Cataclysm Post Mortem — Dungeons and Raids with Scott “Daelo” Mercer

Cataclysm Post Mortem — Dungeons and Raids with Scott “Daelo” Mercer

As a part of our post mortem series on Cataclysm, we sat down with World of Warcraft Lead Encounter Designer Scott “Daelo” Mercer to hear his thoughts on Cataclysm dungeons and raids.

Q. What were your main goals going into Cataclysm?
We really wanted to make sure we were creating new challenges, strong mechanics, and cool creatures while staying true to the expansion and the themes we wanted to carry out. The three raid dungeons came out well and we had a lot of fun bringing the story of Nefarian and the Twilight’s Hammer to life. We were also able to add some dynamic mechanics in Throne of the Four Winds, which featured players moving across multiple platforms.

Q. How did this evolve over the various content patches?
Zul’Gurub and Zul’Aman were entertaining raids with diverse mechanics, and they translated well when we converted them into Heroic dungeons for patch 4.1. Interesting mechanics and features that once were restricted to raids are now finding their way into our five-player dungeons.

Adding the Dungeon Journal in patch 4.2 was also a major step forward. We wanted to be able to share more information in the game so that players wouldn’t feel the need to go look everything up on external websites. While those sites are great at what they do, we felt like we needed to try to alleviate the need to go out of the game to find the information players wanted to see.

The addition of Raid Finder in patch 4.3 also opened up more opportunities for players to be able to experience our raid content. The feature has proven to be extremely popular, and not just with people who had given up on raiding. Many players use Raid Finder to gear up their secondary characters, gain Valor for the week, or just because it’s fun.

Q. What do you think worked best?
We’ve been reasonably successful with our tuning across all four raid difficulty modes. There were a few warts here and there, but we delivered on the idea that 10-player and 25-player raids could exist at a similar difficulty. We also had some memorable dungeons and cinematic moments in Cataclysm. I’m particularly fond of the interactive bombing run in Grim Batol involving the red drakes. Players really got a sense of the epic scale of Grim Batol, and how well they performed in the event could make clearing the rest of the dungeon much easier.

With our improved tools and the experience we’ve gained over the years, we’ve become better at finding ways to explain the mechanics of our encounters. Our bosses do a better job of warning players of incoming threats. In Dragon Soul we also began to better inform players of mechanics that caused them to die. Providing a better understanding of the encounters to players is an important goal. We feel that losing to a boss and not understanding why is frustrating, just as beating a boss and not understanding why you won is not as satisfying.

Q. What didn’t work out as planned or expected?
Initially, we started off the Heroic dungeons at too high of a difficulty. The difficulty level rather abruptly changed when compared to the Heroics players experienced at the end of Wrath of the Lich King. This major change caught many players off guard, and frustrated some of them. The difficulty also increased the effective amount of time required to complete a dungeon to a longer experience than we wanted. With the release of patch 4.3 we’re now in a much better place. We’ve always talked about being able to complete a dungeon over lunch, and the Hour of Twilight dungeons get us back to that goal. End Time, Well of Eternity, and Hour of Twilight all provide epic play experiences to our players, but at the real sweet spot of difficulty, complexity, and time commitment.

Q. Was there anything that surprised you about how players reacted to a particular encounter?
Not particularly. Something we’ve learned over the years is to expect the unexpected. The community is very creative and intelligent. The most important thing for us is that players are having fun. They often find interesting ways of approaching things that maybe we didn’t expect, but as long the creative solution is still fun for everyone, we usually don’t have a problem with it.

Q. What have you learned from Cataclysm and what are some of your top goals for Mists of Pandaria?
We learned we could create a crazy encounter like the Spine of Deathwing. It took a lot of hard work from the whole team and it was a difficult design challenge to tackle. How do you orchestrate a fight on the back of a gigantic flying dragon without inducing nausea? How do we make sure you feel like you’re on Deathwing? Delivering that experience was really important and everyone wanted the opportunity to work on it. What was really great was that we launched the story of Cataclysm with the cinematic that showed Deathwing having his elementium plates being put on, then we end the expansion with those very same plates being torn off. It gives some real closure to storyline.

