numbers.
Mega Damage
The first solution could include changes like adding commas and the like to large numbers. We could also compress all of those 1000s to Ks and all of those 1,000,000s to Ms, much like we do with boss health today. Internally, we have been calling this the “Mega Damage solution” because instead of your Fireball hitting for 6,000,000 damage, it would hit for 6 MEGA DAMAGE (queue the Arcanite Ripper guitar solo).

Fig. 4. Mega Damage. Name/screenshot not to be taken seriously.
If we can make numbers such as floating combat text and boss health and item stats a little easier to read at a glance, then maybe we can endure numbers increasing exponentially for many digits to come. Now there are some very real computational limitations. PCs just can’t quickly perform math on very large numbers, so we’d have to solve all of those problems as well. Even today, tanks can hit the ten digit threat cap on some encounters.
Item Level Squish
The second solution actually involves compressing item levels, which is why we call it the “item level squish solution.” If we can lower stats on items, then we can lower every other number in the game as well, such as how much damage a Fireball does or how much health a gronn has. If you look at the item level curves, you can see that most of the growth occurs at the maximum character levels for the various expansions. This is because we keep rewarding more and more powerful gear to make the new raid tier and PvP season in an expansion reward significantly better gear than the previous one. However, those huge item level jumps don’t accomplish a lot once the character level has increased again. Very few players notice or care how much of an upgrade the Black Temple loot is over the Serpentshrine Cavern loot when their characters are level 80.
With that in mind, we could go back and compress the big item level increases that occur at level 60, 70, 80 and 85. The Mists of Pandaria gear would still grow exponentially from patch to patch, but the baselines would be a lot lower. Health could go from 150,000 back down to something like 20,000. The big risk of this approach is that players will log into the new expansion and feel nerfed… even if all the other numbers are compressed as well.
In other words, your Fireball will still do the same percentage damage to a player or a creature that it does today, but the number would be smaller. Logically, this seems like it would work, and it does. But it feels weird. When we tried this internally, everyone agreed that it just felt off throwing a spell for hundreds of damage when you are used to it doing thousands of damage.
I came up with an analogy -- even though I know logically that people drive on the left side of the street in the UK (we drive on the right side of the street in the US) and wouldn’t be surprised to see it, it would still feel really disorienting if I was driving in the UK and had to make a right-hand turn.

Fig. 5. Item level vs. character level before and after ‘squish’. Brown = vanilla. Green = BC. Blue = LK. Red = Cat
So Now What?
As I type this today, we haven’t decided on which if either solution we want to try. Maybe we’ll come up with yet another solution. Maybe it’s the kind of thing we can put off for another expansion so that players don’t have to adjust to the new talent system and a drastic item level compression at the same time. Or maybe it’s better just to pull the Band-Aid off fast and fix everything at once. Time will tell. I did, however, want to outline the problem lest any of you believe we don’t think there is a problem. There is. We’re just not sure of the best solution yet. If your answer is that stat budgets don’t have to grow so much in order for players to still want the gear, our experience says otherwise, and thus these proposed solutions exist. Your thoughts on the matter are valuable.
Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. The last time he used “Fig. 5” in an article, it related fish predation to estuarine hydrocarbon contamination.

