Coffee With the Devs — Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Coffee With the Devs — Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes

Our recent talent calculator changes led to some players asking questions about how character and item stats were changing, because some spell and talent tooltips suggest that changes are coming. We compiled this list to attempt to explain more of what’s coming in Mists of Pandaria. First of all, please note that we actually aren’t making many stat changes compared to the ones we made in Cataclysm (“armor penetration — gone!”). Second, the stuff below can get a little technical. If you’re not into the subtle nuance of gear itemization, then don’t worry about it — you don’t need to be to enjoy the expansion — but we know there are plenty of you who enjoy some nuts and bolts talk, so here we go.

Spell Resistance

  • Spell resistance is gone. There are no buffs that improve it and there shouldn’t be much, if any, spell resist gear left. We always thought the system was hard to understand and we weren’t getting much gameplay out of it. Now taking a step back, we can imagine how to develop a game where you’d want various forms of resist gear for certain situations and opponents. Resist gear could potentially be interesting, but it isn’t currently in World of Warcraft — the game has just been moving away from that sort of thing for years.
  • In the absence of spell resistance, there is no need for spell penetration on gear, so we’ll remove it as well.

Hit and Expertise

  • We still think having stats that can be capped is a good game design. Rather than focusing solely on stacking your best stat, you have to decide how valuable it is to hit your target before you go back to stacking your best stat. However, we are making some changes.
  • Hit and spell hit will no longer be separate stats. The hit stat negates melee miss and spell miss.
  • Expertise will negate dodge and spell miss, then parry.
  • Expertise will be listed as a percentage, just like hit, instead of having an intermediary stat.
  • We are normalizing hit with expertise, so that 1% of each stat will require the same amount of rating.
  • We are normalizing melee and spell hit, so that spell hit is equal to miss plus dodge.
    • Against an equal level creature: 6% spell miss, 3% melee miss, 3% dodge, 3% parry (from the front only), 3% block (from the front only).
    • Against a +1 level creature: 9% spell miss, 4.5% melee miss, 4.5% dodge, 4.5% parry (from the front only), 4.5% Block (from the front only).
    • Against a +2 level creature: 12% spell miss, 6% melee miss, 6% dodge, 6% parry (from the front only), 6% Block (from the front only).
    • Against a +3/boss level creature: 15% spell miss, 7.5% melee miss, 7.5% dodge, 7.5% parry (from the front only), 7.5% block (from the front only).
  • Ranged attacks will be able to be dodged. Hunters will benefit from expertise and will have it on their gear, which will also allow hunters and Enhancement shaman to share gear more easily.

Block

  • The chance to block will be handled by a separate combat roll for each attack that is not avoided. In other words, we first determine if an attack misses, or is dodged or parried. If it is not, then the attack has a chance to be blocked.
  • This gives block a consistent value, regardless of avoidance. Currently block becomes more valuable the more you have.
  • Block will also have diminishing returns, much like dodge and parry. This doesn’t mean that the value of block will go down as you get more block. It means that it won’t go up by as much when you get more block.
  • We don’t expect Protection warriors or paladins to get “block capped” other than during temporary effects, such as mastery procs on trinkets. Block tanks will be balanced around this change. Our intent is to make playing block tanks more fun, not to nerf them.
  • Also notice how Shield Block and Shield of the Righteous have changed in Mists.

Criticals

  • All spells and abilities will crit for double damage, baseline. There are a few exceptions where crits can get larger, but the default is x 2.0 for everyone.
  • This means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue poisons will crit for double damage. Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance.

Resilience

  • We are renaming this stat to “Defense (PvP)” or possibly “PvP Defense.” All players will have 30% base Defense, the same way all characters have some base Stamina.
  • PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP).” Power increases the damage you do to other players as well as the healing you do to other players in PvP situations.
  • If you have a lot of Power, you’ll do more damage to other players, but they likely have Defense as well. If you fight players in lots of PvE gear, they’ll take more damage. Likewise, a player in PvE gear won’t have enough Power to effectively penetrate your Defense.
  • The names PvP Power and PvP Defense may not be final, but we’re leaning towards going with stat names that are obviously PvP-related, rather than “fluffier” names that might not be as easy to grasp. We want it to be clear to players that neither Power nor Defense have any relevance when fighting creatures, such as in dungeons or raids.
  • PvP gear will be lower in item level than PvE gear of an equivalent tier, however the Power and Defense stats will make sure that PvP gear is more powerful in PvP (both offensively and defensively) than PvE gear. In our budgeting system, the PvP stats will be free rather than causing other stats, such as Strength or haste, to be smaller as a result of including Power or Defense.
  • The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP. Currently, we feel it is too large a barrier to go from one to the other, and the result has been that we see more and more players choosing to focus exclusively on only PvP or PvE. In earlier expansions, it was more feasible to use PvE gear in Arenas or Battlegrounds until you acquired the more useful PvP gear. The same was true of being able to use your PvP gear in a dungeon or raid until you acquired something better. In Cataclysm, stepping into PvP with no PvP gear would result in a player being so ineffective that it was difficult to even make progress towards acquiring PvP gear.
  • For the higher-end of PvP or PvE (say Gladiators or heroic raiders), we believe those players will still gravitate towards the dedicated PvP or PvE gear. It is the players who are working towards those two end games that will benefit more from some cross over.