For Mists of Pandaria, we will continue to provide new dungeons and raids while also presenting interesting new types of content in the form of challenge modes and scenarios. Players will also be introduced to new enemies in the Sha, Mogu, and Mantids. Making those creatures come to life will be a lot of fun.

Q. Do you have a favorite dungeon or encounter from Cataclysm?
There are so many. The Conclave of Wind was a great one. Working out interesting mechanics that allowed players to go from platform to platform was a lot of fun and the environment felt really epic. A fight like that was a goal of the encounter team for a very long time.

Blackwing Descent was another favorite and working out the mechanics for the Atramedes fight gave us a lot to think about. How do you create an encounter with a blind dragon that fights? So we gave him sonar and showed the interaction with a sound meter on the player’s UI.

In Bastion of Twilight, we really got to sell the corruption angle on Cho’gall which made for another really interesting fight.

Q. Is there a certain mechanic that you always wanted to do but couldn’t do prior to Cataclysm?
Not really. There are so many cool ideas to work with that I never feel held back. It’s easy to be creatively inspired by the people around you and their energy. It’s never a problem of coming up with ideas. It’s usually deciding which ones we want to go with next, but the possibilities are endless.

Q. Do you have a “dream” dungeon or encounter that you’d like to create if you had the opportunity?
I’ve never felt that I haven’t been able to do the things I want to do. Everyone on the team is completely dedicated to giving us unlimited opportunities to make epic and awesome experiences. But, if I have to mention something, it would be huge giant death robots. We had Mimiron in Ulduar, but you just can’t have too many death robots.

Q. Thank you for your time, Scott.
You’re welcome.

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Comments (250)