Defias Brotherhood
Draenor
Nagrand
I agree too, that the skill is not really required to much in the game anymore either, seems now that the ability to do repetative pug instances until one gets the right gear is all that is required. Where is the fun in that, doesn't matter how good it looks the first time after the 30th it is formulaic and dull.
Mal'Ganis
Eonar
Eonar
Azuremyst
Outland
Silvermoon
Azuremyst
Chest with 10k str? Jezus.
Talnivarr
Aggramar
Chamber of Aspects
Stormreaver
Eonar
Magtheridon
Nordrassil
A linear approach would reduce that and also mean the re-introduction of ability playing more of a role in such events. a log scale would do nothing but disguise teh difference as being smaller in number to 95% of the players, whilst having no actual affect of the gap inbetween levels. You would still end up with a lvl 90 player being ridiculously stronger than one a few levels under as it would still have an exponetial basis. the "squish" or transference to a more linear scale is pretty much the best solution and would avoid this future chasm in level gaps from occuring even more than it already does with 80 to 85, it was there in 70 to 80 but not as apparent, with each expansion it gets bigger and bigger.@Ecchiboy:
Ravencrest
Terokkar
However, I like the idea of a balanced game where players can look each other in the eye. Perhaps even where a bit of skill and brains is what is needed to do a quest, dungeon or raid, rather than just playing enough to be sure your gear is so good that it is not even possible to even get your armour tarnished by another player or a boss.
Guess I am a bit of a niche gamer, but what I look for in a game is adventure and discovery, not players showing each other how big they are, in every sense.
Sylvanas
Dragonblight
Aerie Peak
The real issues is around the gap between what casuals can achieve and what dedicated players can achieve and balancing this out to improve the gaming experience for those with a life "outside of azeroth":)
So dont worry about what the numbers look like, they dont really mean that much, please concentrate on balancing certain classes and most importantly pleeeeeeeze make arena gear unequipable in random bgs or scalet it to ordinary honour gear dammage in random bgs
Pleeeese, pleeeeeese :D No more gy camping for the honour farmers and frustration for the casual player XD
Kazzak
Kazzak
Someone noticed that in vanilla, you could still use your old gear up until TBC content started, and even in it - it was still something worth if you raided for ages. This is gone now. I was so !@#$ing disappointed when I started replacing my hardly farmed end-game gear with the first green or blue drop. So everyone has the same chance? Balls - I know it's a minority that has raided as much as I, and so you satisfy the greater part of your costumers, but it was cool to be able to use your TBC gear until 80.
Squish it if you want to, I don't care, it's only numbers, but I don't see the need for it, unless it really decreases performance. I like the HP / Mana as it is now tbh., but I wouldn't mind you changing it for whichever reason you find justifyable.
Terokkar
Also big numbers are not a problem for most players but that doesn't mean no one cares about it - it's already starting to look like a cheap korean game, you know with millions of damage done in a single hit.
Eonar
Im sure that reducing the stats by 50 percent in cata should suffice, maybe even to 60-70k in full 378 and rescale the stats/mobs accordingly to fit the area, and the only difference will be is the rescaled stats and the damage will be just the same percentage but reduced to allow for better quality of play.
Blizzard really need to chill with raiding gear as it feels like u have to gear up asap instead of just casually raiding and enjoying it, and the guilds who do heroic raids can actually feel proud to have achieved that goal and not just gear up and then a week later have to start all over again.
:)
Terenas
Terenas
After 3 expansions the items have 8-10 times higher stats than in vanilla wow.
With those stats he are showing we are talking 15 expansion before we get to see them.
Instead of changing much every expansion, why not try to fix the balance problem between the classes that exist today?
Ahn'Qiraj
What about soloing? You say it is going to be fine - but how, as even now soloing Raggy in MC requires you to think a second. MoP items will bring like 1/2 of recent Cata stats (according to the figure), so most bosses will remain unsoloable. And soloing is a very interesting part of the game.
Ilvl squish is really unnecessary. If you feel large numbers offensive, you can shorten large numbered crits to make them pop up as "200k", not 200312 damage. Recount dps meter does that and I've never seen any problems with that system.
Neptulon
also, who really cares about big numbers? it just makes the game more manageable if there is a squish.
Eonar
Blizzard are happy to let us solo old content, i learned how to tank on my paladin by soloing up heroic, since it was a complete face roll in wrath i got myself used to using the cool downs and get used to the new way prot paladins felt,
Also since the transmogrification is coming out in 4.3, its a chance to solo old content to get the gear to apply to your new armor so i highly doubt blizzard would deny us the ability to do that, and since only a very small percentage want and like to go back to old content the chances of getting a group woudl be astronomically low.
:)
Neptulon
Neptulon
Runetotem
Talnivarr
Ravencrest
Kor'gall
Cheers!
Auchindoun
level 1 <-> itemlevels 1-9
level 2 <-> itemlevels 10-19
...
level 85 <-> itemlevels 850-859
Then implement a damage modification factor exp(0.01*(x-10y)) where x=player's average item level, and y=target's level. Health should not grow, but remain constant and around e.g. 1000.
In this system, green items have less crit, haste, spellpower, attack power etc, than epic items, but because of the scaling with itemlevel, people would gladly switch to greens in the next expansion.
As an example of how this works, currently I do around 50k frostbolt on 50health lvl1 mob. The important relation here is 50,000/50~1,000: My frostbolt kills the lvl1 1000 times. In my suggestion, my frostbolt would do around 250 on my own level target with 1000 health, and the lvl1 rabbit would ALSO have around 1000health, say 500! The amount of health is independent of level! But, if I cast the frostbolt on the poor lvl1 rabbit, it would do 250*exp(0.01*840)/500~1,000 times overkill, exactly as before. However, fights between large level differences would be the only situations where you would see huge numbers; in e.g. bossfights, my frostbolt would do around 185 damage, which is completely manageable.
Auchindoun
Ravencrest