Cataclysm Post Mortem — Dungeons and Raids with Scott “Daelo” Mercer

Cataclysm Post Mortem — Dungeons and Raids with Scott “Daelo” Mercer

As a part of our post mortem series on Cataclysm, we sat down with World of Warcraft Lead Encounter Designer Scott “Daelo” Mercer to hear his thoughts on Cataclysm dungeons and raids.

Q. What were your main goals going into Cataclysm?
We really wanted to make sure we were creating new challenges, strong mechanics, and cool creatures while staying true to the expansion and the themes we wanted to carry out. The three raid dungeons came out well and we had a lot of fun bringing the story of Nefarian and the Twilight’s Hammer to life. We were also able to add some dynamic mechanics in Throne of the Four Winds, which featured players moving across multiple platforms.

Q. How did this evolve over the various content patches?
Zul’Gurub and Zul’Aman were entertaining raids with diverse mechanics, and they translated well when we converted them into Heroic dungeons for patch 4.1. Interesting mechanics and features that once were restricted to raids are now finding their way into our five-player dungeons.

Adding the Dungeon Journal in patch 4.2 was also a major step forward. We wanted to be able to share more information in the game so that players wouldn’t feel the need to go look everything up on external websites. While those sites are great at what they do, we felt like we needed to try to alleviate the need to go out of the game to find the information players wanted to see.

The addition of Raid Finder in patch 4.3 also opened up more opportunities for players to be able to experience our raid content. The feature has proven to be extremely popular, and not just with people who had given up on raiding. Many players use Raid Finder to gear up their secondary characters, gain Valor for the week, or just because it’s fun.

Q. What do you think worked best?
We’ve been reasonably successful with our tuning across all four raid difficulty modes. There were a few warts here and there, but we delivered on the idea that 10-player and 25-player raids could exist at a similar difficulty. We also had some memorable dungeons and cinematic moments in Cataclysm. I’m particularly fond of the interactive bombing run in Grim Batol involving the red drakes. Players really got a sense of the epic scale of Grim Batol, and how well they performed in the event could make clearing the rest of the dungeon much easier.

With our improved tools and the experience we’ve gained over the years, we’ve become better at finding ways to explain the mechanics of our encounters. Our bosses do a better job of warning players of incoming threats. In Dragon Soul we also began to better inform players of mechanics that caused them to die. Providing a better understanding of the encounters to players is an important goal. We feel that losing to a boss and not understanding why is frustrating, just as beating a boss and not understanding why you won is not as satisfying.

Q. What didn’t work out as planned or expected?
Initially, we started off the Heroic dungeons at too high of a difficulty. The difficulty level rather abruptly changed when compared to the Heroics players experienced at the end of Wrath of the Lich King. This major change caught many players off guard, and frustrated some of them. The difficulty also increased the effective amount of time required to complete a dungeon to a longer experience than we wanted. With the release of patch 4.3 we’re now in a much better place. We’ve always talked about being able to complete a dungeon over lunch, and the Hour of Twilight dungeons get us back to that goal. End Time, Well of Eternity, and Hour of Twilight all provide epic play experiences to our players, but at the real sweet spot of difficulty, complexity, and time commitment.

Q. Was there anything that surprised you about how players reacted to a particular encounter?
Not particularly. Something we’ve learned over the years is to expect the unexpected. The community is very creative and intelligent. The most important thing for us is that players are having fun. They often find interesting ways of approaching things that maybe we didn’t expect, but as long the creative solution is still fun for everyone, we usually don’t have a problem with it.

Q. What have you learned from Cataclysm and what are some of your top goals for Mists of Pandaria?
We learned we could create a crazy encounter like the Spine of Deathwing. It took a lot of hard work from the whole team and it was a difficult design challenge to tackle. How do you orchestrate a fight on the back of a gigantic flying dragon without inducing nausea? How do we make sure you feel like you’re on Deathwing? Delivering that experience was really important and everyone wanted the opportunity to work on it. What was really great was that we launched the story of Cataclysm with the cinematic that showed Deathwing having his elementium plates being put on, then we end the expansion with those very same plates being torn off. It gives some real closure to storyline.

For Mists of Pandaria, we will continue to provide new dungeons and raids while also presenting interesting new types of content in the form of challenge modes and scenarios. Players will also be introduced to new enemies in the Sha, Mogu, and Mantids. Making those creatures come to life will be a lot of fun.