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Ladria
Frostwhisper
Ladria
12/03/2012
The new dungeons was fun in the start of the expansion. But I have to agree with the people below that talks about all of the "easy tools" etc are killing the teamwork and the politeness!
I came back from a several month long playing break, joined a new guild(since my guild had changed server). Several weeks in, I dont really know anyone in it, because I never need help for anything and they dont need help. Its all about randoms these days.. *sigh*
I`d rather have Vanilla and TBC back - you earned your gear, got to know people and had way more fun trying to figure out what had to be done for Qs, dungeons and raids!
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
12/03/2012
i started playing wow because it looked mid-evil....4years later they start talking about a panda.....blizz just send a mail to all y'r players ask them one question. do you like mid-evil??? my gues all wil say YES . did they had teddy bears in mid -evil times???make the game adult or ya gonna loos more players...and for the moment i'm thinking why the hell i'm trying to help ya out ya never lissen...
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Camudin
Al'Akir
Camudin
12/03/2012
@Kawake: Before you talk about makeing the game for more of an adult audience, could you please learn to spell. Honastly i have seen 5 year olds spell better then that, your grammer is a disgrace.
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Daltízar
Stormrage
Daltízar
13/03/2012
@Camudin: Before you talk about someone's grammar, you may want to make sure yours is correct.
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
13/03/2012
@Camudin: well blizz i'm not gonna say evry time sorry for my english ... i learned speaking and writing from television whate is ure excuus??? never had english at school so tell smart guy whate the fuk is y'r problem.... can you read whate i type??? do you understand whate i type??? if ya can't well never mind then.
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
13/03/2012
@Daltízar: thx for standing up for me. i saluut you
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Jokar
Agamaggan
Jokar
13/03/2012
@Daltízar: lol, dumb !@#$'s nowadays eh
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Chäse
Shadowsong
Chäse
14/03/2012
@Kawake you know you can't just change the lore of wow, did they have robots in mid evil times ????, and if they remove the robots then they have to change gnomes. They have to do the pandarian thing, they have planned that since the beginning of wow since the pandarian was one big mistery in the previous warcraft game so they need to give us an answer. and sorry for my grammar my first language is just not english
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Tosuro
Sunstrider
Tosuro
23/03/2012
@Kawake: what the holy whale is mid-evil ¿?¿? O.o
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
12/03/2012
lol like i said.... after the panda ..... i big duck that say's I'LL BE BACK....shooting shells from a bazoka arm or so.....kwak kwak omg
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Destrokill
Terenas
Destrokill
15/03/2012
@Kawake: dude if you hate wow so much why dont you just quit and stop complaining about wow here.
the only thing you are reaching with this is annoying people.
A game is ment to be fun so if you dont think it is fun stop playing the game go play rift or something.
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Darkhóof
Darkspear
Darkhóof
16/03/2012
@Kawake: lol people like you make me laugh so hard, people who play wow yet have no idea about lore or any story aspect/relevence of a species or npc in the game, the pandaria have a large chunk of lore behind them, a lot more so than, for instance, the draenei, people who think "derp derp its just kung fu panda wow herpyderp" really need to look at dates and realise kungfu panda probably copied the pandarians. go read the wow lore,or at least enough to outsmart me, then come back and you will realise what a dumbass you have actually been :D
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Baradûr
Bladefist
Baradûr
28/03/2012
@Darkhóof: nice one dude :D
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Messler
Stormscale
Messler
12/03/2012
The Hour of Twilight patch made some interesting changes to raiding and dungeons, making them more alive and made people interested in the lore behind them and the lore of Neltharion (DW). But on the other hand... The dungeons are far too easy and the same goes for the Dragon Soul raid. Scott... your saying that the difficultly in the new dungeons is what you were aiming for... I really hope you’re joking, really. As Vázlyra pointed out people are throwing away some of the values, that once made the game so great. I really hope to see the difficultly of Grim Batol in MoP. But I will say that the new UI mechanics in the raids are well made. I hope to see more of the live action, but still make it so teamwork is needed in order to progress in both PvE and PvP.
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Messler
Stormscale
Messler
12/03/2012
PS: Please revive divine intervention :D
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Darkhóof
Darkspear
Darkhóof
16/03/2012
@Messler: YES its so nice to see someone refer to deathwing by his true name I have the upmost respect of people calling him Neltharion or Xaxus (nelf name for dw) I agree that raiding is now too easy but as I used to pvp starting out raiding was previously too laborious for me to try, but when raid finder came along it aloud me to get my basic raid gear, I believe raid finder should remain easy yet dropping pretty shoddy gear but then boosting the deficulty of other settings, maybe even making it so raid finder drops superior gear not epic but also has the full tactics of main raid just dulled down a bit so ppl can get to know the tacts of the raid rather than getting good gear because id rather have an undergeared person who new tacts than a amazingly geared person who hadnt a clue
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Vázlyra
Stormrage
Vázlyra
12/03/2012
Heroics 5-mans are easy as hell. with just a slight sense of teamwork and some knowledge of your class you can do them and even the achievements with minimum gear requirements... too bad LFG system kills PvE were you get thrown into a random group of unknown players who refuge to cooperate most of the time and just being offensive and far from polite.

as for raiding, same crap as dungeons. LFR worst thing ever, nobody is polite, noone knows what to do yet everyone gets their epics. and heroic mode is just there to temorary satisfy the hardcore players from complaining about or leaving the game.

biggest issue of LFG and LFR: it kills the community. guilds,friends,grouping-up, knowledge and teamwork is overrated except for hardcore PvE'ers. hell, whithout guildperks guilds would be totally useless and only optional for the majority of the playerbase.
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Franu
Stormreaver
Franu
12/03/2012
@Vázlyra: OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN, GRAB YOUR HELMETS!
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Eldanor
Eonar
Eldanor
19/03/2012
@Vázlyra: There are different levels of difficulty in raids to suit the individual, the LFR is normally used as a pre cursor to the normal Ds progression by some, and the gear stats reflect the type of raids you have done, but it seems no matter what blizzard do people still complain, 4.3 caters for every type of player and anyone not happy.... Well they can always press the cancel subscription.