That’s a lot of information, and it probably sounds more set-in-stone than it really is. We’ll continue to iterate as players poke holes in our ideas, tell us what is working out and what isn’t, and finally get to experience it first hand in beta.

Greg “Ghostcrawler” Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft. He didn’t name Mogu’dar, Blade of a Thousand Slaves, but he wishes he had.

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Comments (290)

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Priestelf
Saurfang
Priestelf
02/03/2012
@Spelljack: Wow please quit this game, I feel sorry for anyone who you interact with you in this game. Why give stats a complicated name in the first place? Why not just give it a name that a new player can look at and instantly know what it is, basically ur saying u prefer harder to understand stats, fsdnkfndsf decreses damage taken from other players, its okay because its easy to learn, why make it mor complicated then it has to be, by making it easier to understand the stats is not making the game for kids, when a new player joins it can be considerably confusing to look at all the stats and not know what they mean
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Karzonyx
Aszune
Karzonyx
03/03/2012
@Priestelf: ... really if you cant understand what resilience is you should just kill yourself or go back to school or Read.
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Dissolution
Kazzak
Dissolution
02/03/2012
Remove PvP Power/Defense as soon as the player with PvP gear is not in Battlegrounds/Arenas or Dueling. I don't want to get one shot every step I take while doing the PvE part of the game (questing/herbing/mining).

Or if you think that is too radical, add PvP Power/Defense to PvE gear as soon as a PvE equipped player enters a Battleground/Arena or Duel.

Equal chances for everyone there yo. If PvPers can raid, do dungeons or quests to a big degree in PvP gear, I want to be able to PvP to a degree in PvE gear.
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Leapez
Sylvanas
Leapez
02/03/2012
@Dissolution: That is a setback. If your PvE you PvE and you will have to deal whit the fact that you get owned alot untill you got PvP gear. PvE should not even be allowed in PvP cause it unbalances the game
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Priestelf
Saurfang
Priestelf
02/03/2012
@Dissolution: Yea, let's kill world pvp even more then it is now
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Dissolution
Kazzak
Dissolution
02/03/2012
@Priestelf:
I see your reasoning, because people we're be on a more equal ground as opposed to full PvE vs. full PvP gear, the world PvP will die even more.

No you know why it died, cause PvP equipped people started one-shotting PvE equipped people which have no chance what so ever to defend themselves, cause everything they can do against a full resilience player in PvE gear is stand still and wait to die.

I guess PvP pros, could handle PvE vs PvP gear (without power/defense) but with slightly lowere base stats, since they supposed to be properly better at PvP as a PvE guy, the only difference would be that the ganker wont one shot the guy, but will have to put some effort in the kill, and the PvE guy herbin might actually fight back and sometimes even win the jump, which is not possible right now.
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Dissolution
Kazzak
Dissolution
02/03/2012
@Leapez: Frankly PvE shouldn't be allowed into PvP, but they could make starter PvP set be easily available with Justice Points which you would receive in addition to Valor from Raids and Dungeons so-or-so. Until you don't have full PvP set you can't enter Arenas, Battlegrounds. But the starter set should be super cheap and easy to obtain.

Same goes for PvP gear in PvE, PvPers should have to buy PvE gear before they can queue or join Raids. The Justice or what not points to buy such gear could be obtainable in Battlegrounds and Arenas (again easily, cheaply and quick).

So you get the basic starter sets for both PvE and PvP relatively quickly, to be able to participate in both, but what you do from there on it's up to you.

But you have every single slot decked out in PvE if you wanna do PvE, or PvP if you wanna do PvP.

But I don't want to PvE, fishing peacefully in my Tier 16 set and then comes along some PvP pro, with the best PvP set with 60% power and 70% defense and one shots me with my 30% base defense. That's not World PvP, that bull!@#$.