Q. Do you have a favorite dungeon or encounter from Cataclysm?
There are so many. The Conclave of Wind was a great one. Working out interesting mechanics that allowed players to go from platform to platform was a lot of fun and the environment felt really epic. A fight like that was a goal of the encounter team for a very long time.

Blackwing Descent was another favorite and working out the mechanics for the Atramedes fight gave us a lot to think about. How do you create an encounter with a blind dragon that fights? So we gave him sonar and showed the interaction with a sound meter on the player’s UI.

In Bastion of Twilight, we really got to sell the corruption angle on Cho’gall which made for another really interesting fight.

Q. Is there a certain mechanic that you always wanted to do but couldn’t do prior to Cataclysm?
Not really. There are so many cool ideas to work with that I never feel held back. It’s easy to be creatively inspired by the people around you and their energy. It’s never a problem of coming up with ideas. It’s usually deciding which ones we want to go with next, but the possibilities are endless.

Q. Do you have a “dream” dungeon or encounter that you’d like to create if you had the opportunity?
I’ve never felt that I haven’t been able to do the things I want to do. Everyone on the team is completely dedicated to giving us unlimited opportunities to make epic and awesome experiences. But, if I have to mention something, it would be huge giant death robots. We had Mimiron in Ulduar, but you just can’t have too many death robots.

Q. Thank you for your time, Scott.
You’re welcome.

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Comments (250)

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Hammermann
Aszune
Hammermann
18/04/2012
ye nice
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Bloodymaryz
Agamaggan
Bloodymaryz
16/04/2012
good looking
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Lunarproof
Frostwhisper
Lunarproof
13/04/2012
I'm with Namari down here, but i have an idea, Construct a mechanic that lets players to choose wich level of heroic they want to play? easy, normal, hard. Ofc it might give the ques abit of a troubble but id rather sit in que for 10 mins and get in a group where we all want to have a challenge, fight bosses that actually is hard. and not end up in an instant que pop with players that doesnt know a thing about their class. its just and idea!
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Namari
The Sha'tar
Namari
13/04/2012
'initially we started heroic dungeons at too high difficulty' If that is what the designers think, I don't have overly high hopes for MoP. At the start the heroics were perfect, then they were nerfed to boring faceroll that you could do on your sleep. :/ I want more heroic dungeons like pre-nerf Shattered Halls, Arcatraz, and Shadow Labyrinth. Those were some of the best ever made.
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Hydrule
Darksorrow
Hydrule
07/04/2012
challenges sounds great. How many times have you been in an instance. and people take ages to come in or lag behind. Also there is the pls loot all for skining idiots out there. Well you skinners and i have one so i know what i am going on about lol. Will have to skin from mobs like they used too. Instead of making our dungeons longer by asking players to loot all skinable bad guys lol.
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Relevant
Nagrand
Relevant
05/04/2012
Pkunk, i love the idea of having your own base a to upgrade etc with challenges, that wuld add an extra pesonal touch to the story telling aspect of the game. I also agree about the dungeon challenges, just so long as they dont go too hard. When dungs get too difficult, new players or those just beginning to gear up, tend to get kicked etc.
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Pkunk
Destromath
Pkunk
04/04/2012
How about a persistent instance per player? You'd have your own fortress you have to upgrade, build up and defend against random encounters, that provide unique tactical challenges. You can either help others or others help you fight for your personal castle. When you win the fight, you can pick an upgrade.