The game does not change it evolves to reflect the types of gamers we have, some prefer pvp like you, others prefer the different difficulty levels of raids which is now much more flexible and caters for all types of raiders, so i fail to see your problem :)
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Eldanor
Eonar
Eldanor
19/03/2012
@Vázlyra: Additional - Before you complain that this and that is too easy, you may want to try more than 2 bosses in LFr and try normal Ds or heroic, just saying:)
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Josje
Ravencrest
Josje
11/03/2012
agreed with previous posts. Ever since wotlk dungeons are just tank and spank, no more CC. It's no challange at all, is this because Blizzard wants to make this game for 'everyone'? It's not called Heroic for nothing i presume. Sitting back spamming the same heals on a tank who just charges in every pack he sees is getting so boring...
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Wofltree
Chamber of Aspects
Wofltree
10/03/2012
imo the difficulty of the heroics on release was pretty adequate tbh thats why they introduced ilevel lockouts on heroics so you had the gear you just needed to practice your skill people shouldnt moan about a game showing a level of difficulty just because they cant be bothered develop theyre skill level
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I really disagree with the "heroics where too hard"-talk too.

Just as the previous poster said, SH and several other HC Dungeons in BC still ranks amongst some of the most fun I've had doing dungeons in WoW, simply because the challenge was just really really high. Even after you'd started raiding and had a few purples, you actually still had to think and CC and watch your health/threat/mana when running them, otherwise you could easily die.

Hopefully the new challenge mode dungeons will bring back some of that feel again though. Here's hoping :)
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Defer
Frostmane
Defer
09/03/2012
The "Hour of Twilight" dungeons are fun art and concept, but boring gameplay. You can single-key tank/heal/dps them, no interaction at all.

I miss the BC heroics. It was months before I first finished SH heroic, and it felt like real accomplishment when I did. (I still have the screenshot!) And when I fly over Mana Tombs I remember the runs I did there.
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Shapeit
Frostmane
Shapeit
09/03/2012
can only agree with the previous statement, that the beginning of cataclysm was as good as it was in the vanilla days. only reason it was "hard" and took to long were because people being dicks. back in the days there were never a question on why you should use CC and why should i wait for the tank to get aggro? why shouldnt i go all out from the start, why should i check my health bar and wonder why my health is dropping so rapidly. these days its all about stareing on recount and get the purple in the end, cause we all know its about how much dps and how good your gear is. No! bring back the mystic of raiding, MC, BWL, Naxx, those were raids, really fun raids, when its was about the satisfaction of downing a boss and not about just going in to get your purple. please blizzard, stop being sellouts, give us back WoW as it ones was
(sorry for spelling)
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Nofake
Dalaran
Nofake
09/03/2012
"Heroic were too hard." What a joke! I finally had some fun when I had my first 85 char in the beginning of Cataclysm and I started heroics. We actually had to use CC's, which isn't the case anymore with the recent nerfs... Don't make this game so easy, Blizzard! Come on... Even raids have become too easy. Happy we got HM's for them :)
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Ralidor
Nordrassil
Ralidor
09/03/2012
Is the HoT dungeons at the right difficult level? HAHAH how fun is it to know that you are gonna win all the time?
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Highgradé
Terenas
Highgradé
09/03/2012
P.S for you guys who let your kids play this, this is not a healthy thing for a 6yr old to play, so when he is 14 and weigh as much as a small family car, think back to these days when you planted the gamer seed so early, imo get some fresh air.
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Highgradé
Terenas
Highgradé
09/03/2012
the only good raid since tbc raiding was Ulduar, bring back the guys who developed these raids and the mechanics for MoP, failing that, this Die hard gammer of 6+ years will be walking, this new content is just faceroll, there is very little sence of achiviement left, i mean deathwing is a dragon thats supposedly terrorised the world for years yet the no1 guild on my server had it cleared in 9hours of it going live, thats just not cricket imo, also PLEASE do a revamp of Kara <3 scale to suit the player level cap and maybe slightly change the encounters but for me kara bt and swp were some of blizzards best works. <3 tbc.
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Thewaylander
Bloodhoof
Thewaylander
08/03/2012
Have to admit I agree with a large proportion of the sentiment here. Lunch time dungeons oh dear, difficulty of 5 mans at the start, not bad could of been tougher in my view, and raid content i just couldn't be bothered with after the pain of Wrath.

Most of the comments for how the game is intended to go disappoint me greatly, if the difficulty looks to be the same as the last 3 released i may just have to vote with my feet after playing since week one of release in Europe.

