Topic
PvP: Frost vs. Unholy
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Did some extensive testing, mostly without intention as it was mainly fending off gankers, and have discovered a few things: frost beats unholy hands down when we're talking solo pvp.
Unholy is NOT a solo pvp build. Sure it works, it's decent but has crap damage and it's balanced around tools. Your burst comes from popping cds which is slow as heck. 1st of all, you can forget about dark transformation, by the time you rake up 5 deathcoils it's likely either you or the opponent is almost dead so a DS will make little difference . Your burst comes from gargoyle, which is on a 3 min cd and that's it, shows over! Sure, unholy has tools but let's take a look at these tools: - high dot damage. These dots are incomparable in damage to a warlock's dot, spriest and miles away from a feral druid's dots. The damage is not something to drool over in the least. - uncleansable diseases. Really now ?!? Sure, they can't be cleansed if you have the deathcoil debuff on your opponent but there is also resilient infection granting you a free rune to reapply a disease everytime it's removed and frost can get that too in the pvp build. - Desecration. Not really specific to unholy, as frost can get Chilblains talent and glyped Howling Blast. There's your frosty desecration right there. What ? It's a 60% slow and Desecration is 50% ? QQ me a river over 10%. - AMS absorbs more damage before it disipates. AMS is NOT a reactive defensive cooldown. AMS's biggest use is to avoid CC, not really to absorb damage. In 90% of cases, AMS will dissipate simply because its duration ran out and not because someone nuked you. - AMZ. Ok, that's one, mostly a group pvp ability to protect a stationary healer or yourself while you are imobilized and some guy is "chargin his fireball". It's highly situational. - And we have discussed DS and Gargoyle a bit earlier. - Stun. Yes, that's one and a good one. What did Unholy used to have over Frost: - better Deathstrike heals. Deathstrike dealt damage and healed also based on the diseases you had on the target. One more disease (ebon plague) meant slightly higher heals. This is irrelevant now as deathstrike's heals are non existent for non-bloods. - faster ghoul sac. Before, it used to be a 3 sec. duration before summoning a ghoul and it becoming available for Death Pact. This is also irrelevant today as it happens instantly. Therefore, there is really no point in going unholy over frost for solo pvp and rated bgs. |
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Edited by Thadaeus on 17/12/10 14:09 (GMT)
Necrotic strike is not an unholy specific ability. It's available to all specs. Next! |
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You didnt understand it. NEXT! |
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Both specs are very viable for PVP. Its down to choice. Why must it be This spec is better than That spec? Dude a good player using his Fav spec will Pwn you regardless of your spec. Be good at your spec and play well and have fun.
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Edited by Lucajin on 17/12/10 21:26 (GMT)
Maybe im wrong but
frost = dw unholy = 2h (for performances in pvp) Its ur choise. Either u roll dualwielding or 2h, both specs are awesome. Imo frost is better than unholy due to low reliance on diseases. I also like it's chillblains combined with desecration, besides glyphed hungering cold equals cc tool that u can profit. 2/32/7 is awesome i think :) Eh maybe im wrong as i said, but this is how i feel about dks ;d Feel free to correct me. |
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Edited by Thadaeus on 17/12/10 22:27 (GMT)
No, dw has no place in pvp. Obliterate and frost strike crit way higher with a 2hander than dw. DW is for pve. |
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For me, unholy is only for arenas and bg when u have guaranteed heal - u have time to spread diseases . For solo pvp and random bgs - Frost 2h. Why? Bigger dmg in short time, HB, PS and boom with obliterate and frost strike.
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Always been unholy in pvp now i play frost and i like it alot more then unholy, feels liek unholy is all abotut the pets now which is boring.
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When doing BGs pre Cata as 2 hand Frost I was owing it up. But Frost spec as a whole has a lot going for it in the Rated BG stakes. Chillblains + Howling Blast = slowing a whole group of folks at a time. Imagine catching a flag carrier zerg coming out of the WSG tunnel with it. When they're all moving 50% slower that gives your team-mates much more extra time to rally an attack. It also serves as an annoyance tactic which may cause some to break from the group to try and deal with you which again, only boosts your teams chances of regaining your flag. If you were unholy you'd need to be in melee range to do that, you'd go splat, and it wouldn't last nearly as long. |
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Deathwalk summed up everything i dislike about UH atm, its all about the pet..ugly ugly pet...
i have a hunter if i want a pet class. |
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If DW is for PvE then why have i not managed to find anyone who gets close to me damage wise in PvP? Im normally 30% ahead of anyone in the BG (not with the best weapons either). I dont know maybe im just lucky all the time and everyone in my bgs are scrubs..... but to say DW is JUST for PvE is a bit ignorant to say the least. Give it a try u may like it.
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Edited by Thadaeus on 18/12/10 12:40 (GMT)
Do not confuse burst damage with overall damage. At my level, I crit as high as 25k with a 2hander obliterate on 0 resilience. Tried the same with dual wield: no dice. The crits were consistently lower. You can notice this mostly in instances. Playing 2handed frost will get you tons of aggro. This is because the burst damage is much higher than as dw, and in pvp you're not gonna kill anything that receives heals, just with high overall damage. |
2h frost = high crits indeed ( just for that ), dw is faster and the dmg flows easier. Imo |
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Edited by Nagaash on 18/12/10 12:48 (GMT)
Yep 25k is a fair bit but ill stick with my 30k oblit crits DW. Also remember you do alot more frost damage aswell with DW aswell because of razorice. Also as people's resilience gets higher it will be alot less about burst and more whos mana runs out quicker and the more damage you can do i guessing the more the healer will have to heal.
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People wont listen to reason.
Its either you are frost or unholy, never seen someone change his mind. The only chance is to beat the hell out of them 10 times in a row in duel. Or to point at a top arena team and its DK's build. These are the only 2 ways to convince people. |
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Also, remember dw build need 3 talent points extra for nerves of cold steel. Are you really sure you don't want those points elsewhere ? |