I really liked the initial challenge of of cata hero dungeons. Unfortunately it quickly got very easy. End of time was far to easy again. I fear the "challenge modes" in mop will only induce stress with timers. I think if dungeons are hard to beat, players are more interested in playing together instead of a quick grind, and feel excited about a victory.
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Zelphium
Kul Tiras
Zelphium
30/03/2012
A huge congratulations to all those involved in the design of instances. They have been superb, respect is due. I did really like the way the heroics in cata were quite tricky. It brought back memories of heroics in TBC. I think it's a great struggle, trying to gear up when everyone needs stuff and you are a little short on heals, protection and dps. It only lasts for a short while when the expansion comes out, doesn't it? After that you end up with OP group members that make it easy. Patch day heaven!
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Zelphium
Kul Tiras
Zelphium
30/03/2012
I always really liked BRD because it was so massive, you could spend an afternoon in a group lost in that amazing place. I wonder if, to satisfy the old schoolers, we could have some large instances for 5 mans. Perhaps they could be excluded from LFG, so that we could form groups in realm and form bonds with new people, something that really disappeared with LFG. LFG is great, don't get me wrong, and I realise why people have these 20 minute instances, because not everyone can sit and play for hours. But do we really have to have a 1 size fits all jack of all trades instance? There's no reason why there shouldn't be the occasional sprawling dungeon while levelling either. Just for those that like it. WoW made epic mean something different. I would love to see an epic 5 man I would have to ask my friends to join me in, and we could have fun together, and maybe make some new friendships. And not just rote keyboard bashing but challenges as well, maybe optional things such as especially difficult parts of the instance. This was always where TBC (and I presume classic) was brilliant, the way it brought everyone together. Since LFG it seems that has died a death, for me at least, and now it's like a single player game you play with human controlled bots. Just a thought. I think it would have to be excluded from LFG to really work best though.
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Zelphium
Kul Tiras
Zelphium
30/03/2012
There does seem to be this idea that you actually have to complete an instance. If there was an optional boss you could have a few goes and you could see if you were going to manage it or if you wanted to leave it. There could also be things that require preparation, like the DM tribute run. Something that appeals immensely to certain types of people. We don't get rid of arena because not everyone does it. Why do all 5 mans have to be for everyone?
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Zelphium
Kul Tiras
Zelphium
30/03/2012
My 10 year old has been raiding for 2 years now and he's better than I am. Once you start getting a little older your brain just isn't quite as sharp. Noone's ever suspected he's that old or had a problem with him, but if they find out he's young they find excuses to kick. People live in their own alternate reality based on their prejudices. It's so true, but maturity doesn't correspond with age.
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Tirionn
Azjol-Nerub
Tirionn
29/03/2012
honestly... i hate kids in all games
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Dránnbar
Hellscream
Dránnbar
25/04/2012
@Tirionn: You say you hate kids? Your armory is crap. You probably get taken over by kids and you're mad about it.
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Eqoiuz
Lightbringer
Eqoiuz
28/03/2012
So fun to see ppl talking about kids cant raid... im 14 years old and have 6/8 ds hc as resto shammy healer. ( some adult are noob too......
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Baradûr
Bladefist
Baradûr
28/03/2012
@Eqoiuz: ye youre right dude
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Holybinder
Kazzak
Holybinder
31/03/2012
@Eqoiuz: you are totaly right
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Grømush
Twilight's Hammer
Grømush
04/04/2012
@Eqoiuz: And again you are right
i have friend resto shammy healer 8/8 ds too but 13 years old
and yes many adults have no brain
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Tashley
Argent Dawn
Tashley
13/04/2012
@Eqoiuz: You're absolutely right. Myself I'm 13 years old, and I'm a decent PvPer, tanked 4/8 DS with my DK (Until I didn't like it anymore). Actually, some kids are better at the bloody game than some adults are. *Nods*
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Mistia
Crushridge
Mistia
28/03/2012
da heler non sono tanto facili
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Jaybo
Shadowsong
Jaybo
28/03/2012
looks ok even though i never readed it
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Qeeqaz
Ravencrest
Qeeqaz
28/03/2012
Cool
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Kasmie
Talnivarr
Kasmie
26/03/2012
Good but I didn't read
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Giack
Ghostlands
Giack
26/03/2012
raiding all the time with !@#$ kids is not cool :-((
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Maxionne
Spinebreaker
Maxionne
23/03/2012
i raid is cool
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Leopardtank
Saurfang
Leopardtank
23/03/2012
the ever maked raid is and stay ulduar. no raid is better.
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Hydrule
Darksorrow
Hydrule
22/03/2012
I rember when cata first came out people where saying how challenging the dungeons where in comparison to wotlk. Before luck of the draw buff ilv increase it was hard to clear a hc. Now its a walk in the park of course. I have even seen healers trying to heal hc with 68k mana, tanks with 140k hp on hc?. World of noobcraft is more like it now, both of them examples where terrible players too rofl. Before luck of the draw you needed about 80k mana to heal a hc and have some hope. Now people are clearing dungeons and getting higher ilvs, only to do 4k dps on raid finder happy days!!.
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Heevy
Sylvanas
Heevy
22/03/2012
I love how half of the people who whine about wow not being hard enough, never seems to have cleared any heroic content, imo cataclysm had a lot of good heroic bosses, and i cant wait for the new expansion, its not about Pandas to me, at this point its about the lore, and i think its good that blizzard are sticking to it.
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Assashihn
Terenas
Assashihn
21/03/2012
Yeh new raids !!!
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Healmans
Outland
Healmans
19/03/2012
I CANT DOWNLOAD THE F*****G 4.3.3!!
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Moóoóoóoó
Agamaggan
Moóoóoóoó
19/03/2012
Mooo
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Trandosy
Grim Batol
Trandosy
17/03/2012
Cookies and cheese!
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Alliman
Emeriss
Alliman
17/03/2012
Initially, we started off the Heroic dungeons at too high of a difficulty. ---- Really .. didn't seem to me so...