I say cool, he owned me if I join his turf with my PvE set in like Battleground and Arenas, but if I mind my own business outside in PvE zones doing PvE stuff, both parties should be put on equal terms.
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Wromthrax
Auchindoun
Wromthrax
02/03/2012
I don't like this oversimplification of the game. I have no idea who are you making this game so simple for and why but it's terrible.
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Darnodus
Outland
Darnodus
02/03/2012
Dear blizzard,

After stating that, " the PvP stats will be free rather than causing other stats", you cannot be serious when you follow up with saying, "The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP".

Unless you include the PvP stats on PvE gear from now on, it means that PvP gear (which is already easier to obtain already than PvE gear) will get the far better deal out of these changes.
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Ayumix
Azjol-Nerub
Ayumix
02/03/2012
This could really work, but to ensure OP PvE weapons and trinkets don't sneak into the arena they should introduce better PvP items.

It might just be that PvP Weapons and Trinkets have big PvP Power/Defence procs/on use triggers so they are just plain and simply better than ANY PvE items.

This would be ideal but does rely on PvP Power/Defence being by far the best stat in PvP.
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Deathkon
Bronzebeard
Deathkon
02/03/2012
Keep the name Resilience, thats all i want, i always get used to new things
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Velvetti
Ravencrest
Velvetti
02/03/2012
"The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP"

"to participate" =/= "get started"

this is very wrong, and that pvp power and def doesnt cost ilvl, breaks the game ACTUALLY
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Ayumix
Azjol-Nerub
Ayumix
02/03/2012
@Velvetti:
It has to cost iLevel as gear will still have 2 secondary the same as PvE gear + PvP Powarrr and defence (hope they get better names)

If it was the same iLevel then it would be the same gear as PvE which they don't want, so lowering the iLevel makes PvP gear like Dungeon gear (or 1 tier lower) to get you started in raiding.

If you want the same iLevel then a stat penalty would have to be applied like it is currently.
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Elethar
Wildhammer
Elethar
02/03/2012
I can't help but imagine that having no PvP Power will be the same as having no resilience is today. I think the 30% base Defense is all that is needed.
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Snowjob
Chamber of Aspects
Snowjob
02/03/2012
So everything get's eased up again? Every expansion you make things "easier to understand" so now 3 year olds can start playing? god I can't wait till you release Diablo 3. Hopefully you'll keep that game in old standards.
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Ariusthepure
Bronze Dragonflight
Ariusthepure
02/03/2012
No more Spell penetration or magic resist? /facepalm
hit share both melee hit and spell hit /double facepalm
spells now can do 2x the damage /facewall

Make it even easier? Make spellcasters even more OP? like mages or priests arent dominating the dps tables already...

For PvP, giving power both healing as damage done a boost... NO! What you will create is a healer that can heal alot and with massive DoT/damage spells to maw down their enemies... that stat change will only cause much more trouble... or you have to use the same system as tbc: DPS spell gear has more SP then healing gear, but then people just will buy DPS PvP gear and use that in their healing set aswell... No this is a horrible idea
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Zauxst
Twisting Nether
Zauxst
02/03/2012
@Ariusthepure: Calm down, you don't know how the stats will be changed, this is only a glympse of what it will come... Besides it's still ALFA thinking, not even Beta.
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Némésís
Aggra (Português)
Némésís
02/03/2012
Wtf happned with expertise? good luck with that...
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Ishaye
Frostmane
Ishaye
02/03/2012
I like these changes overall, especially the resilience change.
However, there is no reason to have two separate stats, as they are all found together on the same gear in probably equal quantities and can't be reforged. It's just kindof... I dunno... stupid?

I have a big problem with this line:
"PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP).” Power increases the damage you do to other players as well as the healing you do to other players in PvP situations."

It's a smart thing to do - adding a PvP offensive stat. It makes PvE gear useless, as it should be, in high level arena, because the loss of PvP Power will offset the bonus damage from the PvE weapons. However, it's a severe misstep to do the same to healers.

The problem with resilience right now is that it favors healers by lowering damage without lowering healing, causing healing to become disproportionally high as the expansion progresses, right from 1:1.3 in the start all the way to 1:2 or so as it is now or even 1:3 as it was in WotLK. This is a big problem for balance as it creates a big "S9 gibfest" and "S11 nobody dies" problem and further even a "S4 healers can't go OOM without getting burned". Don't you see resilience is why this happens? (In addition to retarded PvE regen trinkets but that's another issue)

Remove the "increased healing on PvP targets" part of that stat and I think people will be happy. Healers aren't known to be running around with PvE gear to increase their healing. It's never paid off, it probably never will. The only PvE healing gear we've ever seen in arena was a legendary (Which is a separate issue, again) as well as regen trinkets i.e. NOT +healing trinkets.
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Ayumix
Azjol-Nerub
Ayumix
02/03/2012
I like that they are really trying to make the difference.