I enjoyed ZA/ZG i must admit the balance was strong you made a mistake you died simple.. but the gearing level was awful and as soon as the raid was released the points gear was so much higher it made any drops from 5 man pointless righting of a whole section of gearing in moments very bad planning.

On the whole i'm an unexcited player at the moment feeling i have very little to look forward too
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Wiséchris
Ravencrest
Wiséchris
08/03/2012
Well to say the truth i dont like new wow as i did wowLk expansion...I believe all the mystery and adventure is gone and its become more like a money game than funny...class doesnt matter anymore you just do what is most dmg and not what you realy like and feel like .. wow thats cool,hey look Paladins are so cool they fight using the power of the light and all.Its more like hey you are Druid that sucks,aha i am rogue i do more dmg!!!Game is ruined no more classic things and fun no more Role Play!!BRING IT BACK PLEASE
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Valhor
Mazrigos
Valhor
08/03/2012
@Wiséchris: i agree.. i miss the adventure too. WoW losts its magic touch
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Imbahaxxor
Ragnaros
Imbahaxxor
08/03/2012
@Wiséchris: Well stop play then instead of cumplaining
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
12/03/2012
@Imbahaxxor: we will BLIZZY
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Velissa
Burning Legion
Velissa
08/03/2012
Cata is the worst expansion in wow history.And gz blizzard on dumbing game to 1+... Really gj!Are you proud of yourself now,blizzard?Money ruined your game, you're so greedy.Also you taken away 100% fun from WoW, bring it back!!!
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Archofdeath
Bronzebeard
Archofdeath
08/03/2012
Make heroics, heroic. And normals, normal.

At the release of Cata I was glad to see some challenging dungeons and raids. I found myself queuing in normals to get get even though I was eligible to enter heroics. And it was fun, but then you nerfed it and it became another borIng grind for gear. Nothing keeping me on edge, no more need for Crowd control.
The nerf on dungeons and raids sucked the fun out of it all. As a hunter I can solo any heroic now. Hell even as a rogue I can solo most.
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Ignotus
Drak'thul
Ignotus
08/03/2012
Got an idea! IF hardcore raiding isnt for everyone, meaning either hardcore players dont want any regular guy to obtain achievements?, gear, etc from Heroic raids or casual people doesnt have time to study encounters/their class and find stable hardcore raiding group, why there isnt a choice of paying slightly lower monthly fees (for example 8 euros) per month while disabling choice of entering heroic raids.

See ive never been able to find a group of that capable players to finish first boss in BWD on HC even in 378 gear so why would i pay for something i cant actually have? Instead ive focused on normal (or LFR) modes while being able to HOPE for one day when i meet the right people to raid heroic raids. Actually i would rather let hardcore players have their benefit and sacrifice possible choice of grouping for heroic raid while paying less monthly subscription as mine advantage. Dont wanna pay for a promise/possibility/choice of hardcore raiding.

Thats just an idea its not moaning or complaining.
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Kawake
Shattered Hand
Kawake
12/03/2012
@Ignotus: so y'r not moaning??? just leave or beter can somebody kick this blizzy
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Druidiski
Eonar
Druidiski
07/03/2012
I have 2 son's . one is 6 yrs old,,, walking around with 3 level 85 characters.
iLvL 390....
he wants to do the real raiding now, ....
i gues thats the point, allot of peeps here trying to make.
its a kids gameboy game,,, its not the hardcore juvenile adult game...you don't need wits and skill.. you just need balls or cohones like a bull, to ride on the backs of skilled players, to get your gear...epic bust..

if a 6 yr old can do it,, what kinda game is this than? i mean,, i helped the kid here and there, but the solo heroic dungeon runs,, wel, he did em wile i was out working..

Iski..

you dont need skills to play this game,,, a kid kan do it better than you..
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Clom
Darkmoon Faire
Clom
07/03/2012
@Druidiski: i think your right, im 14 but ive been a good player for a while because im not as stupid as most teens, however i barely have ANY time on my hands (certainly no time in the day) so i cant get into a real raid, and also... your son has better gear :(