With the release of patch 4.3 we’re now in a much better place. ---- Yeah, if u assume all we r 6 yrs old ...

On 4.3 to wipe in a Heroic Dungeon was like impossible. I did updated from 4.2, went to Dungeon Finder, Took 1 hour and like 20-30 mins to run over them without even been able to watch any guide howto do it. Without even read what abilities does any boss has. Without an actuall fun.

I was really happy having Cata starting dungeons, they felt right. They were perfect difficulty. Ppl must wipe and progress, aint no fun in just simple loot farming.
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Tibsy
Quel'Thalas
Tibsy
16/03/2012
flying on the Red Drakes is deffinately NOT fun. its a drag. :) but i can see what he meant, first time round its pretty cool but 50 times over its just gash. also, make another ulduar please, please...please? :(
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Rofferoff
Kazzak
Rofferoff
15/03/2012
Man that was interesting
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Ragerex
Agamaggan
Ragerex
15/03/2012
my name is cool but not cooler than this
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Tallath
Aggramar
Tallath
15/03/2012
Lot of posts mention the death of 25 man raiding....difficulty etc has nothing to do with it..the biggest reason has been making i lvl drops the same as 10 man..why would anyone try to fight bosses with 25 man mechanics when they can get exactly the same i lvl gear in 10 mans. They need to be half a tier higher like they were in LK etc and 25s would start being run once again
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Rizzie
Defias Brotherhood
Rizzie
14/03/2012
It seems evident (to me, at least) that WoW was not designed to be a single player game. However, what has happened recently (as in, for this expansion) is that it has become this way. I understand some players may want to feel immersed in a particular storyline, however if that is the case there are many other SINGLE PLAYER games out there.
The hour of twilight dungeons are a great example of this. Sure, the first time you do them, its interesting, and even somewhat fun. However, surely we are all aware that heroics are something people will need to repeat in order to acquire gear; therefore, we essentially complete the same storyline 20+ times, on perhaps more than one character. This, for me, is a terrible idea. The dungeons were infinitely more engaging when it wasn't a tedious attempt at a storyline that was being pursued, but engaging mechanics and a degree of effort required.
Yes, I'm aware these points have probably been made by someone earlier, but ill reiterate it here. Why is it the case that people all must see the hardest difficultly? Should we be bowing to someone in full LFR gear and lowing the difficultly of raids so that person can see Deathwing heroic? To answer my own question, no. If this trend continues, at the rate that long-term players with some intelligence continue to leave, soon a player base will be left filled purely with people in their level 25 social guilds farming heroic raids on agility geared warlocks (and yes, there are some of those running around in LFR).
I hope greatly that I will be wrong, however the evidence presented from this interview fills me with a great deal of regret that I'm still paying money to be a part of this game.
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Cajlol
Silvermoon
Cajlol
14/03/2012
cata is a joke tbh, its soo lazy and boring, and was on the most part very easy. at the start gearing was good, then after that you just seemed to throw gear at people without them having to earn it. for instance, a guy in my guild dinged his hunter the other day. went from less than 300 item level, to over 372. in one bloody day. ONE DAY! from dinging 85 to joining lfr and being able to get gear that basically allows to to clear DS normal. so if you lucky with loot you can go and clear what is basically end game content the same day you ding? thats why this game is a joke. you dont earn it, you give it to people on a plate..
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Tosuro
Sunstrider
Tosuro
23/03/2012
@Cajlol: I lvled up a char in 5 days. Without RaF. The day I dinged 85 I already finished LFR. And finished my Valor cap. :)
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Dreadbane
Wildhammer
Dreadbane
14/03/2012
This entire interview was amazingly one sided, funny how there's no mention that the playerbase was divided on this at the very least, saying LFR was "popular" should have been LFR is "massively used" just because many deem it mandatory despite it's flaws in terms of loot and challenge does NOT mean that it was universally "liked"

clever wording, but all in all this seems like a fox news interview, bias to hell and back and quite inaccurate, though you'll get players like cuddling who think it's awesome and more power to them, when there's nothing left but a wow/farmville hybrid that plays more like gaia online than a true blooded MMORPG, then I'm sure you'll be real happy. Just PLEASE for the love of god STAY with wow, don't follow people to GW2 and start the cycle afresh.