I posted an idea on this subject that addresses some of people's concerns.

It's not prefect but maybe some aspects could be used with this system

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3429903759
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Immolthar
Earthen Ring
Immolthar
02/03/2012
i like the changes, the best part pvp ilvl will be lower than pve so even if you have bis Pvp gear it will do lower dps than let's hope normal gear from raids.
Expertise forr hunter sounds good to since you hit with arrows so there should be a block /parry or dodge
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Crevan
Darksorrow
Crevan
02/03/2012
What's happening to dual-wield hit penalty? Is it still 19%?
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Meridian
Outland
Meridian
02/03/2012
lmao that resilience name change is retarded
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Ariusthepure
Bronze Dragonflight
Ariusthepure
02/03/2012
@Meridian: read it again. And if you don''t see it, again. The names are just to give an idea. They arent going to be called PvP power
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Rakuel
Defias Brotherhood
Rakuel
02/03/2012
im not so sure about the resistance change, dont seem right, BTW, what would happen to racicals buff? wil they be replaced or just removed?

what i did like was the pvp change, kinda sortet pvp and pve (i hope)
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Exaros
Chamber of Aspects
Exaros
02/03/2012
AWESOME! with other words i can do some raids with pvp gear then? sweet!!!
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Jickarnik
Laughing Skull
Jickarnik
02/03/2012
Hunters need expertise.... nothing to do here, bye.
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Kalesh
Twisting Nether
Kalesh
02/03/2012
@Jickarnik: agree, wtf are u guys thinking?! hunters are now officially useless, gj, damn morons
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Khaldion
Zenedar
Khaldion
02/03/2012
@Jickarnik: Trolled. Hunters with expertise, that sucks badly... :-D
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Chillzy
Stormscale
Chillzy
02/03/2012
@Jickarnik: Tbh i think its a really good idea hunters attacks should have a chance to be dodged
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Karzonyx
Aszune
Karzonyx
03/03/2012
@Chillzy: yes only dodged tho and maybe not even that a 15ft high 7ft wide behemoth can dodge an arrow moving at like 50mph dont think so and they shouldnt be parryable hows gunna that work you cut it in half ?
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Pisholina
Sylvanas
Pisholina
02/03/2012
I want to address a couple of things regarding these changes.
1. If spell resistance is being removed, what is going to happen with Paladin's Resistance Aura and Priest's Shadow Protection? I know Shaman buff totems will be removed so I didn't include that.
2. Why would you want to rename resilience? "PvP Defense" and "PvP power" seem so bland and not creative names.
3. With this setup, healers seem more entitled to wear PvP gear in PvE environment with "PvP power" increasing healing done to players.

I like the changes overall minus the PvP power for healers.
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Julliusbp
Neptulon
Julliusbp
02/03/2012
@Pisholina: Did you fail to read it, or understand it?
"none of these are PERMANENT/"forged in stone" changes.

And second, they just remove the resistance? whats NOT to understand?

If u have a buff/aura they just remove, maybe they replace it with something else, who knows?
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Pisholina
Sylvanas
Pisholina
02/03/2012
@Julliusbp: That's exactly what I'm asking. Are they going to be removed or are they going to be changed to like -10% spell damage taken. Because if Blizzard removes the spell, the class loses utility.

Also: Blizzard put this out here for us to read and discuss about it. I never said that this was set in stone, so don't tell me I fail at reading when you fail at common sense of having to discuss and question the changes they want to do.
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Glox
Twisting Nether
Glox
02/03/2012
To all whiners. maybe you should try the new game before you complain?
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Ironart
Earthen Ring
Ironart
02/03/2012
@Glox: +1
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Shambunny
Blade's Edge
Shambunny
02/03/2012
@Glox: very much agreed
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Eproxler
Rexxar
Eproxler
02/03/2012
@Glox: +2
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Ariusthepure
Bronze Dragonflight
Ariusthepure
02/03/2012
@Glox: To the people who think its awesome: maybe you can play all the aspects of the game before complaining at those who share their opinion?
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Sinarin
Silvermoon
Sinarin
02/03/2012
What is wrong with these stats the way they are today?
Less stats is not always more.

One change I personally think should be implemented in PvP is to make it a way of leveling i.e. providing gear while leveling in PvP instead of useing BoA gear along with quest or dungeon gear.

Best Regards